Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[MLO]

Same story says the video that this photo was taken from was filmed 2 years ago. **I assume a "dummy" is a pacifier??

The family claims, in this story, that she is 4 also.

Yes it is. One of my children calls them pacifiers and drives everyone nuts for doing so. He gets it from the Simpsons. I think it's an Australian and English thing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

And what do you suggest? This child was DNA tested, she isn't related to these "parents." They gave conflicting stories on how they got her. But by all means, lets just leave the child there. Who cares how they got her, right?

I think it would be in the child's best interest to at least have supervised visitation with the only family she knows.




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[Linda7NJ]

Yes it is. One of my children calls them pacifiers and drives everyone nuts for doing so. He gets it from the Simpsons. I think it's an Australian and English thing.

I've heard them called pacifiers, binkies, cheaters.... Have never heard dummy though


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[pieper4]

Same story says the video that this photo was taken from was filmed 2 years ago. **I assume a "dummy" is a pacifier??

The family claims, in this story, that she is 4 also.

Yes. Dummy is a UK-term for pacifier/binky. Pacifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ETA: Sorry... didn't see previous posts on this.

 

[revampz]

I agree that this child should not be left with these people.............they are not her parents!!!!! They need to find out as soon as possible who she is and give her back to her family....

I still believe this is part of welfare scam. It is being reported everywhere the amount of money these people were ripping off the government for the "14" children. Also the 6 kids within 10 months....bah.......I wouldn't trust these folk at all, they are continually spinning lies, they have been caught out and need to tell the truth about where she came from.

Also "roma or gypsies" do not have a very good name, and while yes I am sure there are a lot of law abiding folk amongst them, a huge percentage get by by scamming, pickpocketing, stealing the works........they are notorious in Rome, Paris and now London as well and can be very scary when you encounter them. I lived in London for 4 years and a very good friend of mine is a social worker and is now dealing a lot with the influx of gypsies from Romania they are now having (they have recently changed visa laws for Romanians).............he says that they are the least trustful of everyone he has dealt with.......sorry, his quote.

I was robbed by a group of gypsy kids in Rome while backpacking over 2o years ago.....my friend was walking in front of me, we both had backpacks on, she went around the corner and out of the blue this pack of kids set on me, they had begging signs they were pushing into me and I could feel there hands everywhere, this old man came up with an umbrella and just started hitting them of me. It was too late though, in a matter of seconds, they have my camera, passport, credit card and travellers cheques....AND I had a money belt on under my shirt!!! The police told us it was very common. I never forgot it, and if she is within this type of lifestyle...........then get her out of their and back into decent society.

 

[Tugela]

So.... They just took her from the only family she has ever known? Where are the other children?



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The reason for that is if she was abducted or was there because of some other illicit reason, if they left her with them she would almost certainly disappear never to be seen again.

I can't imagine that any responsible person would leave a child that clearly does not belong to a family in their care when they cannot show how they got her or even give a consistent story.

 

[Tugela]

I think it would be in the child's best interest to at least have supervised visitation with the only family she knows.




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Hard to do when they are in jail.

And even if they were the only family she knew, if she is a victim there is no way she should be spending any time with any of them. That is like forcing a rape victim to spend time with their rapist.

 

[MLO]

I've heard them called pacifiers, binkies, cheaters.... Have never heard dummy though


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I've heard them called binkies, but only on Elmo:blushing: They are only ever called dummies here, well some people might call them different things but I don't know anyone.

Soothes and pacifiers make the most sense though.

 

[MLO]

I never had head lice growing up, and never heard of anyone I knew having them either.

Stuff like that can only get spread around if you associate with endemic squalor.

I hadn't either until my first child started school. There are people who pay hundreds of dollars for special lice removal people to do their kids hair. I'm too poor to pay $800 for someone to delouse my children. I just do it myself.

 

[Tugela]

http://www.miaminewsday.com/nationa...r-cash-5-000-calls-from-around-the-world.html

I'm thinking she wasn't kidnapped for trafficking purposes. They've had her for a very long time.

I don't understand why it's been reported she was living in filth and squalor. It's been also reported she was filthy. IMO she looked like she started out clean and ended up dirty from playing outside. Her room was clean and neat.


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I was talking about it to one of my colleagues who is from Europe today, and what he was saying is that these girls are used to act as beggars when they are very young, but when they get older they are sold off to pimps as prostitutes. So, them being kept for a long time does not mean they are not being trafficked. There is a very real possibility that this girl was seen as a piece of livestock to be used in the short term to generate income and then sold off when she got bigger. And since she would have grown up in that environment, she would have accepted everything they threw at her as "normal" and been compliant with it. For a trafficker that is an ideal situation, because the girl does not know any better.

Remember, if she is not one of them, their customs and taboos do not apply to her since she is an outsider.

 

[MissMarple]

I was talking about it to one of my colleagues who is from Europe today, and what he was saying is that these girls are used to act as beggars when they are very young, but when they get older they are sold off to pimps as prostitutes. So, them being kept for a long time does not mean they are not being trafficked. There is a very real possibility that this girl was seen as a piece of livestock to be used in the short term to generate income and then sold off when she got bigger. And since she would have grown up in that environment, she would have accepted everything they threw at her as "normal" and been compliant with it. For a trafficker that is an ideal situation, because the girl does not know any better.

Remember, if she is not one of them, their customs and taboos do not apply to her since she is an outsider.

Agree with you. Many years before they had a certain code. I live in the very posh part od the 100k citizens town and Roma are 5 minutes maximum from me. Many of them have their houses and trying to live normally but many of them are lowest criminal, thieves especially reefuges from Kosovo. during the summer their children goes naked on the street and nobody react on it. Lots of the beggers arg especially in front of the supermarkets and bakeries. They put a child of 1-2 years for a whole day allone in front of bakeries. Remember a few years ago when such a child was kicked as the empty can. Nobody reacted because simply nobody wants them. In Hungary and Romania is much worste. I was in metro in Hungary when the big Roma family started to sing to me. Iwas so scared and later I was told if they attacked me, nobody would defend me.

I know in Romania and Italy, very good documentary, about Roma boys used for prostitution. In my country one man was arrested this summer because he was touching brests for money of Roma girls.

For them, Maria was a tool, source of money, nothing else. If poor, these two persons could go for cotton picking or for some work in the field. Maybe you in America have not clue what Roma really are, your travellers are not Roma and they are aristocracy for these one.

 

[zwiebel]

Your post has made me think. I've lived in/ am familiar with France, Spain, The Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, the Czech Republic and England.

I've encountered beggars in all those countries. I can't say for sure some of them were Roma, but I think they were. And I can't recall seeing a girl begging. I just can't. It may just be my memory, but I have clear memories of quite a few of them; boy who threw my change on the floor because it wasn't enough, and stomped off with his nose in the air; boy who played a harmonica beautifully; boy who showed off his stoma so people would pay him to cover it up, etc.

I always try and speak to a child begging, ask them where mom and dad are etc. But I still can't recall a begging female child.

 

[Tugela]

not being snippy but she has as much chance of being from the US as any other place..jmo

The chance that an impoverished group of uneducated transients are going to be kidnapping and shipping children half way across the world are slim to none.

This girl is almost certainly from somewhere in the Adriatic/Black sea region.

 

[AnjL]

People used to make jokes about my kids not being mine all the time...I have brown eyes, they all have bright blue eyes (my husband has green eyes).

It never bothered me, I used to make jokes about the mailman. I don't know why people have to get so intense about everything. Sometimes people are just trying to be friendly and make conversation, not insult your entire family. My niece and nephew are 1/2 Asian, but look full Asian really, and no one says ANYTHING when they're with me. Of course, we're either in San Francisco or Hawai'i (where they live) when we're together, so hapa kids are more normal than not in both regions. lol

I too made jokes about the mailman I have 8 kids, 4 are step kids of German decent and they are all well over 6', towering over my lil 5' frame. I have one foster daughter who is Hispanic, and then my 3 kids. My natural kids look nothing like me. Youngest is white/blonde with no eyebrows and blue eyes~he favors my moms Scandinavian/Scottish ancestry. Middle is bright orange/red hair and very pale complexion, green eyes. I'd have thought that she was switched in the hospital at birth, but she looks just like her father. Oldest has dark hair and brown eyes, also olive coloring. He looks just like my Native American father. All 3 have my moms thick and curly hair, hair I unfortunately didn't inherit
No one ever believes that they are my kids. On the other hand, my red headed daughters son looks exactly like me right down to hair coloring, eye color and dimples. Everyone thinks I'm his mom, they don't believe her when she corrects them.

 

[zwiebel]

I just watched morning news here in Norway and they showed an interview with the leader of the charity Maria is with.

The leader said they had gotten 200.000 tips and that there's no way they are able to categorize and keep track of them all.

Well, in that case I suggest taking fewer calls and registering all tips or simply forwarding the phone number to the police.

Quality before quantity.

I'm not certain, but I think I read that the police and smile had set up this tip line between them, a few years ago. So it may be the main system they have to take calls about missing children and would take a while to set up another one.

It was obvious they were going to be overwhelmed, imo. If important info does come in, it's going to be missed, I think.

 

[MissMarple]

Your post has made me think. I've lived in/ am familiar with France, Spain, The Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, the Czech Republic and England.

I've encountered beggars in all those countries. I can't say for sure some of them were Roma, but I think they were. And I can't recall seeing a girl begging. I just can't. It may just be my memory, but I have clear memories of quite a few of them; boy who threw my change on the floor because it wasn't enough, and stomped off with his nose in the air; boy who played a harmonica beautifully; boy who showed off his stoma so people would pay him to cover it up, etc.

I always try and speak to a child begging, ask them where mom and dad are etc. But I still can't recall a begging female child.

http://m.juznevesti.com/Hronika/Legitimisane-majke-koje-teraju-decu-da-prosjace.sr.html

http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Drustvo/33...Srbije-gotovo-polovina-mladja-od-deset-godina

 

[mrsward]

This picture .. is that lisa irwin top right?

Anyone know the rest?

 

[~n/t~]

This picture .. is that lisa irwin top right?

Anyone know the rest?

Looks like her but can't say for sure. Where did the pictures come from?

 

[Project35]

Not so. Things like that can only be widespread if there is a sustainable population to support it to the point where it becomes self-propagating. There are enough people in your community not taking enough care with their kids, that allows the infestation to stay resident, even affecting those who do take care of their kids. Once the number of affected is reduced below a certain point, and as long as parents stay vigilant, the infestation will go away.

Obviously that is not the case in your community.

Headlice are quite common in UK schools, but of course the parents treat them quickly, so they tend to go away. I caught headlice of my sisters friend when I was 18, it was horrific, I didn't think I had them because I assumed at that age I wouldn't get them and went to the doctors with an itchy scalp. I was so so embarrassed when she said what it was. I can assure you I wasn't living in squalor it was just one of those things. Still makes me cringe to think about it now.

So I can imagine in communities where children aren't taken care of properly it must be rife.

 

[lalalemon]

Nits are also very common in UK primary schools! I work in a nursery and there is always someone with nits! It only takes one parent to not bother treating their child and people get them over and over again! It's not always the poor families that don't bother treating either! They are definitely not associated with filth and squalor and I find that idea quite offensive!