George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread #8

[ShadyLady]

So, about George's remorse or lack of it.

I feel great horror if I accidentally harm someone - and it would ruin my life to accidentally run over someone, or accidentally poison them, whatever.

I don't know how much remorse I'd feel if I were attacked and beaten, and shot the assailant and then my life was instantly ruined by an angry mob of a public that was calling for my death.

I don't think I'd have a heck of a lot of remorse for doing it, and wouldn't feel that sorry - and wouldn't be inclined to cry through an interview over the incident.

I'd be mad, frankly. IMHO, of course.

And George, in spite of that----did go on TV and apologize for the loss to directly to the parents. I don't see in Zimmerman the attitude displayed by say.....Jodi. He does not come across as arrogant or self righteous, etc. But, serious and sad.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hello, is Court in session today? I can not find a live link. thank you

Welcome to websleuths!
Here is a good link to view the proceedings:

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html

 

[DIBSY]

Although there certainly have been people in the past who have injured themselves to get out of a crime, I just do not see that in this case. It all happened too fast and again you have the problem of the witnesses. At that point in the incident, there were too many people watching to chance that. But more importantly, it is again speculation. There is no proof that he punched himself.

Oh please, don't take me wrong...I am not neccessarily arguing that it transpired, but that even the ME said it was possible.

That said, several of us have thought GZ MAY have gotten the minor scratches on the back of his head by falling down in his haste to catch up with TM.

At least one of the witnesses, Salma Mora saw GZ on top of TM when the shot went off....she described the jacket worn by GZ. Jane S. the first witness, said the cries for help were from a boy....the just turned 17 year old boy TM. I know of nothing GZ reported that has been verified by anyone to any degree....even his pal John Good thought the scuffle on the ground was between dogs, not people. IMO

IMO

 

[tpatte021]

IMO - West is as slow as Nurmi

 

[gxm]

When I was in high school, I was at a house party and some of the kids got in to a fight outside in the driveway. It was pavement. One of the kids got his head slammed on to the pavement and died. My friends and I who were inside didn't even know this fight took place that night. And his friends didn't know he was dying, just thought he was injured. They put him in their car and drove him home to his parents house and he died there. Needless to say, it was pretty horrific and terribly sad. And the other kid from the fight went to jail for it.

So when I hear head on pavement - yes I immediately think serious danger! It's no joke. It is a weapon. I would be terrified if somebody put my head anywhere near pavement, even once. Once was all it took for that poor kid many years ago.

The reality is that we don't know how far George's head was from the ground when Trayvon allegedly pushed it... if he was only an inch or two off the ground, maybe that is why the injury doesn't look as extreme. But it could have easily elicited panic from George. We know from John Good that it started on the grass and worked it's way up to the concrete. So George was likely low to the ground.

Thank you for sharing your experience. My heart goes out to you. That's something you can never forget. I was attacked in a similar manner as GZ. It's terrifying. Assaults that involve head trauma should never be minimized IMO.

 

[sorrell skye]

I call BS on this witness, regarding this portion of testimony. One would expect to find the "owner's" DNA underneath that person's fingernails. We all scratch ourselves. We all have our own DNA underneath our fingernails.

 

[popsicle]

Just lurking and learning...

You guys are doing a great job!

Quick question, Does anyone know how long LE arrived after the shot was fired? TIA

Very soon after...I think within 30 sec. jmo

 

[Karmady]

Tracy Martin originally said it wasn't his son on the tape either. I think both sets of parents testimonies will zero each other out on this issue.

Trayvon's brother also said he couldn't say for sure. jmo

 

[JeannaT]

BS on this witness. One would expect to find the DNA of a person underneath that person's fingernails. We all scratch ourselves. We all have our own DNA underneath our fingernails.

I think that's the point West is trying to make - of course there should be some of your own DNA under your fingernails at the end of a day, unless you just thoroughly washed your hands and clipped your nails.

What's glaring is, none was FOUND. I think he's going in the direction that you guys didn't even get Trayvon's DNA from his fingernails - it's not a surprise that you also missed George's. Or anyway, that's where he seems to be going.

IMHO

 

[shragae]

Here is my scenario of "what happened" -- and I have no idea if this would be self-defense, murder or manslaughter.

GZ was a wannabe cop. He was mad that so many robberies had been happening in his neighborhood. He also wanted to be a "hero."

He is on his way to Target wearing a loaded gun, looking for trouble (in the sense that he was watching for anything suspicious).

He sees TM. For whatever reason he thinks TM is suspicious. He follow him and calls NEN.

Even though NEN says not to follow TM, GZ doesn't want TM to "get away" because those "*advertiser censored** always get away."

He follows TM.

TM gets away from him a few times and he gets angrier, because he wants to impress the cops by being able to tell them where TM is -- or even holding him.

Either GZ catches up to TM (or TM turns around and says "why are you following me?"

An argument ensues (GZ doesn't admit this, but the neighbors all say they heard shouting). Either TM tries to leave and GZ grabs him, or TM pushes at GZ -- they begin a shoving match and begin struggling.

GZ panics. Even though he wanted to "catch" TM it is now TM who has caught him. TM is winning the fight and in a panic GZ shoots him, killing him.

I still think GZ is at fault. If he had just called the cops and gone on to Target nothing would have happened. I think GZ has colored his story -- but that doesn't necessarily make him a murderer, just an idiot.

Again this is MHO, and my scenario. If I were on the jury I don't know if I'd find him guilty of a crime until I heard the legal instructions from the judge.

:twocents:

 

[ShadyLady]

Oh please, don't take me wrong...I am not neccessarily arguing that it transpired, but that even the ME said it was possible.

That said, several of us have thought GZ MAY have gotten the minor scratches on the back of his head by falling down in his haste to catch up with TM.

At least one of the witnesses, Salma Mora saw GZ on top of TM when the shot went off....she described the jacket worn by GZ. Jane S. the first witness, said the cries for help were from a boy....the just turned 17 year old boy TM. I know of nothing GZ reported that has been verified by anyone to any degree....even his pal John Good thought the scuffle on the ground was between dogs, not people. IMO

IMO

....she saw Zimmerman on top AFTER the gun shot. Major point. Let keep evidence straight. And Trayvon's father said it was not his son's voice to LE. He should know.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh please, don't take me wrong...I am not neccessarily arguing that it transpired, but that even the ME said it was possible.

That said, several of us have thought GZ MAY have gotten the minor scratches on the back of his head by falling down in his haste to catch up with TM.

At least one of the witnesses, Salma Mora saw GZ on top of TM when the shot went off....she described the jacket worn by GZ. Jane S. the first witness, said the cries for help were from a boy....the just turned 17 year old boy TM. I know of nothing GZ reported that has been verified by anyone to any degree....even his pal John Good thought the scuffle on the ground was between dogs, not people. IMO

IMO

"Neighbor Selma Mora testified Thursday "that after she heard what she now believes was a gunshot, she rushed outside and saw the man who survived the fight on his knees straddling Trayvon," according to The Orlando Sentinel. "That man then stood up and began pacing, she said.” "



She saw nothing until after the shot.. AT that time GZ was most likely on top as he testified to..


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-mark-o-mara

 

[DIBSY]

Just lurking and learning...

You guys are doing a great job!

Quick question, Does anyone know how long LE arrived after the shot was fired? TIA

Welcome here, 2door73chevy !! From 7 to 10 minutes I think, haven't got a link at the moment. IMO There is court testimony to the time.

 

[lisasalinger]

Oh please, don't take me wrong...I am not neccessarily arguing that it transpired, but that even the ME said it was possible.

That said, several of us have thought GZ MAY have gotten the minor scratches on the back of his head by falling down in his haste to catch up with TM.

At least one of the witnesses, Salma Mora saw GZ on top of TM when the shot went off....she described the jacket worn by GZ. Jane S. the first witness, said the cries for help were from a boy....the just turned 17 year old boy TM. I know of nothing GZ reported that has been verified by anyone to any degree....even his pal John Good thought the scuffle on the ground was between dogs, not people. IMO

IMO

BBM

The reason why I give so much credence to Good's account is that he was the closest to the incident. They were literally within feet of his porch. Yes he initially thought maybe it was an animal but he then states that as they repositioned he could see better and could tell it was two people. He even identified clothing. I have no reason not to believe him.

I also have no reason not to believe the other neighbors. I just give more credence to Good because he had the closest view.

IMO

 

[sacrablue]

That was another part of the Hannity interview that bothered me. GZ didn't have any empathy for the victim's family and no remorse that things could have been done differently. Honestly, I changed my mind about GZ after that. Just my opinion.

That is the acid test. The word is compassion. If you have no compassion for a teenager you are a waste of oxygen IMO. This lack of empathy is a tell all. No good heavens what have I done. Just listen to the dying gasps and walk away. Unbelievable.

 

[DIBSY]

....she saw Zimmerman on top AFTER the gun shot. Major point. Let keep evidence straight. And Trayvon's father said it was not his son's voice to LE. He should know.

Point taken....but the sequence she gave places GZ on top and I do not believe his story..that's why I inserted IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That is the acid test. The word is compassion. If you have no compassion for a teenager you are a waste of oxygen IMO. This lack of empathy is a tell all. No good heavens what have I done. Just listen to the dying gasps and walk away. Unbelievable.

Nothing to do with facts in evidence. Just emotion.

We try people and convict based on evidence that they committed a crime not how they feel about it after wards.

I would never assume that someone was not mournful. Some people mourn or only show sadness in private.

OMO

 

[JeannaT]

West is about to do a major "gotcha"

IMHO of course.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Point taken....but the sequence she gave places GZ on top and I do not believe his story..that's why I inserted IMO.

She places him on top AFTER the shot and then after she ran out. He places himself on top after the shot so that fits with his account..

Whether you believe him or not is your choice but it certainly fits with his account..

OMO

 

[DIBSY]

BBM. He also told them he thought Trayvon was older, which was a lie as he correctly ID'd TM's age on the NEN call.

Thank you !I don't think there's any end to GZ's litany of lies. IMO