George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[m00c0w]

Verb: Pursue in order to catch or catch up with: "police chased the stolen car"; "the dog chased after the stick".

Noun: An act of pursuing someone or something.

Synonyms:
verb. pursue - hunt - follow - run - chevy
noun. hunt - pursuit - hunting - shooting - chasing

This has already been settled. GZ was following TM, and GZ was carrying a gun. That's chasing someone with a gun.

:nono:

Let's take your definition:

Pursue in order to catch or catch up with​

What evidence do we have that Zimmerman's intent was to catch or catch up to Martin? What evidence do we have that he was not following Martin from a distance to see where he was going, and was being completely hands-off until confronted and punched?

What you are stating as "fact" certainly is not so. It is an opinion.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Can any lawyers explain how hearsay works in this instance? And how she's allowed to put out this nonsense testimony about what TM "would have" done, and testifying about sounds (wet grass) she only heard over the phone and could not possibly know for sure? I'm not understanding how this is able to be presented to the jury.

 

[Linda7NJ]

"Chasing" has a completely different connotation than following or watching a person from a distance. It's a more aggressive term, and we have not seen evidence at this point to show he was "chasing" anybody.

IMO

More aggressive than shooting an unarmed teenager?

 

[Moonie]

BBM

It's relevant because it opens the possibility that TM was not in fact, hiding from anyone but circling around to confront GZ.

So TM was scared enough to run (as indicated by testimony and the NEN call), but somehow was also brazen enough to come back and confront the strange man he was scared of? I hope this is elaborated on at some point during this trial. It's just not making sense to me.

 

[lisalei321]

Rachel, you do not know me, but I am sending you positive energy..your keeping it real, jmo

do your thing, be you and tell it like it is..

I am in support of trayvon, his family..may the gods bless them

just sayin

Me and you both!

Sent from my Kindle Fire HD

 

[Arishia]

What's up with the sudden sniffles?

She's crying because the defense is playing on her guilt that she didn't prevent Trayvon's death. In fact, there is nothing she could have done to prevent it, but she's a youngster and she feels guilt and she's still very upset over the whole thing. She's not good at playing word chess, and that's what the defense is doing. I think he's trying to break her now. It's sad. I don't think she deserves this. She isn't saying GZ did anything more than follow.

 

[sacrablue]

In your opinion, of course. Since none of has predictive powers over the mind or actions of anyone else, yes?

If one carries a gun the fear threshold jumps enormously esp if the person is not trained to fight by hand or small in stature.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Considering that we don't know if any of that actually happened, I assume this is speculation.

Just curious, but if TM didn't inflict the injuries how could he have gotten them? I just don't know what people were theorizing on that point. tia

 

[PaintingAnemone]

It doesn't matter, he still lives there if he would of saw a crime, it's not like he's going to look the other way. He wasn't just an average resident, he was part of the NW, he had been conditioned to look to what he percieved as trouble.

No one is saying he should have looked the other way. They're saying he should have done as he was instructed to do (both as a NW volunteer, and by the dispatch). NW does not mean LE. It means watch and report, not watch and engage.

 

[kaRN]

So if someone starts a fight with someone else and that person that initiated the fight winds up dead, it's still the person who pulled the trigger's fault?

If the person they're defending themselves doesn't pull out a gun and aim it at them then in my area of the world and maybe the whole rest of the world, YES. A cop who shot a kid who punched them would be charged too.

 

[legalmania]

The story is he went to the store for the child of dad's girlfriend. Makes no matter really why he went. As far as being a guest it is my understanding he was there because he had been expelled from school -- so it was more than just a happy family visit to meet his new step mommy.

Maybe he wanted to be with his dad. Divorce is very hard on some kids. Children get confused if they are still loved by both parents. I didn't see the step mother refusing him to stay, so it may have been a happy family visit.

 

[Tulessa]

You're welcome to your opinion - we all got 'em. I think when a man is getting his head bashed on concrete it is reasonable for him to see that this may end his life. As for GZ not assisting in giving first aid to TM, you can reference back to my previous sentence: he had his head bashed on concrete, and I believe the cops were onsite quickly afterwards.

We disagree, and that's all good. MOO

Out of curiosity? Has it been PROVEN that TM did indeed bash GZ's head on the sidewalk ? Or is it a possibility that GZ done the head bashing in an effort to conceal his involvement and create a cover story?

 

[katiewonders]

It depends, there have been many cases where justifiable homicide is necessary and many cases where people go to jail. That's why we have trials and a jury system to figure out the facts.

BBM So very well said, and from someone in the biz! Thank you.

 

[Arishia]

Just curious, but if TM didn't inflict the injuries how could he have gotten them? I just don't know what people were theorizing on that point. tia

I don't know how he got those injuries, but my husband is convinced that he gave them to himself as cover. DH is more cynical than me.

 

[Sweet Fox]

Except you seem to be discounting that TM could have been the one defending himself!

Even if TM did all that you said, which I am not in that camp but for argument let's go with it, how do you know that it wasn't TM defending himself from someone following him and trying to detain him...unlawful detainment since he has NO AUTHORITY to do that...then GZ can't be defending himself from someone defending themselves.

It doesn't work that way.

GZ did not say - then or now - that he identified himself as Neighborhood Watch or anything else. So to TM, he literally was some creepy guy following him.

TM had NO IDEA what GZ's intentions were. If GZ didn't tell him, that's on GZ.

And I cannot in anyway excuse him for doing what he did that night that his actions lead to the death of Trayvon Martin.

That's what this case is about for me. His actions lead to the death of another person.

Pure speculation on your part as there is no evidence to support that GZ even attempted to unlawfully detain TM. Although it doesn’t apply here, Florida law does allow for citizen arrest.

I do agree that GZ should have identified himself as Neighborhood Watch but I honestly don’t believe, given TM history and character, there would have been a different outcome.

When you cut through all the minutia, the bottom line is TM imitated the physical confrontation and GZ acted in self defense. And that is that.

MOO

 

[shelley921]

*BBM*

Oh so now you are profiling Polish people?!?!
:floorlaugh:

J/K! But it always struck me as funny that Polish (nationality) and polish (the floors, the furniture) have no distinction in written word.

but in context it makes sense-no?

 

[cityslick]

More aggressive than shooting an unarmed teenager?

If someone takes a knife into a gunfight, who's at fault? The gunfighter or the knife wielder?

GZ having a gun doesn't prove or explain how the confrontation occurred.

 

[corundogs]

It doesn't matter, he still lives there if he would of saw a crime, it's not like he's going to look the other way. He wasn't just an average resident, he was part of the NW, he had been conditioned to look to what he percieved as trouble.

And he was also trained not to follow...to watch and report. He was then told not to follow (semantics if you are going to argue that...IMO)

Yet he did.

He knew the police were on the way, so if the kid was up to no good, they could find him. If he was minding his own business, the officers were either find him and ask him what he was doing or he would be gone.

IMO, he went looking for trouble...and he found it. Now he has to pay the price.

Isn't that what we teach our children? Don't go looking for trouble, and you won't pay the price for said trouble!!!

That is what NW is all about as well. It was not his job and he was not given any legal authority to pursue a suspect - since that's exactly what he did, whether you want to admit that or not. The suspect was a suspect because GZ deemed him as such.

I don't understand this whole "it's not illegal to follow someone you think is doing something suspect with a gun to make sure they don't do anything wrong or hurt our property".

That is NOT YOUR JOB as an everyday citizen. I may think twice about leaving my house ever again if this is what people think is acceptable and they are out there doing the same thing.

And IF you do in fact think that way, I better hope you can explain to the person you are following why you are doing so and hope they understand...or you yourself may find yourself dead!!!!!

George Zimmerman put himself in the situation. Someone is now dead. He now has to pay the consequences.

 

[sacrablue]

He did have it in his holster, it was concealed and he did not pull it out and shoot until he absolutely had to in order to save his life.

JMO

The point is he had a gun at his disposal in case he got in trouble or was losing a fight, then he would use it.

 

[Donnareit]

I have a niece with autism. She functions, for the most part, reasonably well out in the world - but there are things that frustrate her to the breaking point. This witness reminds me of my niece in many ways. Here is a woman going on 20 years of age who will be a senior in high school this fall. Her speech is affected, and she seems on the brink of losing control of herself.

Now I'm not saying the witness is on the autism spectrum, but if she is it might help us understand what "wet grass" sounds like. Her world is very different from ours. Small sounds and white noise go unnoticed by us, but these same sounds can drive an autistic person to distraction. I'm saying that asking the witness to describe what wet grass sounds like is akin to asking the US Supreme court what is *advertiser censored*. The justice couldn't define it, but they knew it when they saw it.
:twocents: