Germany - Shooting at Munich shopping centre, 22 July 2016

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I blame media of all forms almost entirely. We live in a world where we're told every day we should be this, have that, look like this, do that - and it should be right now. But many of us can't have those things, or not without working hard. If you're an immigrant, or a child of immigrants, you probably came on the promise of "a better life", only to find that language, education, colour can all be barriers, and that (in this case) Europe actually isn't some glorious land of opportunity.

So there you are - young, disillusioned, poor, perhaps ghettoised, an age where we know that mental health issues arise. And you go online and you find other people who feel the same way, and you'll likely get no opposing view, noone to encourage you. Some people just need to vent. But some people will find their way to groups that have a darker motive. Some will fall into petty crime. Those latter two groups will find something that gives them a purpose or an importance in life they didn't have before. And still, they will have noone to offer a different view - in the case of Islam, many moderate preachers are afraid to discuss extremist thinking with their flock, because of the messages from the authorities and media. For those of you that are religious, and who turn to your pastors for comfort, confidences and so on - where would you go if that was denied you?

You get people telling you to travel and join them in their righteous fight, you'll be respected, get a wife, have a home. Can't travel, then fight at home and gain respect in heaven. Do some petty crime, mix with people who want more, hey, can you get me this? You're the greatest, thanks.

And it isn't all about being a muslim. So many of the people going to Syria, or conducting these attacks, know very little about Islam. They are sold a vision of it that plays to their emptiness and their needs. It provides them with discipline and a future. They're told that their failures in life are because they weren't following the plan a god made for them. It could happen just as easily with Christianity (and indeed has in the past).

When Egypt had it's Arab Spring, it wasn't long before people started complaining that democracy hadn't happened overnight. Expectations again. Hey, we'll do this and be just like [X] immediately! No, you won't! It takes years to properly revamp a political system. Years to recover economically. It takes patience and hard work.

And yes, people who feel desperate see stuff and copy it - suicides, attacks. It looks increasingly like the Nice attacker planned his rampage. But if he did, where is his "last will"? If he'd been in contact with Islamic State, they would have wanted him to make a video they could use as propaganda. So far, though, French LE haven't said anything concrete. Compare that with the axe attack on the German train, far less sophisticated but the young man involved made a "last will" before his attack and carried an IS flag.

As for Munich, we don't know yet. It feels odd to me that the shooter would kill himself as he did rather than going out in the way IS would prefer - in a gunfight or blowing himself up. Not to mention that Iranian muslims tend to be largely shi'a and IS are sunni. He could be from a sunni family escaping persecution, of course. Or he could be someone who has been abused because of his ethnicity in a country that's increasingly on edge, and he snapped. Certainly if he was really shouting "I'm German" it could suggest that was the point he wanted to make. Given we have video of him shouting, I've seen nothing so far suggesting he was shouting any of the "usual" pro-IS language.

I don't know the answer. I know it will take time. I know that media loves fear and danger, because it sells. To some extent, governments love fear too, it keeps them in, or gives them, power. Any message of reconciliation gets shot down as appeasement because "the people" want "something to be done".

I do think we're asking the wrong questions, or at least, asking for the wrong answers though...

That is an excellent insight into SOME of the terrorists. But it is so confusing because there have been many that did not fit that mold of young men with feelings of having no future etc.

The San Bernardino shooter had a college education, a lucrative job, a wife he loved and a healthy little baby. He paid his mortgage in a middle class neighborhood, and had lots of close supportive family members living nearby. And he and his wife threw it all away, including abandoning their tiny baby, to brutally slaughter their co-workers. The same co-workers who had recently thrown them a baby shower. :no:
 
From what I've seen so far I'm not convinced this is a standard Islamist terror attack.

1. The shooter was of Iranian origin, which almost certainly means he was Shia. The Shia and Sunnis are deadly enemies (think the Catholics and Protestants of the 15th and 16th centurys but on crack AND meth) so it is highly unlikely that a Shia would carry out an attack on behalf of Daesh. So far, the Shia in Europe have caused very few problems.

2. Islamist attackers do not as a rule shoot themselves. They either blow themselves up, expecting to take bystanders with them, or they die in an exchange of gunfire with LE. Otherwise it's just plain suicide and therefore haram, thus preventing them going to heaven. No virgins for them.

I'm going to guess that this is a standard angry teenager shooting spree. Apparently he claimed to have been bullied for years and emphasied being German (presumably whether German born or an immigrant of long standing rather than one of the recent arrivals); if this is true then it suggests an angry, not-fitting-in-or-being-accepted motive very like many teenage spree shootings that happen in the US.

But I could be totally wrong.

I agree. We get all this talk about 'immigrants failing to assimilate' and from some of these comments this 18 year old may have been bullied as an 'outsider'....

so.......humans, huh....

This is another article about that cinema shooting from a month ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/german-cinema-gunman-had-no-links-to-extremism-say-police/

Edit: 'these comments' meaning his comments.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-crime-munich-idUSKCN1021YZ

Police commandos, armed with night vision equipment and dogs, raided an apartment in the Munich neighborhood of Maxvorstadt early on Saturday where the German newspaper Bild said the gunman lived with his parents.

"I am shocked, what happened to the boy? Only God knows what happened," Telfije Dalpi, a 40-year-old Macedonian neighbor of the family told Reuters. "I have no idea what happened - but he was a good human being. I have no idea if he did anything bad elsewhere."
 
RTLZ
http://www.rtlz.nl/algemeen/buitenl...oniem-bestaan-buren-noemen-hem-rustige-jongen


A quiet boy who went to school like the rest and led a relatively anonymous existence. Thus his neighbors describe the 18-year-old young man who last night shot dead nine random passers-by and then killed himself in a shopping center in Munich.

According to the police, the Iranian-German shooter had no criminal record.The police remains in the dark about his motive.
Last night around 6 o'clock the young man started to shoot at random in a fast food restaurant in the Olympia shopping center and then went to nearby shops. He killed nine people and then ended his own life.

A few hours after the attack, about 2:00 pm tonight, a special unit of the police raided the house of his father in the Maxvorstadt district. The boy would have been raised by both parents. It is not known if, and what information was found during the invasion. According to the German newspaper Bild the father of the young man is being interrogated by the police.

"He lived right next door to me," a neighbor said to Bild. "I saw him only occasionally and do not really know him. A friend of mine was with him at school, and described him as a quiet boy. He recognized him on the video of the shooting."

The man acted alone. Previously the German police feared there were three possible shooters. Two others came into view as they drove away fast with their car. They have been found, but it was established that they have nothing to do with the massacre. There neither seems to be a connection sofar with the attack with an axe in a train Monday in Würzburg.

BBM

The investigation continues. No results from computer or mobile phone yet.
The rest sounds all too familiar.
 
Holger Schmidt@terrorismus
ARD-Terrorismusexperte

[video=twitter;756766270364717057]https://twitter.com/terrorismus/status/756766270364717057[/video]

Opfer von #München: Eine 45jährige Frau und 8 junge Menschen zwischen 14 und 21 Jahren - Information von Oliver Bendixen @BR24


Victims from #Munchen: A 45-year old woman and 8 young people between 14 and 21 years - info from Oliver bendixen @BR24


BBM


:rose:
 
AFP news agency
‏@AFP

#BREAKING Three Kosovans among nine killed in Munich shooting: official


BBM
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...man-iranian-gunman-targeted-children-outside/

The 18-year-old German-Iranian man who opened fire in a crowded Munich shopping mall and a nearby McDonald's,killing nine people and wounding 16 others before killing himself, has been named in reports as Ali Sonboly.

snip

During the attack, Sonboly, whose mother works in German department store Karstadt and whose father is a taxi driver, complained that he had been bullied for seven years.

German commandos last night raided the fourth-floor apartment home Sonboly shared with his parents on Dachauer Strasse, in the Munich suburb of Maxvorstadt, just two miles from where he killed nine people and injured 21.
 
AFP news agency ‏@AFP 3

#BREAKING Munich gunman suffered from depression: prosecutor
 
Teri Schultz ‏@terischultz

#Munich police say shooter had obsession w/mass shootings, found related material in his room
 
Vincent Verweij @vverweij
onderzoeksjournalist

[video=twitter;756793501787062272]https://twitter.com/vverweij/status/756793501787062272[/video]

The #Munich shooter had this book at home. It's about mass shootings on American high schools and universities.



BBM
 
Wierd Duk @wierdduk

[video=twitter;756795928967802881]https://twitter.com/wierdduk/status/756795928967802881[/video]


This is the shooter, via @Bild
 
John Stevens @johnestevens
Daily Mail

Munich gunman was reading book called: "Rampage on the brain: Why students kill"


[video=twitter;756792514233954304]https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/756792514233954304[/video]


BBM
 
EL PAÍS @el_pais

[video=twitter;756797101879750660]https://twitter.com/el_pais/status/756797101879750660[/video]


Police suspecting that the shooter invited various persons through Facebook


BBM

This was one of the questions asked during the press conference last night. Wasn't clear then.
 
Mathieu von Rohr ‏@mathieuvonrohr

[video=twitter;756796500336861187]https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/756796500336861187[/video]

German federal police @bka: Shooter may have hacked a Facebook account to lure victims to McDonald's restaurant


BBM
 
AFP news agency
‏@AFP

#BREAKING Three Kosovans among nine killed in Munich shooting: official


BBM

There's a good chance that their parents had been refugees from the wars in the former Yugoslavia of 25 or so years ago.
 
That is an excellent insight into SOME of the terrorists. But it is so confusing because there have been many that did not fit that mold of young men with feelings of having no future etc.

The San Bernardino shooter had a college education, a lucrative job, a wife he loved and a healthy little baby. He paid his mortgage in a middle class neighborhood, and had lots of close supportive family members living nearby. And he and his wife threw it all away, including abandoning their tiny baby, to brutally slaughter their co-workers. The same co-workers who had recently thrown them a baby shower. :no:

Ah.. but not necessarily.

Farook was going the wrong way long before what you describe above. He's been shown to have had an abusive childhood, and I know, not everyone exposed to that becomes a crazed killer, but as a bright and apparently quiet. devout kid, it's not hard to imagine that he would have looked to the internet to find the support he didn't have at home.

He met and married a woman described as "strongly religious", and LE said evidence showed they both had become committed to jihadism well before they met (and before there was even an "Islamic State". Likely he stopped attending his mosque because it was too moderate in tone for his beliefs. From the outside it might have looked like they had a good life but Farook had already filled the void in his life with hatred, and the love of a woman who shared that hate. Leaving the child behind is nothing, because they were performing the greatest service to their god.

There will always be exceptions to the rule, of course, but I do believe that when you look back, there will always be a moment when the majority of the people committing these crimes were in a position where they needed some help, but found the wrong path.
 
DailyMail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hool-promised-revenge-tormentors-one-day.html

A former classmate of the 18-year-old loner who claimed he was bullied at school after shooting nine people during a rampage in Munich has revealed that the teenager 'always' promised revenge by 'killing' his tormentors.

Ali Sonboly targeted innocent children at a McDonald's fast food restaurant in the city before he turned the gun on himself.

And an anonymous person - who went to the same school as Sonboly - posted online late last night that they knew the attacker.

They wrote on a website, thought to be a chat room, that they - along with friends - 'always mobbed' Sonboly at school.

The post read: 'I know this *advertiser censored***** guy, his name is ali sonboly. he was in my class back than (sic). we always mobbed him in school. and he always told us that he would kill us.'



BBM
 
July 23, 2016
7:09 am


Gunman targeted children outside McDonald's restaurant in shopping centre rampage as terrorism strikes Germany

Gunman in Munich opens fire at a McDonald's by Olympia shopping centre
Children targeted in attack
Gunman killed himself after fleeing scene
Gunman 'probably' acted alone
He was 18-year-old with German and Iranian citizenship
Munich attack: everything we know so far
An 18-year-old German-Iranian man opened fire in a crowded Munich shopping mall and a nearby McDonald's killing nine people and wounding 16 others before killing himself, the chief of police in the Bavarian capital said on Saturday.

Police gave a "cautious all clear" early on Saturday morning, more than seven hours after the attack began, and brought much of the city to a standstill as all public transit systems were shut down amid a massive manhunt. They said a body found near the scene was that of the shooter and he appeared to have acted alone.

Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae told a news conference the suspect was a dual citizen from Munich and his motive was still "fully unclear


https://www.google.com/amp/www.tele...at-munich-shopping-centre/amp/?client=safari#
 

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