Gun Control Debate #3

[RANCH]

I find proposals for taxing guns and or ammunition at a extremely high rate to lessen the numbers of them troubling.

That's a regressive tax. One that effects the poor more than the rich. Like sales tax.

A regressive tax affects people with low incomes more severely than people with high incomes. While it may be fair in some instances to tax everyone at the same rate, it is seen as unjust in other cases. As such, most income tax systems employ a progressive schedule that taxes high earners at a higher percentage rate than low earners, while other types of taxes are uniformly applied. Examples of regressive taxes include sales taxes, user fees and, arguably, property taxes.

Poor people should have the same access to firearms and ammunition that rich people do since it's a Constitutional right. JMO

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/regressivetax.asp

​

 

[RANCH]

They won't. Just as murderers kill when it's illegal.Do you think we should make murder legal since murders happen anyway?

No I don't.

 

[RANCH]

Our cops are not trigger happy, because they know that people around them very likely have no guns.

I hope they don't become "trigger happy" when guns are likely to be around like during a terrorist attack.

Definition of trigger-happy

1 : irresponsible in the use of firearms; especially : inclined to shoot before clearly identifying the target

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trigger-happy

 

[CoolJ]

I would have to say that simply making something harder for a criminal to do isn't going to stop the most dangerous ones from getting and using a firearm. JMO

So you’re not interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns?

 

[RANCH]

So you’re not interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns?

I'm interested in preventing criminals from having guns period.

 

[human]

I'm interested in preventing criminals from having guns period.

How does that work since many crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Say, Paddock. Many people are not criminals until they are

 

[RANCH]

How does that work since many crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Say, Paddock. Many people are not criminals until they are

I don't think that we will ever totally prevent criminals from harming others with weapons.

That's why I'm a believer in the Second Amendment and people's right to defend themselves with a firearm if they choose to do so. JMO

 

[human]

I don't think that we will ever totally prevent criminals from harming others with weapons.

That's why I'm a believer in the Second Amendment and people's right to defend themselves with a firearm if they choose to do so. JMO

Unless some weird thing happens, we will never prevent anyone from breaking all kimds of laws.

Hopefully, with schools teaching positive problem solving techniques to kids instead of punishment, we will raise kids who can make better decisions even though they are raised in bad circumstances, Maybe they can break the cycle where kids learn shame and then translate that to anti social behavior,

It would also be great if when a child commits inappropiate or criminal behavior, the whole family goes in for counseling.

When I was a teacher, I,would have parents blaming a child for bad behavior but yet they did not look at themselves at all.

They did not see how their behavior was affecting the family.

 

[RANCH]

Tow-truck driver shoots man in self-defense Friday night in Lower Garden District; NOPD investigating

A man was shot by a tow-truck driver who New Orleans police say was acting in self-defense Friday night in the Lower Garden District.

This is a story I can relate to. My dad owned a towing business and had quite a few scary incidents over the years. Thank God he survived and was able to enjoy his retirement years.

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orle...cle_05488ee0-088d-11e8-881d-2f2e163c4e43.html

 

[RANCH]

Fort Bragg soldier allegedly shoots, kills wife’s attacker at North Carolina home

The wife was reportedly outside smoking a cigarette when an unknown man approached her, pulled a gun and forced her inside the apartment.

The husband, who was upstairs, heard the commotion and shot the suspect when the attacker pointed his weapon at him.

The article has a quote from the property manager who talks about how military people around there obviously have guns. The deceased miscreant either didn't know about that or didn't care. Poor planning or judgement that led to his demise. JMO

http://myfox8.com/2018/02/01/fort-b...-kills-wifes-attacker-at-north-carolina-home/

 

[RANCH]

Police say deputy fatally shot intruder at her Detroit home

The Wayne County deputy was inside the home when she heard a door being kicked in about 1:30 a.m. Saturday. The deputy told investigators she grabbed her weapon and fired shots at the intruder, who was armed with a pistol and wearing a black ski mask.

Even police officers are not safe in their own homes from the evil in this world.


http://www.wnem.com/story/36926730/police-say-deputy-fatally-shot-intruder-at-her-detroit-home

 

[human]

What parents need to know about the March 14 Walk out.

I wonder how many schools will be participating?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...hould-know-national-school-walkout/382448002/

 

[RANCH]

Felons are caught by law enforcement all too often with firearms. The punishment or lack thereof for that crime needs to be addressed in my opinion.

These miscreants laugh at existing gun control laws while subjecting society to untold horrors. That needs to stop. It needs to stop now.

There were 84.173 cases of felons in possession of a firearm reported to the US sentencing commission in 2012 with only 5,768 having convictions under 18 U.S.C 922(g).

That's unacceptable.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/...ck_Facts_Felon_in_Possession_of_a_Firearm.pdf

 

[rsd1200]

This is an investigative journalism article that I think is important for anyone interested in school safety and security to read. It contains links to actual policies and official agreements between school systems (Broward) and the police department (Broward).

This approach (no discipline, no police, no record) is proliferating all over the country, as a result of policies pursued during the previous presidential administration, via the Justice Department, and the Department of Education. Schools actually are threatened with loss of funding streams, if they don’t officially adopt policies to stop involving police in crimes that occur on school property, by students. I don’t’ care what your political leanings are, these kind of astoundingly misguided policies make ALL students LESS safe at school. And they ENABLE troubled kids to escalate their violence.

This investigative journalism piece for Real Clear Investigations (a mainstream site that is part of Real Clear Politics, and about a dozen other RC topics) is written by Paul Sperry, who is a regular author for NY Post, IBD, WSJ, Fox, and other conservative, but mainstream publications.



BBM.

https://www.realclearinvestigations...cipline_policy_and_the_parkland_shooting.html

Who is the author, Paul Sperry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Sperry


https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/03/02/broward_timeline.html

Press Release from the FL Dept of Juvenile Justice:

http://www.djj.state.fl.us/news/pre.../04/29/zero-tolerance-bill-passes-full-senate

Collaborative Agreement on School Discipline:

https://www.browardprevention.org/w...10/Fully-Executed-Collaborative-Agreement.pdf

210 page document on strategies to "eliminate the school to prison pipeline" Broward County:

https://www.browardprevention.org/w...10/Fully-Executed-Collaborative-Agreement.pdf

*If* we can begin to agree that we ALL care deeply about school safety and preventing school shootings, regardless of our political leanings, then PART of our righteous outrage should be channeled at these kind of “soft on discipline” official policies. These policies, and the misguided mindset behind them, ENABLE very troubled kids, of ALL races, to avoid (over and over, in most cases) ANY official responsibility and accountability for their criminal and violent actions at school. That leads to young adults with “no record”, who can then have unfettered access to dangerous weapons.

Raising the age to buy guns, and banning accessories like bump stocks, won’t make a dent in this problem, although these things are largely agreeable to those on both sides of the issue. IMO, they will pass both into laws, and I'm fine with that. But these measures will not save a single life, IMO. But it will make a lot of people and politicians feel like they "did" something, so there's that. It's a strategy of the incremental effort to ever more restrict lawful gun ownership-- much like the far right pushes to enact ever more incremental restrictions on abortion, with the goal of eliminating legal abortion.

So while many advocate for more restrictions and bans, intellectually honest people must ALSO advocate loudly and persistently to abolish these “no discipline, no police, no record” policies immediately. These dangerous policies, and the motivations and mindset that created them, have made schools vastly LESS SAFE from disgruntled and disaffected kids bent on planning and carrying out school shootings.

There were LEOs all during that time period that my kids went to school. The alt school loved to call them for anything.

Students with disabilities represented about 12 percent of the total student population but accounted for a quarter of those arrested and referred to law enforcement, 75 percent of those who were physically restrained at school and 58 percent of those placed in seclusion or involuntary confinement.

School Cops With No Student Training
https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...have-no-student-training-requirements/414286/

My kid has mild Tourrette's. It caused vocal and physical tics. Especially if he had anxiety. They called them on him, I guess, thinking that the officer could wave a wand and his tics would go away. The docs couldn't do it so I guess the school thought they'd give the LEOs a try. Both of my kids went to school with LEOs patrolling during the Obama years. They brought dogs in and scented their lockers, randomly, yes, in the Obama years.


I rarely ever heard of a LEO arresting a student during my entire 12 years of public school.



The shooter had been expelled, and banished, for one year to the month, when he shot up the school. He bought his AR a couple days after he was banished, in 2017.

Feb. 8, 2017 – Nikolas is banished from Stoneman Douglas, according to a discipline file.


Feb. 11, 2017 —He buys the AR-15 rifle that he will use one year later in the Stoneman Douglas massacre.

Feb. 14, 2018 – Armed with the AR-15 rifle, Cruz, age 19, goes on a shooting rampage at Stoneman Douglas High, killing 17. He flees the building undetected and is later caught wandering around a residential neighborhood.


NC Timeline, 02/27/2018
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...ol-shooting-bcps-timeline-20180227-story.html

Ten Lessons Learned
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/ten_lessons_1.2.pdf

 

[rsd1200]

My husband’s 22 rifle which was decades old was made fully automatic. Yes, it is illegal but it was a test done by my hubby and son. They are totally against unregulated weapons and semi automatic weapoms so they wanted to see if they could make his 22 automatic. It took less than an hour. They like to have facts when they speak.

My son is an engineer and my husband has physics as a natural part of thinking so they may be more competent than others.

His 22 already was capaable of having clips with multiple bullets.

As a father and grandfather, with my husband growing up in a hunting family with nine uncles, he is a rabid anti uncontrolled gun person for the last 40 some years.

He sees no reason for anyone including police to have semi automatic weapons. Call them what anyone wants.

The discussion always descends into people pulling coup on what an assault rifle is. I have memes on that very topic.

No one needs guns that shoot multiple bullets at a rapid rate. If someone needs them for hunting, they do not belong in the woods. They are a danger to themselves and others as can be testified by the gun deaths seen in Minnesota every hunting season, Some people should not be out there.

If people want to target shoot, they can join a club.

I used to live in the country in MN and I had to give up walking during hunting season. There are laws that people cannot shoot within so many yards of any structure including a shed. Apparently some cannot read.

My husband was fixing shingles on a roof of the house. A bullet whizzed over his head. Bullets can travel for some miles. Is it two or three? These types of weapons do not belong in the woods.

BBM
This is true. We've had trespassers who must go after that perfect buck. I try to watch where I'm walking in deer season because not everyone follows the rules, or takes the No Trespassing signs seriously. We allow only two people, outside family, to hunt on the property so when I pull up and ask to see their permission slip, there's usually the, Oh, I thought this was the <insert any name> place! I must have gotten my directions wrong. I'm so sorry, I'll leave now, but I just shot a buck,he's just there in that holler, do you mind if I field dress him? I don't want to let him go to waste. {grrrr}

We had someone's shot hitting the roof the other day. They had gotten themselves a trap shoot and hadn't scoped out the area properly. I was a tad annoyed.

 

[RANCH]

It appears that the Federal penalty for a felon in possession of a gun is 10 years with actual punishment being between 2 to 10 years.


Consequences of a Felon in Possession of a Firearm Charge

At first glance, the punishment ranges for a felon in possession of a firearm tend to fall on the lower end of felonies. Punishment can range from two to ten years. However, because virtually every defendant charged with felon in possession has some type of criminal history, the resulting punishment can be heftier than other offenses of the same level. Some states will enhance a defendant’s punishment further with the final conviction. Others will not grant probation to a defendant convicted of possessing a firearm. For example, in the federal system, the beginning punishment range for a felon in possession of a firearm charge is five years. Other states have enhancement provisions (or upward departures) if a defendant not only possessed the gun, but used it in some potentially dangerous manner as well.

Two to ten or five in the middle is not enough of a deterrent for me. These miscreants need to see decades behind bars. At the minimum they will not be able to harm anyone outside of prison while they are locked up. JMO


https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/felon-firearm.htm

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Felons are caught by law enforcement all too often with firearms. The punishment or lack thereof for that crime needs to be addressed in my opinion.

These miscreants laugh at existing gun control laws while subjecting society to untold horrors. That needs to stop. It needs to stop now.

There were 84.173 cases of felons in possession of a firearm reported to the US sentencing commission in 2012 with only 5,768 having convictions under 18 U.S.C 922(g).

That's unacceptable.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/...ck_Facts_Felon_in_Possession_of_a_Firearm.pdf

Exactly. This needs to be a focus when gun reform takes place, IMO

 

[rsd1200]

It appears that the Federal penalty for a felon in possession of a gun is 10 years with actual punishment being between 2 to 10 years.


Consequences of a Felon in Possession of a Firearm Charge



Two to ten or five in the middle is not enough of a deterrent for me. These miscreants need to see decades behind bars. At the minimum they will not be able to harm anyone outside of prison while they are locked up. JMO


https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/felon-firearm.htm

If it is a violent offender, no matter their method, they should have a strict sentence to begin with, and they are already banned from owning weapons, for life, most often. A violent crime or crime of violence is a crime in which an offender or perpetrator uses or threatens to use force upon a victim. This entails both crimes in which the violent act is the objective, such as murder or rape, as well as crimes in which violence is the means to an end. The Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) tracks violent crimes.

Non violent felons, after serving their time, paying their dues, and are off of parole/probation, should have their rights restored. Nonviolent crimes are defined as property, drug, and public order offenses that do not involve a threat of harm or an actual attack upon a victim. Non violent crimes are tracked by the Bureau of Justice Statistics' National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

 

[RANCH]

If it is a violent offender, no matter their method, they should have a strict sentence to begin with, and they are already banned from owning weapons, for life, most often. A violent crime or crime of violence is a crime in which an offender or perpetrator uses or threatens to use force upon a victim. This entails both crimes in which the violent act is the objective, such as murder or rape, as well as crimes in which violence is the means to an end. The Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) tracks violent crimes.

Non violent felons, after serving their time, paying their dues, and are off of parole/probation, should have their rights restored. Nonviolent crimes are defined as property, drug, and public order offenses that do not involve a threat of harm or an actual attack upon a victim. Non violent crimes are tracked by the Bureau of Justice Statistics' National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

The problem is that these felons are banned or prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition but they do it anyway.

That has to stop. Committing a felony crime is a serious matter whether someone is physically hurt or not.

I'm not saying that there can be no exceptions for a few of them who may deserve a second chance but for the most part no. They forfeit their rights when they infringe upon others.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

The problem is that these felons are banned or prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition but they do it anyway.

That has to stop. Committing a felony crime is a serious matter whether someone is physically hurt or not.

I'm not saying that there can be no exceptions for a few of them who may deserve a second chance but for the most part no. They forfeit their rights when they infringe upon others.

JMO

Violent offenders, fine, who wants a violent offender being armed? But when a non-violent offender pays their debt, they should get their rights back. You can get a low level felony and many times you don't even do time. A local LEOs wife got a low level felony, (non violent), from embezzling from her workplace. If she does her time, and pays her debt to society, then she should get her rights back. She shouldn't be treated as a second class citizen for the rest of her life.

DUIs get their Ls back. They're far more dangerous than the embezzler up town.