GUILTY - Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #4

[Ontario Mom]

It is strange that the woman DM was engaged to is silent not one interview with the media.
If anyone knew DM it would be her they were engaged.
JS could be silent because she wants to keep things private and that she is in shock at learning what she did about DM. What do others think?

rsbm...

If I were JS, I would have changed my name and moved, a long time ago. I wouldn't want to be connected to DM for any reason whatsoever. And the creepy thing is, I actually know people who are associated with him (friend of a friend kind of thing) that have boasted about it. People are just creepy. I think JS is smart to avoid the media.

 

[MistyWaters]

The whole suicide thing just does a number on my head, my heart truly goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide. I can only imagine the anguish and guilt, anger and sadness, the full rainbow of emotions that they would go through, and likely forever. I *can't* imagine topping it off by having police treat those same people as potential suspects.... to only add to their grief and woes.

But on the other hand, how many murders are slipping by as suicides, and yes, better to know for sure. Is it possible that suicide victims might think twice before taking the plunge so to speak, or to at least be sure to leave a note, or somehow better protect their loved ones, if they knew from media that loved ones would be potentially suspected of their murders once they're dead? Police wouldn't necessarily have to treat loved ones badly, just to do their due diligence as a matter of course, in all suicide deaths.

Apparently this case did start out as 'suspicious' though, and it didn't make much difference. It sure casts a different light for me, when reading in the news of all these people reportedly killing themselves lately.. now I am thinking.. are we sure about that?

I agree, there’s no easy solution. Even if a death is deemed “suspicious” it must be challenging for LE to investigate because it’s not as if they can blanket subpoena all the friends and relatives to obtain such things as cellphone or online records.

Of the other recent Ontario cases that have come to light, the Harrison parents and Wettlaufer’s victims, each was ruled either death by natural causes or accidental, not suicide.

Just my opinion, maybe because I live in Alberta where the title is Medical Examer (physicians also trained in Forensic Pathology) possibly there’s a gap if Coroners are merely physicians? Because I thought it odd, in this case, the Forensic Pathologist who testified stated he wasn’t involved in the Manner of Death determination. Why wouldn’t the person who has received training in forensic science be allowed to apply it to support the Coroner, I don’t quite understand that.

 

[Spartygirl]

Been following along quietly as the previous 2 trials. Thanks to all who posted tweets and for the updates.
SIGH, I am not feeling so positive about this one, but we shall see. Now for the waiting part.

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks. ABro concludes by saying "I can easily see the verdict going either way."

I really hope the verdict goes the "right" way but I'm not optimistic. As soon as we learned the judge's name in this case, I did some searching and wasn't impressed with her rulings in previous cases.

Yes, it seems that even ABro, although she believes the Crown to have done a fine job in closing remarks, has wavered in her confidence in a guilty verdict being reached. A few days ago, she said the below, which was much more positive. I hope it goes the 'right' way as well, however I share your pessimism. I did not research this judge, however now I am curious, but from your remark, it does not sound promising.

Personally, I think Millard will be found guilty. There's more than enough evidence.
Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #4

 

[deugirtni]

If you arguing to look at any suicide closely, this one would be it. More than half of people that commit suicides leave notes, so easily verifiable. Then you have those that jump of a bridge or in front of a train, again pretty obvious suicides. There are people that drive to the lake and never come back, also pretty verifiable. But in this case we have a guy lying in a position that would make it very uncomfortable to pull the trigger. We have an illegal gun being used by a guy that gave away all his guns. And we have a son that after finding his dads body, didn't call 911, yet was able to call family and friends. What more did police need? Quite frankly, an investigation means more work, and when given the choice, "Do we investigate (work)" or "Call it a suicide (No work)" most will choose the later.

Similarly withLaura Babcock, "Do we investigate this? (Work)" or "Has she disappeared of her own free will? (No work)". It is no secret that TPS is overworked, and overworked people will always avoid adding more work to the pile, especially if there is no clear evidence that an actual crime has been committed. Clearly this mindset needs to change.

Thanks for your post, makes a lot of sense. And yes, when one thinks about it, I suppose that not all that many suicides would be up for debate as to whether they were in fact suicide or murder, so we're probably not talking a huge encumbrance to available resources to have to perform due diligence on suicides - most would be simple and some would require more 'work'. (However, even when a suicide note is left, one would hope the handwriting would be verified to have belonged to the deceased!)
Someone close to me had a young neighbour who hung herself in the evening while her young toddler and husband were at home in a different room. The woman had some emotional issues, however I am now hoping that police did their due diligence in that case as well. I feel like my confidence and trust is tainted now after hearing details of much of the public service (police/coroner/even EMS) work performed in this case.

 

[deugirtni]

Wasn’t it MB who called 911? As she wasn’t called as a Crown witness, the prosecution must’ve not considered it material to the outcome of the trial.

If you follow that post back to its origin, I was saying that DM's behavior was absolutely not normal, in that he did NOT call 911, and that he did not touch the body, and as a layman unfamiliar with finding dead bodies in his home (presumably at least???), a normal reaction would be to want to make darned sure that his dad was in fact dead, that he couldn't possibly be saved, but instead he called his mom who lived a distance away, and had HER make the call, and even then, instead of her making the call immediately so as to save WM if there was any possible chance, or even instead of her telling DM to make the call, she drove there to see for herself (ie good thing the guy was already dead, huh?). Had DM made the call himself, I was saying that the operator/dispatcher would have told him to do certain things to ENSURE the guy was dead.. but someone disagreed.. so I was responding to that.
I think I just beat sillybilly's longest sentence ever rating??

 

[deugirtni]

I agree, there’s no easy solution. Even if a death is deemed “suspicious” it must be challenging for LE to investigate because it’s not as if they can blanket subpoena all the friends and relatives to obtain such things as cellphone or online records.

Of the other recent Ontario cases that have come to light, the Harrison parents and Wettlaufer’s victims, each was ruled either death by natural causes or accidental, not suicide.

Just my opinion, maybe because I live in Alberta where the title is Medical Examer (physicians also trained in Forensic Pathology) possibly there’s a gap if Coroners are merely physicians? Because I thought it odd, in this case, the Forensic Pathologist who testified stated he wasn’t involved in the Manner of Death determination. Why wouldn’t the person who has received training in forensic science be allowed to apply it to support the Coroner, I don’t quite understand that.

Me either.

 

[Sillybilly]

This is the Wayne Millard murder trial thread. Posts about an ex-gf are OT and her social media, and social media about her (including videos and non-approved blogs), is off-limits.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

rsbm
Had DM made the call himself, I was saying that the operator/dispatcher would have told him to do certain things to ENSURE the guy was dead.. but someone disagreed.. so I was responding to that.
I think I just beat sillybilly's longest sentence ever rating??

O/T
Otherwise it's me, who is famous for endless phrases (of course in German) and who is asked by friends to write them please another endless sentence on a birthday card, haha.

 

[Claroon]

Sure, but my point is that the man didn't even touch him to KNOW if he was cold or stiff, and he didn't make that call at all. DM is not a trained pro (or perhaps he is) in dead bodies and death.

Did he say he didn't or is this perhaps another omission of detail?

 

[Claroon]

Why go through the cat door when the sliding door was unlocked and possibly open? Maybe it was one of the cats, the one on the arm of the chair. Whodunit!?

That's what I mean about cat door--the sliding door. DM said his dad would let the cats in and out there which is why it may have been unlocked.

 

[Claroon]

So I'm wondering if they did or didn't have DM looked up on LE niche system when at the house. It would likely have showed suspended license. That might have prompted a question or two about him especially when he suggested he had driven home around 5:30 (or whatever it was).

 

[ab-initio]

Im

This first-hand experience was reported by someone in the Hamilton area when he called 911 about a person he found obviously deceased (bbm):

While I was on the phone with 911 the woman insisted that I go back and feel for a pulse. Even though I begged her not to make me and told her I was certain Audrey was dead, she didn't relent and I walked back. I bent over her to feel for a pulse (this was my only contact with her) and immediately left the scene again.
CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

I'm not at liberty to speak too much on the topic -- is the audio for this call public record?
I can't speak to what actually happened in this specific situation but I will say that they are mandated to offer and if it is refused they have met their obligation.
I can't say more.

 

[Claroon]

Not just "work" but manpower and budget too I'd think.

 

[andreww]

So I'm wondering if they did or didn't have DM looked up on LE niche system when at the house. It would likely have showed suspended license. That might have prompted a question or two about him especially when he suggested he had driven home around 5:30 (or whatever it was).

Sure they would have had that info, but I don't think there was any reason to investigate him at that point. The basement already reeked of weed, but they didn't pursue that either.

 

[andreww]

Im

I'm not at liberty to speak too much on the topic -- is the audio for this call public record?
I can't speak to what actually happened in this specific situation but I will say that they are mandated to offer and if it is refused they have met their obligation.
I can't say more.

Would creep me out to touch a dead body, just saying. But logically, why would Millard make that call to his mom without being certain that Wayne wasn't in a deep sleep? A normal person might walk in to the room, Say "Dad" several time, then maybe shake him a little. Until you do that the logical assumption would be he's sleeping.

 

[andreww]

And BTW, the strangest comment from Millard was that after finding the body, he went to do something in his room for about ten minutes. Did he feel the need to rub one out or something?

 

[EspressoBean]

Looks like Google Wallet was released in 2011, but I doubt DM would trust MS enough for that.
The evolution of the mobile payment

It was not available in Canada anyway.

 

[Arnie M]

Must be nice ....... the Judge takes 3 months to make her decision ..... not to mention all the years the crown and police had to prepare for this case .... yet did so poorly .

Thinking out loud .... maybe the judge has already made up her mind during the trial for a guilty verdict ...... but she knew some of the gun reconstruction comments were biased and may be grounds for an appeal so she disallowed it ..... plus it gives the appearance Millard had a "fair trial" by siding with the defense lawyer.

 

[Kamille]

That's what I mean about cat door--the sliding door. DM said his dad would let the cats in and out there which is why it may have been unlocked.

Just jumping off your post Claroon....

I wanted to clarify what I also believe was said about that door and was indicated in pictures of the house. The sliding door in WM's room which was unlocked, led out to an enclosed structure in the backyard, outside the room, for the cats to go outside without being able to leave the enclosed area and roam the neighbourhood. Wise thinking when you back onto a golf course. There was no gate or any way to enter the enclosure from the outside on the side of it that the picture TPS took showed. Not sure if there was on the other side but if not, that would not be an easy entry from the outside for an intruder.

I believe that DM, in his interview, used the excuse that the door may have been unlocked because his father had taken up smoking again and would open the door for air while smoking in his room? Or go outside the door into the cat enclosure and smoke? I didn't notice any ashtrays or evidence of cigarette smoking in any of the pictures. Once again a missed opportunity for the officer to clarify this statement.

MOO