Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[MrsWatson]

Oh, so much hinky.

Jeffery MacDonald, anybody?

moo

 

[Patrick Jane]

But didn’t the hypnotherapist say she’d warned CC not to talk about the money to people? Of course, we’ve only got her word for whatever she or CC said before she was killed.

«Καρολάιν και Μπάμπης ήταν πολύ αγαπημένοι, με ενοχλούν τα σενάρια», λέει η ψυχολόγος της κοπέλας

Τη συμβούλευα “βρε παιδί μου, μη μιλάς. Πας να φτιάξεις τα νύχια σου. Μη μιλάς. Δεν ξέρεις ποιος είναι δίπλα σου. Σε κοιτάνε με μισό μάτι”. Αυτός είναι ο κόσμος μας… Κακός. Και αυτό το μίσος και η ζήλια είναι κοινωνικό φαινόμενο»
I advised her, "my child, hey, don't speak (about it). You go to get your nails done. Don't talk (about it). You don't know who is next to you. They are looking at you with contempt and jealousy.* This is our world . . . evil. And this hate and jealousy is a social phenomenon."

*contempt and jealousy, a translation of the idiom (which literally translates as) "half an eye"

(my translation)/end of translation

I could be wrong about this, but to me this reads in Greek like it would be a really odd thing for a hypnotherapist to say (I wonder what the other translators here think about this). It sounds like something your paranoid grandmother might tell you. To me this sounds like more like the hypnotherapist interjecting herself into the story of this crime, and trying to make herself famous for seeing it all ahead of time, in the vein of "my understanding of human psychology is so remarkable that, I even tried to warn her." JMO

 

[Dotta]

According to the reporting I've seen, the sale of the plot of land had already gone through, but the alleged perpetrators didn't know that (i.e. they were too late). I've also seen reports that B&C were planning to build on this plot of land. If that's the case, then where is the money for the building? It looks like it was conveniently not at the house . . . hmmm.

This whole idea put forth by B and his hypnotherapist implying that no one can talk about building or real estate transactions in Greece because it's so dangerous is absurd. Are many transactions in Greece handled in cash? Yes. But does that mean that robbers would automatically assume that the money is in someone's house? No! Maybe the money's in the bank. Maybe there's a rich uncle or family member that's paying for everything.

This scenario would have made more sense during the time of capital controls, back in 2015:

Capital controls in Greece - Wikipedia

People talk about real estate all the time in Greece. However, what people don't do is say to a stranger, "I don't trust the banks, and I keep all my money in cash at home." Or "we're gonna buy a plot a land, but I feel uncomfortable with keeping so much cash at home." That kind of information could lead to someone getting robbed/burglarized. I highly doubt that C would have been so naive to have said something like that.

It's far-fetched. I'm not buying it.

You are absolutely right All this talk about" money for the land and the house" is so convoluted that it seems like a smoke screen for the real motive to me.

 

[Orgona]

«Καρολάιν και Μπάμπης ήταν πολύ αγαπημένοι, με ενοχλούν τα σενάρια», λέει η ψυχολόγος της κοπέλας

Τη συμβούλευα “βρε παιδί μου, μη μιλάς. Πας να φτιάξεις τα νύχια σου. Μη μιλάς. Δεν ξέρεις ποιος είναι δίπλα σου. Σε κοιτάνε με μισό μάτι”. Αυτός είναι ο κόσμος μας… Κακός. Και αυτό το μίσος και η ζήλια είναι κοινωνικό φαινόμενο»
I advised her, "my child, hey, don't speak (about it). You go to get your nails done. Don't talk (about it). You don't know who is next to you. They are looking at you with contempt and jealousy.* This is our world . . . evil. And this hate and jealousy is a social phenomenon."

*contempt and jealousy, a translation of the idiom (which literally translates as) "half an eye"

(my translation)/end of translation

I could be wrong about this, but to me this reads in Greek like it would be a really odd thing for a hypnotherapist to say (I wonder what the other translators here think about this). It sounds like something your paranoid grandmother might tell you. To me this sounds like more like the hypnotherapist interjecting herself into the story of this crime, and trying to make herself famous for seeing it all ahead of time, in the vein of "my understanding of human psychology is so remarkable that, I even tried to warn her." JMO

I agree, what you translated sounds like a weird thing to say as someone’s therapist, “hypno” or otherwise. This kind of personal paranoia inducing talk won’t make a patient in need feel better about themselves or about the world for sure... It wouldn’t be very helpful.
I too suspect she made this up to be in the press, otherwise I hope nobody visits her anymore for any kind of therapy, for their own sakes...

 

[Patrick Jane]

«Εβλεπε να απειλειται το παιδί της, σαφώς θα φώναξε. Εψαχναν χρήματα και ρώταγαν τον Μπάμπη "Πού είναι τα χρήματα ρε;". Οι άνθρωποι κοιμόντουσαν με το παιδάκι τους και όλα έγιναν αιφνιδιαστικά. Πρέπει να τους παρακολουθούσαν και κάτι να ήξεραν. Κατά τη γνωμη μου δεν μπήκαν τυχαία μέσα»
She saw them threatening her child, (so) obviously she'd shout/scream. They were looking for money and they asked Babis "Where's the money, eh?" (These) people (B & C) were sleeping with their child and all this happened to take them by surprise/catch them off guard. Someone must have been watching them/had them under surveillance and they had to have known something (implication here "as to the money/plan to build"). In my opinion they (the alleged perpetrators) didn't enter (the maisonette) by chance.

(my translation) /end of translation

snipped and bolded by me

If C shouted/screamed then how come the neighbor lady next door never heard these shouts/screams? We know from her interview with Light in the Tunnel and her statements to police (according to K) that she heard the sounds of the dog, but did not hear any shouting/screaming.
Either the neighbor is wrong or the person (B) telling us that there was shouting/screaming is wrong. They can't both be right.

 

[Patrick Jane]

and all this supposed shouting/screaming is integral to the narrative, because it's the reason we're given as to why the alleged perpetrators murdered her.

 

[Patrick Jane]

and, lest I forget, we were also given another reason for the murder, which was because she could identify the alleged perpetrator because his half-face balaclava fell off and revealed his face

 

[jenn83]

If this was a movie, then the twist would be him and the therapist running away together...

 

[Dotta]

If this was a movie, then the twist would be him and the therapist running away together...

Ha ha I think the twists in this movie would be so twisted that even the script writers would need Hypnotherapy to make sense of them all.

 

[Lola68]

The psychologist/hypnotherapist has been interviewed by LE at least once (I think I read that she'd also been asked to speak to B post-murder?). LE said her testimony was very important, yet she's freely speaking to the press about her sessions with CC and B. If she's a key witness, she should not be speaking to the press - LE/lawyer should have advised her otherwise. So her interview with a popular newspaper is at best ill-judged/advised, or personally motivated, and/or tactical (with/without LE involvement). JIMO

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

If this was a movie, then the twist would be him and the therapist running away together...

I just had the same thought cross my mind, whilst catching up with the thread!!

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

So what do we think is the deal with this hypnotherapist?

Is she being paid for her press interviews? Is she revelling in having five minutes of fame?
Did she really have Caroline's best interests at heart?
I find it very strange a potential key witness that has spoken with the police is off giving press interviews and comments.

 

[Angleterre]

If s

The psychologist/hypnotherapist has been interviewed by LE at least once (I think I read that she'd also been asked to speak to B post-murder?). LE said her testimony was very important, yet she's freely speaking to the press about her sessions with CC and B. If she's a key witness, she should not be speaking to the press - LE/lawyer should have advised her otherwise. So her interview with a popular newspaper is at best ill-judged/advised, or personally motivated, and/or tactical (with/without LE involvement). JIMO

If she is a key witness, for me there are two distinct issues
The first being the confidentiality of patient and hypnotherapist and I find it absolutely absurd that she is able to continue with her narrative to the press
The second being that unless the judicial system in Greece is very different to the U.K. ( U.K. having subjudice laws ), then if she is a prosecution key witness, her account will be torn to shreds by the defence who will question her professionalism and integrity and will easily sow a seed of doubt so that any verdict if requiring the elements of’ ‘ guilty beyond all reasonable doubt’ then any Judge and Jury listening to her testimony, will possibly not be able to include anything that she states on oath because of the integrity of her testimony being open to speculation because she is talking with the press
I mean, who does that ? all MOO

 

[Dotta]

I once read that hypnosis is quite effective when coping with addictions. My friend stopped smoking after a few sessions (although the lack of money after these sessions might be a factor too).

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

If s

If she is a key witness, for me there are two distinct issues
The first being the confidentiality of patient and hypnotherapist and I find it absolutely absurd that she is able to continue with her narrative to the press
The second being that unless the judicial system in Greece is very different to the U.K. ( U.K. having subjudice laws ), then if she is a prosecution key witness, her account will be torn to shreds by the defence who will question her professionalism and integrity and will easily sow a seed of doubt so that any verdict if requiring the elements of’ ‘ guilty beyond all reasonable doubt’ then any Judge and Jury listening to her testimony, will possibly not be able to include anything that she states on oath because of the integrity of her testimony being open to speculation because she is talking with the press
I mean, who does that ? all MOO

Absolutely, I completely agree.

Any of our Greek translaters know if witnesses that have provided a statement / information to the police in an ongoing active investigation in Greece can comment to MSM?

 

[Kemug]

I feel duty-bound to point out that being a controlling husband does not automatically make him a murderer. There would have to be more to it than that.

 

[Seni]

snipped and bolded by me

If C shouted/screamed then how come the neighbor lady next door never heard these shouts/screams? We know from her interview with Light in the Tunnel and her statements to police (according to K) that she heard the sounds of the dog, but did not hear any shouting/screaming.
Either the neighbor is wrong or the person (B) telling us that there was shouting/screaming is wrong. They can't both be right.

Spot on.

 

[tayaway]

I feel duty-bound to point out that being a controlling husband does not automatically make him a murderer. There would have to be more to it than that.

The same can be said for a 29 year old adult male aggressively pursuing a 16 year old high school girl.

 

[everybodhi]

«Καρολάιν και Μπάμπης ήταν πολύ αγαπημένοι, με ενοχλούν τα σενάρια», λέει η ψυχολόγος της κοπέλας

Τη συμβούλευα “βρε παιδί μου, μη μιλάς. Πας να φτιάξεις τα νύχια σου. Μη μιλάς. Δεν ξέρεις ποιος είναι δίπλα σου. Σε κοιτάνε με μισό μάτι”. Αυτός είναι ο κόσμος μας… Κακός. Και αυτό το μίσος και η ζήλια είναι κοινωνικό φαινόμενο»
I advised her, "my child, hey, don't speak (about it). You go to get your nails done. Don't talk (about it). You don't know who is next to you. They are looking at you with contempt and jealousy.* This is our world . . . evil. And this hate and jealousy is a social phenomenon."

*contempt and jealousy, a translation of the idiom (which literally translates as) "half an eye"

(my translation)/end of translation

I could be wrong about this, but to me this reads in Greek like it would be a really odd thing for a hypnotherapist to say (I wonder what the other translators here think about this). It sounds like something your paranoid grandmother might tell you. To me this sounds like more like the hypnotherapist interjecting herself into the story of this crime, and trying to make herself famous for seeing it all ahead of time, in the vein of "my understanding of human psychology is so remarkable that, I even tried to warn her." JMO

“my child, hey, don't speak (about it). You go to get your nails done.”
Ugh. How condescending, degrading and sexist.
Poor Caroline, her so called therapist is publicly suggesting that she is responsible for her murder and also that she is shallow and stupid.

 

[everybodhi]

bbm

Besides who would C talk to about money for the new house if she was as isolated as the therapist mentioned? So what about this money? Did B buy the lot of land or not? I dont remember this bit of info. I think B was dealing with sellers of land and made transactions. Maybe C said to her neighbour that they were buying a new house. Im lost in this matter with money and house. People dont usually keep it a secret when they want to buy a new place. But then they usually keep that much money in a bank.

Was she blabbing her personal finances to violent criminals or those associated with them? This accusation seems unlikely to me.