George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread 9 (For Friday)

[Chester_from_THM]

This is so weird!

 

[JeannaT]

Ooh, I know now where he's going. The sweatshirt was packed in plastic, we all know.

The ME doesn't know that. Wild to sit here and know something the ME doesn't know.

Hmm. IMHO

 

[robmom]

The story of the GZ grabbing the gun is problematic. Where was TM supposed to be sitting on him that he could slide his hand down his body? His thighs? He'd be bucked off in a hot second. Cannot wait to here GZ testify as to all the details of all the versions he has told. IMHO, he should be compelled to testify.

Oh, ok. Thank you. I wasn't even thinking about where he was sitting, I was just thinking they were trying to prove they weren't sitting. But I see it now. Thank you.

 

[Donnareit]

IMO TM probably was alive still when the police arrived. Does anyone know if it is policy to perform CPR on a corpse? What time does the death certificate show? Very sad to think of him laying there in the rain while GZ and the neighbor who had a flashlight are busy taking pictures of GZ's head.

 

[JeannaT]

OUCH I just heard an audible gasp when he said someone sealing it in plastic would be fired.

 

[popsicle]

oh boy.... re plastic bags vs paper bags!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Okay.. He is helping the DEF.. now with bagging clothing evidence...

OMO

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

Ooh, I know now where he's going. The sweatshirt was packed in plastic, we all know.

The ME doesn't know that. Wild to sit here and know something the ME doesn't know.

Hmm. IMHO

I'm glad someone knows where he is going, this is one big circle jerk to me! :banghead:

 

[missmazzy]

The story of the GZ grabbing the gun is problematic. Where was TM supposed to be sitting on him that he could slide his hand down his body? His thighs? He'd be bucked off in a hot second. Cannot wait to here GZ testify as to all the details of all the versions he has told. IMHO, he should be compelled to testify.

Fortunately, in this country, a defendant can't be compelled to testify. If we don't like the law, we change the law (or in this case, the 5th amendment).

 

[katiecoolady]

How does having marijuana in ones system "indicate" that they would or would not start a confrontation IYO???

The only thing that would indicate to me is they would have more of a propensity to dig through their all spare change to try and get something out of a vending machine.

Not from personal experience or anything. :blushing:

 

[?noanswer]

He is adamant about clothes being placed in paper bag. IIRC, another witness stated it was placed in a plastic bag and then in a paper bag.


JMO

 

[TexMex]

Could someone answer a question for me? What is the significance of trying to prove if the gunshot was contact or more inches away? Is it trying to prove they were standing?

I just honestly don't understand and have been wondering.

IMO

This interview helped me understand it:


DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, I do.

GRACE: Explain.

ARNALL: There is a cone of powder and soot that comes out of a gun when it`s fired. If the T-shirt and the sweatshirt that do have holes in them were adjacent to the skin when the gun was discharged, the soot and powder particles would be screened off of the body by the fabric. What they`re saying is, that because there is stippling, that is to say, powder particles in a little two-inch by two-inch pattern around the hole --

GRACE: Yes.

ARNALL: -- then the fabric could not have been against the skin at the time the gun was discharged, but that the fabric must have been lying against the barrel of the gun when it was discharged, so that expanding cone of powder and particles put impact upon the skin. They`re saying that that had to have been the two or three or four inches away from the skin to cause that stippling pattern that you have seen on the autopsy.

GRACE: Got it. Dr. Michael Arnall, do you agree with the theory?

ARNALL: When I first read the autopsy report, I couldn`t -- I figured the doctor must have made a mistake because you can`t get stippling through the fabric. When I understood what they`re arguing, I believe that`s the only possible explanation for finding that stippling pattern against the skin.

GRACE: And that explanation is what, Dr. Arnall?

ARNALL: That the fabric must have been two or three or four inches off of the skin when the gun was discharged. And they`re arguing that the only reason the fabric would be off of the skin would be if the individual was on top, and the fabric was passively away from the skin because of gravity.

GRACE: And Dr. Arnall, would you get the same result if Trayvon Martin had been on the bottom, and in the fight, the grappling back and forth, the hoodie was lifted up off the skin at the time of the gunshot wound? That way the skin would not be touching the hoodie -- although the victim would be on the bottom?

ARNALL: It would have to be both the hoodie and the T-shirt underneath. Both those pieces of fabric.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/27/ng.01.html

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

"I don't believe anyone can remember anything from two years ago"

That's a pretty blanket statement IMO

 

[PaperDoll]

But that does not support murder2 charges on GZ. All we see so far is a tragic meeting that resulted in a death. Not a plan to hurt or kill, Not a hunt and destroy mission..

I don't have any reason yet to believe that GZ's account is not true and in fact it has been backed up by a lot of state witness testimony.

Ignore him? A big guy jumping from the dark at you and you ignore him and walk away?

GZ said he reached for his phone to call Police back and was punched. He has a wound that shows that. He said that TM had him on the ground and was beating his head into the ground. There is marks and injuries to support that.

So far the state has not proven to me any thing different than GZ's account. They have to prove that he committed murder. I have been waiting to have it proven to me. They have not reached that for me. OMO

I agree about the sentencing, I do not believe GZ is a murder nor do I believe he went out to kill anyone that night. This is where I'm struggling, I'm not sure what sentence to give him, if any. HOWEVER, this all happened because of him and a young man who simply was walking to the store ends up dead???????? All because of GZ, not the other way around. GZ's actions created all this, IMO.. He would not have had to defend himself had he also stayed in his car, HE KNEW TO DO THAT BUT HE DIDN'T. Good grief, you don't go chasing a "suspect" if you are not a police officer, nor do you chase him if he's NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. TM was doing NOTHING wrong except in GZ's own head. All this happened because of GZ. :twocents: TM can't speak for himself, he's dead. He has a story to tell but GZ is doing all the talking and defending here. :twocents:

 

[popsicle]

IMO TM probably was alive still when the police arrived. Does anyone know if it is policy to perform CPR on a corpse? What time does the death certificate show? Very sad to think of him laying there in the rain while GZ and the neighbor who had a flashlight are busy taking pictures of GZ's head.

It is fact that you don't perform cpr on a living person.

 

[William N]

First of all, it's none of GZ's business (IMO) why TM ran or why he's in the neighborhood, (he called in the report and he should have left it at that) GZ KNEW to not follow the "suspect", but he did. TM was doing nothing wrong at all, NOTHING, but was suspicious of this "creepy" guy watching him/following him. Maybe TM didn't feel all that threatened until GZ and him got face to face and GZ decides to fumble around looking for his phone which could have given TM concerns he may have a gun, in which we know he did. This whole incident is all because GZ ASSUMED. GZ started and ended this whole thing. TM, IMO didn't.:twocents:

IMO TM went back and started the confrontation. GZ wasn't following TM at that point.

 

[callyn]

ME was apparently in a blackout on the day of autopsy? This is unbelievable. He says he has absolutely no memory of that autopsy. I find this extremely difficult to believe. IMO

 

[Donnareit]

How can a witness testify and say what he is saying "is not fact", but opinion?

JMO

Because he is an "expert witness," his opinions count. IMO (and also based on what I learned in the Arias trial)

 

[cinsbythesea]

This testimony is giving me a headache. I sense the judge is probably on the verge of one herself!

 

[iluvmua]

I highly doubt this judge will throw out this case........