Gun Control Debate #3

[Gardenista]

Not to trivialise crime, but....

Sex offences can include a drunk man grabbing your butt in a nightclub,
Robberies might include getting your garden gnomes nicked.
Assaults, as previously mentioned, can include such things as spitting.

I am not sure what proportion of 30,000+ gun deaths per year could fall into a more trivial category.

Following years of decline in gun and knife crime, the Metropolitan 
Police reported a leap in recorded 
offences in the capital, with gun crime rising by 42 per cent year on year and knife crime up by 24 per cent.

 

[kimlynn]

Personally, I think we’re going to see more of this crazy stuff **unless** we also see mandated stiffer laws punishing those who unlawfully (since this new law says AR’s are to be banned) commit a crime while in possession of an AR-15. Like life in prison with no chance of parole.

I don't know about life in prison unless the crime is murder,which it probably would be considering the use of an AR-15

 

[human]

Probably that old saw that only law abiding will follow restrictions on guns. IMO

Only the law abiding follow laws. I follow a lot but sometimes speeding and parking..... I lie to myself why I am deserving of special privileges

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say or where you're getting your numbers, but this is from the Office of National Statistics:

*There were 571 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) in the year ending March 2016 in England and Wales. This represents an increase of 57 offences (11%) from the 514 recorded in the previous year.

*The number of homicides has shown a general downward trend over recent years and the 571 recorded was still one of the lowest levels since the late 1980s, despite having increased from the previous year.

*There were 38 homicide victims aged under 16 years in the year ending March 2016, the lowest number since data on homicide victims by age of victim was first published in 1972.

*The most common method of killing continued to be by knife or other sharp instrument with 213 victims killed in this way, accounting for over 1 in 3 (37%) homicides.

*The 26 homicide victims (5% of the total) that were killed by shooting showed an increase of 5 from the previous year, but is otherwise the lowest number since 1980 (19 homicides).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide

If I’m not mistake, your article is from 2016 while the other poster’s article was more recent, right?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I don't know about life in prison unless the crime is murder,which it probably would be considering the use of an AR-15

Perhaps but if the lawmakers are going to ban future sales of them then let’s get the current ones off the streets. They will be confiscated from the criminal.

 

[human]

I live in the UK.

I know not to walk down a dark street in the wrong end of town in the middle of the night on my own.
Common sense.
I know not to start arguing with drunk people outside Mcdonalds at closing time.
Common sense.
I know that in certain parts of certain cities that it might be unwise to get into a road rage situation or unnecessary confrontation. Common sense.

I do not have to worry about getting shot while walking down the street. I do not have to worry about my little kiddies getting shot at school. I do not at any time feel so worried about my own safety that I would welcome a gun in my pocket.

For reference I posted some gun stats on the last thread. The US has 5 times the population of the UK, but 1000 times the gun deaths.

I acknowledge that maybe we have more spittings.

Believe it or not, but most of us anywhere know where and when it is a good idea to avoid certain areas and certain times.

When I was in the US, I never looked at a driver. Too scary nowadays,No locking of eyeballs. And I prayed I never ticked off a driver by a driving error on my part .

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Did you notice how easy it was to be in England? I loved it.

Hm. I have several friends who live in France as well as visit relatives who still live in France. My one friends were even there after the massacre by Marseilles. They did not notice anything different.

Your daughter had that protection the whole time? Where was that? I have to ask my French friends if they know about this even if you do not feel comfortable in responding,

The French have local police and the Gendarmes. Not sure if local police are armed?

I have friends in Brittany, Biarritz, Lyons, Marseilles, Paris, and Cassis.

I like England too and wouldn't mind going back one day. I wasn't there long but yes it was an easy place to be. You gotta love that accent.

My daughter studied in Paris but she traveled all over France while she was there. She said the armed men were all over the metro area too. They were all dressed in black and would stand on street corners and just watch everyone. She said first it was weird but then it was comforting especially when she was walking somewhere alone at night. Maybe it wasnt local police if they aren't armed idk. This was in 2008.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Following years of decline in gun and knife crime, the Metropolitan 
Police reported a leap in recorded 
offences in the capital, with gun crime rising by 42 per cent year on year and knife crime up by 24 per cent.

Ok, but 42% of not many is still not many. 26 gun deaths in 2016, 19 the year before. There’s your 42% (ish) right there. Please don’t try and make out our gun problems are on any way near the same scale.

FWIW There are many things that irritate me about England: politics, funding cuts, drink culture, disaffected youth, the price of housing and crappy weather to name a few. It sure as hell isn’t some utopia of decorum or a haven of peace and love. But... we don’t kill each other very often accidentally or on purpose.

Now please excuse me while I go and have a nice cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich.

 

[bluedivergirl]

I don't know who that bad person is with a gun that's why it's good to have responsible people with guns to defend against the people who intend to cause harm. That just goes without saying.

I feel the same way BayouBelle feels. I live in a community with a high concealed carry rate. It does not bother me one iota. It is well known that this community carries, and we have an exceeding low crime rate.

I do not carry; our family does not have a handgun.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Ok, but 42% of not many is still not many. 26 gun deaths in 2016, 19 the year before. There’s your 42% (ish) right there. Please don’t try and make out our gun problems are on any way near the same scale.

FWIW There are many things that irritate me about England: politics, funding cuts, drink culture, disaffected youth, the price of housing and crappy weather to name a few. It sure as hell isn’t some utopia of decorum or a haven of peace and love. But... we don’t kill each other very often accidentally or on purpose.

Now please excuse me while I go and have a nice cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich.

I certainly hope that your big jump in gun deaths is simply an anomaly.
A compounded future percentage increase in gun deaths year over year going forward would certainly become problematic for sure.

Stay safe.....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What are you trying to achieve here, Gardenista? Aside from derailing the thread with irrelevance? Ive already said the UK isnt by any means perfect. We have 99 problems but guns ain’t one.

 

[human]

I like England too and wouldn't mind going back one day. I wasn't there long but yes it was an easy place to be. You gotta love that accent.

My daughter studied in Paris but she traveled all over France while she was there. She said the armed men were all over the metro area too. They were all dressed in black and would stand on street corners and just watch everyone. She said first it was weird but then it was comforting especially when she was walking somewhere alone at night. Maybe it wasnt local police if they aren't armed idk. This was in 2008.

Hm. That is very strange. Not usual. Had something just happened then?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I certainly hope that your big jump in gun deaths is simply an anomaly.
A compounded future percentage increase in gun deaths year over year going forward would certainly become problematic for sure.

Stay safe.....

I will stay safe, statistically, thank you. And same to you, a thousand times over.

 

[bluedivergirl]

Many people posting want higher taxes and restrictions on ammo.

I believe it would quickly ruled unconstitutional.

[FONT=&amp]Of all the ill-considered tropes that are trotted out in anger during our ongoing debate over gun control, perhaps the most irritating is the claim that the Constitution may indeed protect firearms, but it says “nothing at all about bullets.”
[/FONT]
On its face, this is flatly incorrect. Quite deliberately, the Bill of Rights is worded so as to shield categories and not specifics, which is why the First Amendment protects the “press” and not “ink”; why the Fourth covers “papers” and “effects” instead of listing every item that might be worn about one’s person; and why the Fifth insists broadly that one may not be deprived of “life, liberty, or property” and leaves the language there. The “right of the people” that is mentioned in the Second Amendment is not “to keep and bear guns” or “to keep and bear ammunition” but “to keep and bear arms,” which, per Black’s Law Dictionary, was understood in the 18th century to include the “musket and bayonet”; “sabre, holster pistols, and carbine”; an array of “side arms”; and any accoutrements necessary for their operation. To propose that a government could restrict access to ammunition without gutting the Second Amendment is akin to proposing that a government could ban churches without hollowing out the First. If a free people are to enjoy their liberties without encumbrance, the prerequisite tools must be let well alone. ...

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/12/self-defense-second-amendment/

 

[bluesneakers]

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years

More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show

May Bulman Social Affairs Correspondent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rbal-homophobic-abuse-community-a7933126.html

What does this have to do with gun control and/or gun laws? Seriously. Please explain why this belongs here. Thanks.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Hm. That is very strange. Not usual. Had something just happen then?

Maybe someone from that area could speak to that I really don't know.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

France is WAAAAAYYYY different to the UK. Only an Armed Response Officer in the UK has a firearm and they are small, special teams called out in an emergency

if it is deemed they are needed. ​

I confirm that uniformed police in France have a gun (very much in sight) when on duty. Since 2015 they're encouraged to conceal-carry when off-duty in order to respond in case of terrrorist attack.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years

More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show

May Bulman Social Affairs Correspondent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rbal-homophobic-abuse-community-a7933126.html

Are the attacks in rise, or are the declarations of attacks in rise?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just a little heads up to those who want to needle the European contingent here - having a go at our shooting desths isn’t really working, because, y’know, comparative statistics. Go for the terrorist attack numbers instead, yeah, especially the vehicle ones, we suffer with that and it spooks us a bit.

 

[RANCH]

I confirm that uniformed police in France have a gun (very much in sight) when on duty. Since 2015 they're encouraged to conceal-carry when off-duty in order to respond in case of terrrorist attack.

That would mean more guns out in the public. More guns mean more gun deaths.