George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Moonie]

But it does in this situation, imo. There was an African American Male in a neighborhood that had been frequently burglarized by African Americans.

Can we all agree to this one point? We may not agree to what happened after this, but I know I would be highly suspicious of some one meeting the description of the person(s) who had burglarized my neighborhood numerous times, and was not a resident in my neighborhood.

I agree with you to a certain extent. I have been a victim of a burgulary before. I can relate to GZ's enhanced alertness to what was going on in his neighborhood. But there is also logic and reason that still needs to be present. He could have rolled his window down and asked TM a few questions that would have caused this whole scenario to play out differently. GZ was the adult in this situation. He needed to have better reasoning skills then the 17 year old kid. No one had to die or be harmed in this situation if he was acting responsibly as he had done in the past with suspicious individuals. This whole situation is just really sad and tragic all the way around.

 

[miimaa]

THen he would have been safely back to his car well before TM ran into him.

He wasn't.

He would have been back in his car before he got off the phone with 911 if he wasn't still looking for him.

I don't know how anyone can refute that as it is evidence that has been presented.

He was walking while on the phone with 911 saying he did know where TM was. The dispatcher asked him if he was following. "Yes" GZ said. Dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that" so GZ said okay and according to his statement was returning to his vehicle when approached from behind by TM.

What evidence has been presented that shows something different happened?

 

[legalmania]

Some people I know would. :floorlaugh:

Like my nieces boyfriend.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

With all due respect that is racial profiling. I'm sorry if you don't see that. Any black male in that neighborhood would be suspicious. That is the essence of racial profiling.


He wasn't purple and could not be purple. However lets use your example, if a purple male was committing robberies in the area, and your are saying all purple males you may see in the neighborhood are suspicious that is racial profiling.


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JMO
but racial profiling would be seeing an AA male out and assuming he is up to no good simply because he is AA and a male.

In this particular case it wasn't racial profiling it was fitting the description of recent suspects. If those suspects had been white then he would not have fit and would not have been deemed suspicious.
jmo

 

[sacrablue]

I don't have a gun, so I'm curious. How do you have a concealed "hidden" weapon when you're wearing it in a holster on your hip?

You need to cover the gun with some apparel so it is not exposed to the public.

 

[TXN4LIFE]

I volunteer at a high school. I can tell you being around teenagers all day, I can see why RJ thinks Treyvon would have told her he was going to confront the guy. I can actually hear him saying something to the effect of "I'm gonna take care of this ***" or something to that effect. He has been telling her to that point what was going on, why would it be hard to believe he would tell her he was going to take care of the guy?

I do believe they got into a fight, I'm not positive who started it. I think, IMO ONLY, that maybe George did confront him, possibly tried to grab him and a fight insued.

 

[Melanie]

All I can say is thank goodness I'm not on that jury. I still don't have a solid grasp on the evidence either way. Flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop! If this is the State's star witness, they could be in trouble. She's coming across as rude, irritated, etc. OTOH, I understand she doesn't want to be there, and probably believes she brings little to this case. Oh, this is so frustrating to me. All MOO.

Mel

 

[m00c0w]

If the person they're defending themselves doesn't pull out a gun and aim it at them then in my area of the world and maybe the whole rest of the world, YES. A cop who shot a kid who punched them would be charged too.

In your neck of the world a person can't have a pistol, period, without a special permit that's not easy to obtain... If you do live in Toronto... So I'm not sure how that's comparable.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

She's crying because the defense is playing on her guilt that she didn't prevent Trayvon's death. In fact, there is nothing she could have done to prevent it, but she's a youngster and she feels guilt and she's still very upset over the whole thing. She's not good at playing word chess, and that's what the defense is doing. I think he's trying to break her now. It's sad. I don't think she deserves this. She isn't saying GZ did anything more than follow.

Imo this isn't chess, it's extremely, extremely simple stuff. I hope he continues to impeach this angry, dishonest woman. jmo

 

[daisy7]

Holsters can go in more places and are made for more places than openly on your hip.

Could be, but it was holstered on GZ's hip.

 

[popsicle]

George Zimmerman put himself in the situation. Someone is now dead. He now has to pay the consequences.

IMO That smacks of a rape victim asking for it.

 

[iluvmua]

The point is he had a gun at his disposal in case he got in trouble or was losing a fight, then he would use it.

He was losing a fight, A fight that would have most certainly ended in serious injury for him or death.

This is pretty clear.

He only used his gun to save his life. IMO

 

[PaintingAnemone]

:nono:

Let's take your definition:

Pursue in order to catch or catch up with​

What evidence do we have that Zimmerman's intent was to catch or catch up to Martin? What evidence do we have that he was not following Martin from a distance to see where he was going, and was being completely hands-off until confronted and punched?

What you are stating as "fact" certainly is not so. It is an opinion.

Well, you're obviously ignoring the fact that it doesn't have to mean he intended to catch up. The definition also clearly says "An act of pursuing someone or something." That includes any act of pursuing someone or something.

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.

So we've already ascertained that Zimmerman was actively following him (with a gun).

As for speculation, given that he was following a young man who was running (or so GZ says in the audio), and the wind noise described by the operator, it's a fairly safe guess, imo, that Zimmerman took off running to catch up. Later GZ told Hannity that Trayvon was "skipping" but not actually running, but I'm going to go with running since that's what on the tape. That's my speculation. The chasing part is a fact.

 

[Tulessa]

Two of our sleuthers need to do a wet grass test over the phone!

I would, but still recuperating from a broken ankle.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Out of curiosity? Has it been PROVEN that TM did indeed bash GZ's head on the sidewalk ? Or is it a possibility that GZ done the head bashing in an effort to conceal his involvement and create a cover story?

What I found odd was that during the interview GZ gave on camera to re-create the scene, he had all these little bandaids on his face and head. I have a feeling that those were to aid in his defense not to aid in the injury.

I know this is going to make some mad, but that's just my opinion.

 

[m00c0w]

I was also thinking that since it was raining he could have very easily slipped and fell. Which I have done a few time myself.

And again, I ask:

So, he fell on the back and front and all sides of his head? How is that physically possible?

 

[corundogs]

I agree with you, he made a dumb decision to get out of his car. It still doesn't prove he purposely tried to gun the kid down.

And many - dare I say most? - of us don't believe that either.

Which is why this isn't a capital case.

I am not even convinced it's 2nd Degree.

I do however feel VERY STRONGLY it's at least manslaughter.

I have said I think he should get 10 years. If he gets 5, so be it. I would like to say 20 and 10...but I know our justice system.

If he gets less than 5 years, IMO, justice is not served in this case.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Two of our sleuthers need to do a wet grass test over the phone!

I was thinking the same thing, Snoods!

I remember all the experiments during the Ant trial.

 

[cityslick]

No doubt in my mind.

Someone is going to have to explain this when as soon as he shot him he had witnesses (including LE) all around him.

 

[Arishia]

He punched himself in the nose? Don't think so. Both guys were wrong that night. Unfortunately, one had a gun.

Lol.. I know! But he's convinced himself of that. Don't worry, he's never been on jury duty and isn't in a position of authority except in his own home.
ETA: I don't agree that Trayvon was "wrong" as there isn't any evidence of that yet. I have my own theory of the case that's more along the lines of a series of small errors in judgement coupled with an inflated sense of abilities on the part of GZ. Whether that "accident chain" rises to second degree murder is up to this jury. IMHO