Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Madeleine74]

JMO-I'm sure there are lots of opinions. I see him as a sociopath who opted for (alleged) mass murder.
The "suicide" isn't a blip on my radar.

Possibly. A mass murderer who was more than okay with taking himself out as part of that murder plot. Murder/Suicide.

 

[CARIIS]

cops at his house - he also had an apt.

flight club post before learning it was on purpose I would suppose !

As a youth, Andreas became a member of the club, he wanted to see his dream of flying fulfilled. He started as a gliding student and managed to become a pilot of the Airbus A320. He succeeded in fulfilling his dream, a dream that he paid for with his life. The members of LSC Westerwald are grieving for Andreas and all the other 149 victims of the catastrophe of March 24, 2015. Our deepest condolences to the relatives. We will not forget Andrea

member Peter Ruecker told the AP that Lubitz had a girlfriend. He added that Lubitz visited the club last fall to renew his glider’s license and “He seemed very enthusiastic … I can’t remember anything where something wasn’t right.”

Lubitz possessed a United States FAA-issued private pilot’s license, issued in 2012. The U.S. FAA also issued Lubitz a student license in 2010.

A 2013 article in the Aviation Business Gazette praised Lubitz as a pilot who “sets [a] positive example.


.heavy.com/news/2015/03/andreas-lubitz-copilot-germanwings-flight-4u9525-plane-crash-french-alps/

 

[Gin]

So should bonus's be offered to land the plane safely. wth

We should remember that there are so very many good and honest pilots, flight attendants and ground crew that are employed by airlines around the world. They wake up every day and work hard to make it a safe flying day. Their quiet dedication is so appreciated.

 

[mysteriew]

So basically the plane was headed for the mountains, there probably wouldnt have been seat belt signs. And the O2 mask may or may not have come down. There would have been little to draw the passengers attention to the emergency other than the pilot attempting and failing to gain entry to the cabin.

 

[keeponsearching]

When I fly I have a hard time hearing the person sitting next to me. It makes me think that maybe passengers didn't notice or hear the captain banging on the door, since there were things in between. Then they didn't notice before the crash. So very sad I've talked to multiple people and no one even listens to the news. This is horrifying news for me.

Yesterday someone on here posted a link, and about a person seeing a fighter jet near the airplane before the crash, did it happen or just rumors? Is there anyway for the Captain to contact headquarters outside the cockpit?

 

[Madeleine74]

No doubt now that he wasn't normal, but that is what is so scary. Someone can SEEM perfectly normal, then in a span of less than 10 minutes become a mass murderer. It's terrifying.

I can't help but wonder what his parents are thinking. To know the little face you kissed as a baby and raised and adored did something so heinous. I truly feel for them, because, I doubt they raised their child to become this person we are learning about today.

I imagine they're feeling similar things to what Dylan Kliebold and Eric Harris' parents felt when their sons killed so many fellow students, or what Jeffrey Dahmer's parents felt, or what Adam Lanza's father felt (and feels). I doubt any parent ever imagines their child growing up to be a mass or serial murderer; it's incomprehensible. People always think the most evil people will somehow look like a rabid drooling monster and that is not true. They look like the average person on the outside and that's what's so disconcerting.

 

[gregjrichards]

So basically the plane was headed for the mountains, there probably wouldnt have been seat belt signs. And the O2 mask may or may not have come down. There would have been little to draw the passengers attention to the emergency other than the pilot attempting and failing to gain entry to the cabin.

I don't know if I am right but I think the oxygen masks would have come down when the plane dropped such an altitude.

 

[AliceInPain]

Yes, exactly.

If you read about how the planes during 9/11 were taken over, you'll learn that each plane had at least 2 men who took over the cockpit and directly controlled each plane, aiming their plane into the assigned target. Only 1 plane didn't reach it's target -- that plane crashed in Shanksville, PA, instead of making it to Washington DC, when passengers stormed the cockpit to try and overtake the hijackers.

Changes to plane cockpit doors were made to ensure no one could access the cockpit. All cockpit doors are locked prior to takeoff. However what it doesn't prevent is one cray-cray pilot locking out everyone else, including the other pilot and crew, to then destroy the plane.

This needs to change. I don't know how but what someone mentioned above sounds at least resonable, that (in the US) another member of staff sits in for anyone leaving the cockpit.
I just can't understand in this day and age and with everything evil going on anyone, however seemingly reliable, would be allowed alone to care for 150 people.

 

[Madeleine74]

So basically the plane was headed for the mountains, there probably wouldnt have been seat belt signs. And the O2 mask may or may not have come down. There would have been little to draw the passengers attention to the emergency other than the pilot attempting and failing to gain entry to the cabin.

Allegedly some passengers and possibly many passengers, say, in the first 8 to 10 rows would have been aware that something was amiss regarding the pilot trying to get back into the cockpit. Most people watch other people in front of them and get their clues that way.

The seatbelt sign might have been on already, depending if there was any turbulence or even light chop. Some pilots leave the sign on much of the time (at least on the flights I've been on), others turn it off and on as needed. There's no hard and fast rule about that.

The O2 masks would not have dropped as there was no rapid decompression event.

Those who are more aware about flight practices might have noted it was too soon for the plane to be descending since there was still at least another 45 min or so to arrival, and descent usually begins about 20 to 25 min before landing. That's when the seat belt signs are typically turned on, the flight attendants start their cleanup procedures, etc, etc.

There are other normal sounds that occur as part of a plane being prepared for landing. Flaps on the wings are changed, the engine slows down and finally the landing gear is employed, all of which is plainly obvious to passengers.

In this case the copilot did not communicate at all with anyone at any time. He did not make any announcements, he did not say anything to the passengers. In the 8 to 10 min he had to himself, he descended the plane to around 6,000 ft, and flew right into the mountain, with no explanation, no warning, at full speed, no preparations for landing, etc.

<shudder>

 

[CARIIS]

[h=1]Article:

Aviation Business Gazette[/h]

​

Updated September 18, 2013, 11:01 a.m. ET


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is recognizing Andreas Guenter Lubitz with inclusion in the prestigious FAA Airmen Certification Database.
The database, which appears on the agency's website at www.faa.gov, names Lubitz and other certified pilots who have met or exceeded the high educational, licensing and medical standards established by the FAA.

[h=2]FAA recognizes Andreas Guenter Lubitz[/h] Rheinland Pfalz-based pilot sets positive example



The FAA offers a variety of pilots licenses and certificates, each with a different set of privileges. These levels include Student, Recreational, Sport, Private, Commercial And Airline Transport Pilot.

Pilots with a student pilot certification are not permitted to fly solo and are barred from carrying passengers. Sport pilot certificate holders can not carry more than one passenger and are permitted to only fly light-sport aircraft during the daytime.
The highest level of certification is the Airline Transport Pilot Certificate (ATP), which is required to fly a commercial airliner.
To obtain Airline Transport Pilot Certificate, pilots must possess a commercial pilot license, have more than 1500 hours of experience in aircraft and be at least 21 years old. However, pilots with an aviation degree can qualify for the certificate with just 1,000 hours.
Pilots obtaining an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate must also pass an exam covering air law, general aircraft knowledge, flight planning, meteorology, navigation, instrumentation and other important topics.
Pilots are required to pass a physical examination administered by a FAA-authorized medical examiner.
There are a number of medical conditions that the FAA considers disqualifying, such as Bipolar disease, cardiac valve replacement, coronary heart disease, diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications, disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of cause, epilepsy, heart replacement, Myocardial infarction, permanent cardiac pacemaker, personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts, psychosis, substance abuse, substance dependence, transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
Pilots are required to report to the FAA's Security and Investigations Division any alcohol-related vehicle actions, such as an arrest, administrative action, driver license suspension.
The FAA has reason to be concerned in general about alcohol use by pilots.

http://aviation-business-gazette.com/A44/B58/Pilot-Andreas-Guenter-Lubitz-Rheinland-Pfalz-.html

 

[gregjrichards]

When I fly I have a hard time hearing the person sitting next to me. It makes me think that maybe passengers didn't notice or hear the captain banging on the door, since there were things in between. Then they didn't notice before the crash. So very sad I've talked to multiple people and no one even listens to the news. This is horrifying news for me.

Yesterday someone on here posted a link, and about a person seeing a fighter jet near the airplane before the crash, did it happen or just rumors? Is there anyway for the Captain to contact headquarters outside the cockpit?

I read that the people on the ground said the plane sounded like a fighter jet when it was getting near the mountain.

This article states the French Air Force scrambled a fighter jet but it was too late and they didn't spot the wreckage.

"Officials confirmed to NBC News that the French air force had scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact on Tuesday, but the jet arrived too late and didn't spot the wreckage."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ge...0-crash-damaged-black-box-taken-paris-n329711

 

[Elley Mae]

When I fly I have a hard time hearing the person sitting next to me. It makes me think that maybe passengers didn't notice or hear the captain banging on the door, since there were things in between. Then they didn't notice before the crash. So very sad I've talked to multiple people and no one even listens to the news. This is horrifying news for me.

Yesterday someone on here posted a link, and about a person seeing a fighter jet near the airplane before the crash, did it happen or just rumors? Is there anyway for the Captain to contact headquarters outside the cockpit?

France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help.

http://www.saratogian.com/general-n...ance-scrambled-fighter-jet-before-plane-crash

 

[atthelake]

Zwiebel, thanks as always for keeping us up to date :blowkiss: as you have on so MANY events for us here at WS

:thinking: What is the avatar name for the aviator who helped us out previously on crashes? :thinking:

 

[Plumeria5]

Do you we have any pictures yet of Captain Sonderheimer? I think he deserves some honor on our thread. He died trying to save his crew and passengers. What a helpless feeling for him!

http://heavy.com/news/2015/03/patri...ed-out-cockpit-name-family-experience-german/

 

[gregjrichards]

This needs to change. I don't know how but what someone mentioned above sounds at least resonable, that (in the US) another member of staff sits in for anyone leaving the cockpit.
I just can't understand in this day and age and with everything evil going on anyone, however seemingly reliable, would be allowed alone to care for 150 people.

I understand in the USA a member of the cabin crew sits in if the pilot or co-pilot leave the cockpit. However I think realistically there would be little they could do if the pilot or co-pilot were intentionally crashing the plane.

 

[Gin]

Allegedly some passengers and possibly many passengers, say, in the first 8 to 10 rows would have been aware that something was amiss regarding the pilot trying to get back into the cockpit. Most people watch other people in front of them and get their clues that way. The seatbelt sign might have been on, depending if there was any turbulence or even light chop. Some pilots leave the sign on much of the time (at least on the flights I've been on), others turn it off and on as needed. There's no hard and fast rule about that. The O2 masks would not have dropped as there was no rapid decompression event. Those who are more aware about flight practices might have noted it was too soon for the plane to be descending since there was still at least another 45 min or so to arrival, and descent usually begins about 20 to 25 min out.

JMO-I would think that there were passengers that were aware. Very frequent flyers as well as folks that have served in the military would be two groups that first come to mind. Both groups would be reasonably aware of what is pretty usual during a flight. They would also be able to identify a real world serious emergency after few minutes, a pilot desperately struggling with the cockpit door is NOT NORMAL.
And I am certain those two groups would offer any and all help they could to their captain. Other passengers I feel would also step up in whatever capacity possible. They would understand they are all in this together.

 

[gregjrichards]

Do you we have any pictures yet of Captain Sonderheimer? I think he deserves some honor on our thread. He died trying to save his crew and passengers. What a helpless feeling for him!

http://heavy.com/news/2015/03/patri...ed-out-cockpit-name-family-experience-german/

I haven't seen any yet I have been looking and there isn't much information about him online. The man died a hero trying to save the passengers, crew and himself.

 

[Madeleine74]

I understand in the USA a member of the cabin crew sits in if the pilot or co-pilot leave the cockpit. However I think realistically there would be little they could do if the pilot or co-pilot were intentionally crashing the plane.

It's not so much about them controlling the plane as making sure there isn't only 1 person in the cockpit who can then lock out the other pilot, as happened here, or leaving the lone pilot alone where someone else could possibly try to enter the cockpit. It's obviously done for safety, but why it wasn't protocol on Lufthansa, who knows. It should change, at a minimum.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid bits:

family escorts

A neighbour of Lubitz told Germany&#8217;s daily newspaper Bild that he hadn&#8217;t known the co-pilot, but had seen him when he was out jogging.
&#8220;He always seemed very polite and always said hello and I said hello back, but we never got into a conversation,&#8221; he said.

Asked about Lubitz&#8217;s family, the neighbor said there wasn&#8217;t a strong sense of neighbourliness in the area. However, he added that he refused to believe the news before it was proven 100 percent. &#8220;I can&#8217;t believe that anyone would have the heart to commit such a selfish act.&#8221;

Lubitz&#8217;s now-deleted Facebook suggests that he was an average enough young man &#8211; interested in flying and gadgets, as befits a pilot, as well as electronic music, discos and ten-pin bowling.
He liked include Lufthansa and LFT Bremen, one of five Lufthansa facilities around the world offering pilot training, and linked to the airbus A320 technical site and to Beechcraft Bonanza, a page dedicated to an American six-seater light aircraft. There is a mention of Alexander Gerst, the German astronaut who last year blasted off to the international space station.

Much of Lubitz&#8217;s social life appears to have taken place in the nearby city of Koblenz. There are links to a climbing wall located in a forest, a Burger King branch, a local bowling alley, Pinup, and one of Koblenz&#8217;s nightclub&#8217;s, the Agostea Nachtarena. Lubitz hints that his favourite music acts is Paul Kalkbrenner, a German electronic producer, and David Guetta, a French DJ turned record producer.

The pilot also appears to have had a sense of humour. One website on Lubitz&#8217;s Facebook profile is &#8220;Wenn Männer Allein Sind&#8221; or &#8220;When Men are Alone&#8221; &#8211; not a place for lonely singles but a humorous website which includes videos of men fooling about with chainsaws on frozen lakes, or haplessly looking after babies.

This sounds like confidentiality stuff:
Lufthansa revealed that Lubitz&#8217;s training in 2009 had been briefly interrupted, but was resumed after &#8220;his suitability as a candidate was re-established&#8221;. Asked about the reason for the interruption, the CEO, Carsten Spohr, said he was not allowed to say.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...tigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525

flying for Germanwings since September 2013 after being trained with the airline&#8217;s parent company, Lufthansa, in Bremen.

Lubitz had started training in 2008 &#8211; first working as a flight attendant &#8211; and there was nothing unusual in the results of his training, but acknowledged there had been a gap without saying what had caused it.

He began in the gliding school and made it to become a pilot,&#8221;

Neighbours described Lubitz as a friendly man pursuing his dreams &#8220;with vigour&#8221;. One told the local newspaper, the Rhein-Zeitung, that Lubitz had kept fit through running: &#8220;How often we saw him jogging past our house.&#8221;

They will also be interviewing pilots he has flown with over the last few weeks to see if there is anything about his behaviour, attitude or professional conduct that could be potentially relevant here,&#8221; Bor said.

&#8220;During the first 20 minutes, the pilots talk normally,&#8221; Mr. Robin said, saying they spoke in a &#8220;cheerful&#8221; and &#8220;courteous&#8221; way. &#8220;There is nothing abnormal happening,&#8221; he said.
The prosecutor said the transcript showed that the captain was preparing a briefing for landing in Düsseldorf. The co-pilot&#8217;s answer, the prosecutor said, was &#8220;laconic.&#8221;


Mr. Spohr said there was an interruption in Mr. Lubitz&#8217;s training that lasted &#8220;a few months,&#8221; but that he did not know why or whether it was related to a medical issue.
The company was unaware of the reasons for the interruption. If there were a medical explanation for it, Mr. Spohr said, Lufthansa as his employer would not be entitled to that information because of medical secrecy rules in Germany.

Mr. Lubitz was registered as living with his parents in the Montabaur region, but he also had a home in Düsseldorf, the German TV station N24 reported.

The code activates a loud buzzer and flashing light on the cockpit control panel, and it sets off a timer that unlocks the door 30 seconds later. The person outside has five seconds to enter before the door locks again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html?_r=0

 

[Madeleine74]

I haven't seen any yet I have been looking and there isn't much information about him online. The man died a hero trying to save the passengers, crew and himself.

Every one of the passengers and crew outside of the murderer was also a hero, and I bet the pilot locked out wasn't the only one trying to get that door open those last few minutes. Other crew members probably tried to bust down that door and passengers might have as well.

The very technology and procedures that were supposed to keep the passengers safe, doomed them. The airline industry has a challenge ahead of them.