Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 6 murders, July 2023 #12

[TFJ]

"My distrust of Spota and Burke makes me wonder . . ."

snip:
"Spota credited the “miracle of DNA evidence” for catching and convicting Bittrolff.

Less than six months after the conviction, Spota was arrested for obstructing an investigation into the chief of the Suffolk County Police Department, who was accused of beating a prisoner. Both men were eventually convicted and sentenced to prison.

As with the Gilgo Beach investigation, the case against Bittrolff was dogged by allegations of mistakes and misconduct by police and prosecutors. During the trial, the Suffolk County police admitted to accidentally destroying the wood chips found on one of the women’s bodies and, separately, wood chips discovered in a car used by a police sergeant who was a potential suspect.

Police were also accused of prematurely destroying the sergeant’s investigative file. In their appeal, defense attorneys said prosecutors did not turn over another internal file containing allegations by the wife of a separate officer that her husband killed one of the women. Prosecutors maintain they did turn over that document; a judge has yet to rule.'

New charges for alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer cast scrutiny on another man's murder conviction

New charges brought against the man accused of a string of killings on New York's Long Island are raising questions about another man’s murder conviction.

apnews.com

I always wondered what the source of Bittrolff's DNA was, so thank you to whomever posted the article that stated it was seminal.

So...let's assume, for the sake of argument , that John Bittrolff isn't responsible for the murders of Tangredi and McNamee, and that he did merely engage their services. The simplest break down of that would be that he just happened to have intercourse with 2 different victims, on 2 different occasions, who also just happened to have had their services engaged by Rex Heuermann. And this was in the early 90's...way before the internet took off. I suppose it's not impossible that, back in the day, RH and JB both trolled the same areas known for prostitution, but it seems a stretch that they both just happened to choose the exact same victims on 2 different occasions.

JMO

It also doesn't make sense with what we know about to JB case. 3 woman found , all beaten and posed within the same manner with the same article of clothing missing and the same wood chips found at all 3 scenes. JB was charged and convicted of 2 and suspected in the 3rd because all 3 scenes were exactly the same according to suffolk county police at the time. Fast forward 10 yrs, you have a man with over whelming evidence against him in 5 other murders and 1 from the JB case.
What I struggle with now is,
3 victims in late1993 to early 1994
2 killers with the exact same MO leaving the exact same scene, operating within miles of each other. Just doesn't make sense and highly improbable.

 

[Artis]

I grew up my whole life on Long Island and I can confirm it is both beautiful and very spooky. I always think of that comment on The Killing Season when he describes along Island as a pressure cooker and breeding ground for serial killers to be born. It’s a very unique, and interesting, place.

BBM

Why would that be?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I just keep thinking, why take pics and videos just to destroy them. I think he was sharing or selling them to like minded sickos. The easiest way to do that might be in chat rooms, at group fetish hookups or in later years on the dark web.

Thanks for expanding on your thoughts. This is exactly what I think, fwiw. Which makes me wonder...maybe he wasn't just looking at OTHER people's sick sites. Maybe he was creating one of these sites himself.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Multiple semen samples including Bittrolff's were found with Rita and Colleen. LE connected John Bittrolff because his brother Timothy was in the database for some crime (I don't recall what, but not murder). So the DNA partially matched Timothy which is how they got to John.

Man arrested in decades-old murder case

A suspected serial killer of three women is finally behind bars two decades after the murders — thanks to what Long Island investigators are calling the “miracle of modern DNA science.” John Bittro…

nypost.com

Okay...that's reeks of some kind of "party" to me.

 

[Megnut]

I always wondered what the source of Bittrolff's DNA was, so thank you to whomever posted the article that stated it was seminal.

So...let's assume, for the sake of argument , that John Bittrolff isn't responsible for the murders of Tangredi and McNamee, and that he did merely engage their services. The simplest break down of that would be that he just happened to have intercourse with 2 different victims, on 2 different occasions, who also just happened to have had their services engaged by Rex Heuermann. And this was in the early 90's...way before the internet took off. I suppose it's not impossible that, back in the day, RH and JB both trolled the same areas known for prostitution, but it seems a stretch that they both just happened to choose the exact same victims on 2 different occasions.

JMO

If we're talking the 90s, where the Internet as we now know it was in its infancy, back page and Craig's list was in its hay day.

One thing that I haven't seen discussed is repeat customers. RH had HUBDREDS of devices. Highly likely he had sex workers he favored, direct lines. Maybe he was one of those lumbering oafs who just wanted to talk or had fetishes, wanted them to dance or snuggle or whatever, leading the SW to think he was easy money and marshmallow harmless. Peaches and her toddler come to mind. If he was a regular, it may have felt like he was paying her handsomely for mild work, considering. I don't know that they ever even met so this is MOO -- but after enough times, maybe she shared her story with him, felt that he was wealthy loner. What I'm getting at is that I don't think he was ALWAYS violent. I think he was cunning. Sex party. Big money. SW has multiple partners and RH asks for a last call later. He's not about the sex as much as the power (the torture, torment and murder). He might enjoy lulling theses SW into trusting him. Big money to spend the night. Travel with him.

I think there were some he plucked from street corners, clocked them and drove them to his paneled hell hole, but I think others he may have capitalized on trust he had carefully manufactured.

There was one SW who met him for dinner IIRC but got weirded out when he wanted her to go to his house (did he also bring up LISK?) Imagine if she didn't have that sixth sense about her? How many others did a invite to his house and seemed harmless enough?

I'm not sure what would be worse, being taken to his basement with dropclothes and plastic sheeting pinned in place or to be captive there while he put them there.

It'll be far more than 6 when LE is done counting.

Not just cold cases but solved cases too. Other scum traveling in his same circle, convicted for RH's crimes.

The FBI brilliantly recovered a deleted file off an ancient PC. How many other files on other computers are there?

It's like hell has opened its mouth.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

It also doesn't make sense with what we know about to JB case. 3 woman found , all beaten and posed within the same manner with the same article of clothing missing and the same wood chips found at all 3 scenes. JB was charged and convicted of 2 and suspected in the 3rd because all 3 scenes were exactly the same according to suffolk county police at the time. Fast forward 10 yrs, you have a man with over whelming evidence against him in 5 other murders and 1 from the JB case.
What I struggle with now is,
3 victims in late1993 to early 1994
2 killers with the exact same MO leaving the exact same scene, operating within miles of each other. Just doesn't make sense and highly improbable.

I'm guessing there was a reason LE didn't charge Bitrollff with the third victim's murder besides the fact no semen was present. That said, it will all come out soon. JMO, I have little doubt his attorneys will ask for an appeal or the LISK Task Force will take the necessary steps to confirm their decision to charge Bitrollff with the first two murders.

 

[Megnut]

Thanks for expanding on your thoughts. This is exactly what I think, fwiw. Which makes me wonder...maybe he wasn't just looking at OTHER people's sick sites. Maybe he was creating one of these sites himself.

He was a consumer of it, but IMO it was to satiate, to get ideas and probably to gloat with his secret knowledge that hec wasn't just watching it, he was living it. That and so much worse.

I would bet that his sadism/deviance matured/decayed with advances in technology.

Started with film, then Polaroid, first saved then discarded, once he had a way to save them electronically. Perhaps on a hard drive he destroyed or time did. Overwritten. But troves of photos.

I think it was his private collection.

JMO

 

[Not a Belle]

I may have it wrong, but I interpreted that to mean things to mislead—false clues, things to point LE in other directions.

It's likely been discussed AND possibly even mention by Tierney, but I missed it... What does "MISS-LEADERS" mean under category of "PROBLEMS" mean?

 

[Betty P]

He was a consumer of it, but IMO it was to satiate, to get ideas and probably to gloat with his secret knowledge that hec wasn't just watching it, he was living it. That and so much worse.

I would bet that his sadism/deviance matured/decayed with advances in technology.

Started with film, then Polaroid, first saved then discarded, once he had a way to save them electronically. Perhaps on a hard drive he destroyed or time did. Overwritten. But troves of photos.

I think it was his private collection.

JMO

Yes, its an addiction. The more they're exposed to depravity, the more depravity they need to get excited. It escalates, just like any other addiction. ETA: Here's a link to an abstract discussing some of the possible neuro-biological connections

Can It Become Addictive? (Chapter 12) - Understanding Sexual Serial Killing

Understanding Sexual Serial Killing - June 2022

www.cambridge.org

This guy thinks it psycho-sadistic experiences. JMO, maybe a little of both

The Serial Killer and Sexuality

The psychological forces that animate the unfathomable actions of a serial killer.

www.psychologytoday.com

JMO, it's a combination of violent tendencies and addictive behavior. It might explain why some predators may attack and rape women, but not kill them, while others do so repeatedly, even developing detailed planning, etc. The dopamine response and craving has some influence on some killers.

"Homicidal behavior" is not a side effect of sex addiction

Therapists say people who are “addicted” to sex typically don’t exhibit "homicidal behavior"

www.salon.com

 

[Forest_Wood]

So did Bittrolff have a previous criminal history when he was charged and later convicted of those 2 murders? Probably, otherwise, how did they have his DNA on file to match it to the DNA found on the 2 victims, right? Anyone know what his previous convictions, if any, were for? He claims his DNA was on those women bc he had sex with them before they died. How long does DNA stay detectable for on a body? I mean, would he have had to have sex with them the day they died, or could it be from some time earlier than that? Wasn't he able to provide exculpatory evidence like proof that he'd been on a "date" with them? I know there probably aren't actual receipts for an escort date transaction, but seems like there might be something.

Also, was his DNA the only DNA found on those two bodies? Seems like if their regular work was sex work, that they would have found DNA of others on them as well as Bittrolff's. Maybe they did, but none matched any in the database. Except Bittrolff's.

I know the 2 women he was convicted of killing were posed and/or disposed in particular ways very similar to at least one of the women who RH now is charged with killing. How similar, I wonder? Maybe too similar for most to find it a coincidence? So I assume JB is talking to lawyers about reopening his case or challenging his conviction, etc.

Alternatively, could this new charge on RH that matches some details of the victims of Bittrolff, end up actually being a 3rd vic of JB, and not a vic of RH? I know they found hair related to RH, which is why RH is charged with that one, but could the hair be from prior contact between RH and the victim, a contact that did not end up in death that time? We know RH did sometimes "date" or hire women who did survive their encounter with him.

Just some thoughts on this, spurred on by the possibility of future need to overturn convictions on JB, who then would turn out to be a wrongly convicted and imprisoned man. Without knowing more details on those similarities among victims though, I expect it will just be attributable to coincidence, meaning no judicial or legal mistakes were made re JB. But will be huge if turns out different!

Very good thoughts! I believe wikipedia stated that they checked the DNA of the brother of JB, and it was a partial match, and they then matched JB's DNA to the crime through the brother. I don't know if JB had a criminal record before that. I would like to know how close these 3 women were found to each other. Was it just a matter of feet or miles? They found two hairs on Costella, one that matched RH and one that matched Witness 3 (either his first wife or a girlfriend of RH). On RHs kill sheet, he had B-UNK (for Black Unknown possibly), which I believe led LE to search in that area in May. I don't know if they found any other evidence during that search. I just can't see two random men staging their bodies in a similar fashion and all 3 of them killed or dumped so close together (Nov, Dec, Jan) by more than one person. And I can't imagine LE is going only off of those two hairs for evidence of RH being the murderer of Sandra Costella. MOO.

 

[jessr927]

Okay...that's reeks of some kind of "party" to me.

I'm not trying to be nasty, but since both women were sex workers, they likely had more than one client a day. Therefore, more than one semen sample. Just my opinion though.

 

[jessr927]

Very good thoughts! I believe wikipedia stated that they checked the DNA of the brother of JB, and it was a partial match, and they then matched JB's DNA to the crime through the brother. I don't know if JB had a criminal record before that. I would like to know how close these 3 women were found to each other. Was it just a matter of feet or miles? They found two hairs on Costella, one that matched RH and one that matched Witness 3 (either his first wife or a girlfriend of RH). On RHs kill sheet, he had B-UNK (for Black Unknown possibly), which I believe led LE to that search in that area in May. I don't know if they found any other evidence during that search. I just can't see two random men staging their bodies in a similar fashion and all 3 of them killed so close together (Nov, Dec, Jan). MOO.

Colleen McNamee was found in North Shirley
Rita Tangredi found in East Patchogue
Sandra Costilla found in North Sea

Two Decades After Pair of Killings on Long Island, Authorities Make an Arrest (Published 2014)

Prosecutors said DNA evidence has tied a man to the deaths of two prostitutes who were beaten and whose bodies were found on Long Island.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Betty P]

Check this out.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Colleen McNamee was found in North Shirley
Rita Tangredi found in East Patchogue
Sandra Costilla found in North Sea

Two Decades After Pair of Killings on Long Island, Authorities Make an Arrest (Published 2014)

Prosecutors said DNA evidence has tied a man to the deaths of two prostitutes who were beaten and whose bodies were found on Long Island.

www.nytimes.com

Thank you!

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Robert Shulman had at least 5 victims. 2 were dumped up by me in Yonkers (Lori Vasquez and Meresa Hammonds), Kelly Sue Bunting, Medford Jane Doe (with the "Adrian" tattoo), and Lisa Ann Warner.

Thank you the correction! My apologies, apparently I read an out-of-date article about his arrest and as of yet am not as familiar with his horrid crimes or background.

 

[jessr927]

Thank you the correction! My apologies, apparently I read an out-of-date article about his arrest and as of yet am not as familiar with his horrid crimes or background.

You're welcome! Shulman was a horror show and thankfully died of AIDS in prison. I worked hard to get "Yonkers Jane Doe" (Meresa) into NamUs and Yonkers PD identified her fairly recently. The detective on her case, John Geiss, was like an awesome one man cold case squad. He retired shortly after.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Multiple semen samples including Bittrolff's were found with Rita and Colleen. LE connected John Bittrolff because his brother Timothy was in the database for some crime (I don't recall what, but not murder). So the DNA partially matched Timothy which is how they got to John.

Man arrested in decades-old murder case

A suspected serial killer of three women is finally behind bars two decades after the murders — thanks to what Long Island investigators are calling the “miracle of modern DNA science.” John Bittro…

nypost.com

Which shows NYS enters a suspect/defendant's DNA into databases before a possible conviction.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Colleen McNamee was found in North Shirley
Rita Tangredi found in East Patchogue
Sandra Costilla found in North Sea

Two Decades After Pair of Killings on Long Island, Authorities Make an Arrest (Published 2014)

Prosecutors said DNA evidence has tied a man to the deaths of two prostitutes who were beaten and whose bodies were found on Long Island.

www.nytimes.com

By looking on a map, the two ladies that JB was convicted of murdering are closer together, about a 15 min drive apart, and Sandra Costella is about a 30 minute drive further east.
MOO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

It also doesn't make sense with what we know about to JB case. 3 woman found , all beaten and posed within the same manner with the same article of clothing missing and the same wood chips found at all 3 scenes. JB was charged and convicted of 2 and suspected in the 3rd because all 3 scenes were exactly the same according to suffolk county police at the time. Fast forward 10 yrs, you have a man with over whelming evidence against him in 5 other murders and 1 from the JB case.
What I struggle with now is,
3 victims in late1993 to early 1994
2 killers with the exact same MO leaving the exact same scene, operating within miles of each other. Just doesn't make sense and highly improbable.

Did JB confess to having had sex with both women or (paraphrasing) was it just his lawyer who said even if he did have sex with both women it doesn't mean he murdered them?
Who did the DNA testing on the JB case?
Spota was sure happy about the results.
I basically know nothing about the case and recently read about the Spota/Burke issues with it.

 

[x_files]

What was the DNA evidence of JB’s that was found on Tangredi & McNamee? Was it semen? Was it was lifted off of clothing or the body?

I honestly didn’t know until now just how close together these victims were murdered time-wise or how all three were found in the same positioning, all missing a left shoe. That is extremely unsettling to me.

RH followed the SW to the house of B and then kidnapped them? or were both present? Or had sex parties with him and the women?