Gun Control Debate #4

[Tricia]

So I took some time away from my computer to do an interview and work on other WS things.

Big mistake. Going to close this thread because I don't have time to babysit. I must have 15 more alerts to go through and I will bet you anything they are almost all or maybe every single one of them is from this thread.

Take a breather. Then come back and see if your thread is open.

Tricia

 

[Tricia]

Ok I see the problem now with the alerts.

Scientology is not a source when it comes to psychiatric drugs.

The only thing Scientology is a source of is Scientology.

This organization has an extreme view of anything to do with the psychiatric world.

Think Tom Cruise and Matt Lauer arguing over Brooke Sheilds taking antidepressants that helped her overcome depression after her baby was born.

Websleuths is not the place to use Scientology as a basis for a gun control argument.

Please do not bring up anything Scientology connected when discussing this topic.

Thank you.

Thread is back open.

Tricia

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The USA has always had access to guns. Civil wars, you name it. Less access in the past 25 years to the likes automatic firearms.

Nearly all school mass shootings last 25 years in USA.

Jumping off your post.

... Clarifying a few facts relevant to the gun reform debate. My hope is to keep things accurate and on-topic.

Gun regulation is American as apple pie, imo.

Trigger locks are a simple safety measure mandated by law in 99, for example. To think that it even had to be mandated! But, imo, its purpose is sorta like common-sense safety belt laws. It saves lives. Common-sense gun reform is expected under the Second Amendment, as affirmed in the 2008 SCOTUS decision on District of Columbia v Heller.

After the Heller decision 10 years ago, SCOTUS affirmed the rights of Americans to own firearms. It also affirmed the right of states and the government to regulate use and sales.

So it opened up gun ownership, imo.

Before that, some cities banned handguns, too. Automatic were banned in 1986, so closer to 35 years ago. Some were banned closer to the 1930s, so almost 90 years ago.

“Assault rifle” ban expired in 2004, 14 years ago.

Laws passed and court decisions were made in 1934, 1967, 1968, 76, 77, 86, 90, 93, 94, 99, 05, 08, 10, 17, 18, etc., etc.

Imagine: Imma pull that fresh-baked apple pie from where it’s cooling on my window sill, slice it into enough pieces for everyone here, and then serve it on a plate with a scoop of vanilla ice cream. Daydreaming it’s the Fourth of July — celebrating our unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. [emoji631] 🥧

The entirety of Heller, with audio of oral arguments, court opinion, and dissenting opinions, too. (Interesting!!!)
https://www.oyez.org/cases/2007/07-290

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/read...control-parkland-shooting-20180220-story.html

Timeline of major gun laws in the US
http://time.com/5169210/us-gun-control-laws-history-timeline/

 

[Bernina]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...trump-administration-moves-to-ban-bump-stocks

[h=1]Trump Administration Moves To Ban Bump Stocks[/h]

"The Department of Justice has submitted to the Office of Management and Budget a notice of a proposed regulation to clarify that the National Firearms and Gun Control Act defines 'machinegun' to include bump stock type devices," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a statement issued Saturday.

I haven't come across any post, yet, that actually had a pic and a description of the mechanism.........so, for what it's worth, here you go.

 

[Bernina]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/10/5922...-likening-the-nra-to-a-terrorist-organization

Conn. Governor Defends Likening The NRA To 'A Terrorist Organization'

On preying on people's fears
I said that the NRA acts like a terrorist organization. Webster's defines a terrorist organization as one that uses fear to effect its goals. What organization in America has used fear better than the NRA?

On tactics used by the NRA
The NRA is taking advantage of people's deaths to make the case that we need more guns.

On "kindergarten cops"
In 1999, the NRA's position was that guns didn't belong in schools, certainly not in the possession of teachers. They've since changed their position. I believe they changed that position because they don't want to have the real discussion about what would make Americans safer. Not selling guns of mass destruction would make Americans safer.

On Florida allowing certain school personnel to carry guns, and raising the minimum age for gun purchases
The idea that we're going to ask kindergarten teachers to also be the police in a school doesn't make a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, there are lots of things in the Florida bill – for example, raising the minimum age for purchasing any type of firearm from age 18 to age 21 – that do make sense.

 

[Bernina]

https://www.apnews.com/4c8f819ba0a1...un-law-beset-by-critics-across-partisan-lines

Florida’s new gun law beset by critics across partisan lines

The NRA contends the new law is unconstitutional because it raises the minimum age to buy rifles and puts a blanket ban on the fundamental rights of some law-abiding Florida citizens.
“The deranged murderer in Parkland, Florida, gave repeated warning signs that were ignored by federal and state officials. If we want to prevent future atrocities, we must look for solutions that keep guns out of the hands of those who are a danger to themselves or others, while protecting the rights of law-abiding Americans,” said Chris W. Cox, executive director, National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action.

Retired prosecutor and Florida law professor Bob Dekle sees no legal issue with raising the rifle-purchase age to 21, saying, the framers of the Constitution intended for 21 to be “the age of being adult.” He noted that the same age applies to voting and drinking.
“This lawsuit I think is an example of bonkers,” said Dekle, who plans to leave the NRA as soon as his membership expires. “The 21-year age limit just sounds reasonable to me.”

* note that the legal age to vote in the US is 18..........

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Sorry to bother you all again. I would like to remind you that Websleuths is in a very dire financial situation. This is as scary as it has ever been financial wise.

If you could donate something we all would greatly appreciate it. It can be $5 dollars and that would be great. However, DO NOT GIVE ANYTHING IF IT PUTS A FINANCIAL STRAIN ON YOU. I will say this every single time...$5 dollars is a lot of money when you don't have it.

Here is the link to our https://www..com/websleuths-is-on-the-brink. It also has more info on what is going on with Websleuths.

You can also donate via PayPal OR GPay (which is Google Wallet) by using the email websleuthsdonations@gmail.com

Thank you and carry on.

Tricia

 

[rosemadderlake]

We are talking about Gun Control in the U.S.

Other countries can be brought into the conversation as it relates our country's gun control but please let's not have big history lessons OK?

Thank you,
Tricia

But history is so important, Trish... Xo, Rose

 

[simba16]

But history is so important, Trish... Xo, Rose

I agree. & Tricia: I would be here more if you would bring back Politivent--the wild wild west. If not, at least allow some threads about upcoming Mueller indictments on Russian election meddling, conspiracy.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I just want to see my history lesson brought back... The Magna Carta.... The bill of rights was and is at the center of the gun debate.

Gun reform cannot happen without adhering to the past. For America we are different... We fought for this right. To know the origins of why is crucial.

We have many here giving us a hard time and rooting for us. Why? History...

To understand the "now", where does it come from?

What about the mirror revolutions of France and the USA? I think we are more sympatico than we know.

Why is it France, Canada, Australia, and UK are all chiming in?

Their history is trying to help us!

Even if I get exasperated I do believe their intentions are good...

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

We need history, we need to go back in order to go forward.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I just want to see my history lesson brought back... The Magna Carta.... The bill of rights was and is at the center of the gun debate.

Gun reform cannot happen without adhering to the past. For America we are different... We fought for this right. To know the origins of why is crucial.

We have many here giving us a hard time and rooting for us. Why? History...

To understand the "now", where does it come from?

What about the mirror revolutions of France and the USA? I think we are more sympatico than we know.

Why is it France, Canada, Australia, and UK are all chiming in?

Their history is trying to help us!

Even if I get exasperated I do believe their intentions are good...

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

We need history, we need to go back in order to go forward.

^^^ Yes, please. ^^^

[emoji120] [emoji120] [emoji120]

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Even more importantly, there is a distinctively qualitative difference in the emerging Colonial American version of rights. Unique is the emergence of the individual right of religious worship, the political rights of press and assembly, and what became the Sixth Amendment in the U.S Bill of Rights dealing with accusation, confrontation, and counsel. These are home grown.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/bor/roots-chart/

^^^This link^^^ is a great interactive showing the evolution from the Magna Carta blueprint to the greatly expanded American bill of rights.

A couple of differences between our two nations is that America was established through war, the American Revolution, and Australia was colonized. The second amendment's DNA runs deep in our fight for independence.

The protection of the 2A or acceptance of tightly regulated gun laws are respectively different values, the former being America, the latter Australia.

Australia is center left. America is center right.

While we share great similarity in European heritage, America's ethnic and cultural diversity evolved in tandem with its history. As violent as that history is America is home to that diversity in massive numbers.

In some strange way I think Americans while allied in spirit with its close friends in England, Canada, and Australia, we are very stubborn about our departure in government.

Jmo

:goodpost:

 

[rsd1200]

Lemme know when machetes and pepper spray can fly through a wall and kill a sleeping child lol Pepper spraying yourself isn't lethal.



Just. So much flat out wrong information here.



Yeah wtaf

If you pepper spray yourself instead of your attacker, or the wind blows it back on you, it is useless.

If you are scared, half asleep, and panicked, with any weapon it's more likely you'll hurt yourself with it. That's why you have a plan, so you are not scared, and panicked. If I hear a my dogs bark, I'm not half awake, I'm full awake.

 

[Tawny]

If you pepper spray yourself instead of your attacker, or the wind blows it back on you, it is useless.

If you are scared, half asleep, and panicked, with any weapon it's more likely you'll hurt yourself with it. That's why you have a plan, so you are not scared, and panicked. If I hear a my dogs bark, I'm not half awake, I'm full awake.

I don't think we can discount the fact that some weapons are way more dangerous to yourself and innocent victims than others. Of all possible self defense weapons, a handgun in the middle of the night is the worst option.

 

[rsd1200]

Great point! Agreed.

No reason to circle through that “Actually Rifle” debate again! [emoji6]

The term “military-style” rifles is more accurate. Or “assault-style” rifle. Semiauto, AR-15-style rifles.

Thank you for mentioning that, Jax!!


Assault rifle, U.S. definition:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Military-style Rifle, US definition:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile...ealth/parkland-shooting-victims-ar15.amp.html

Assault-style weapons in the civilian market:
https://www.npr.org/2012/12/20/167694808/assault-style-weapons-in-the-civilian-market

Military-style semi-automatic, NZ definition:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-style_semi-automatic

I usually refer to them as Semi Autos.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think we can discount the fact that some weapons are way more dangerous to yourself and innocent victims than others. Of all possible self defense weapons, a handgun in the middle of the night is the worst option.

I've known members of my family who are alive today because they had one. In my own experience; As a child, we were staying in a strange town, while traveling on vacation. Around midnight, 2-3 guys tried to break in on us. When my father, cocked that hammer, up next to the door, paused, and said "Leave, now!". It got very quiet on the other side of that door, and then they ran like Hell. Mace wouldn't have done $h*t for us that night. So, no thanks, I'll keep my revolvers,

 

[rosemadderlake]

It's gonna take a bipartisan effort, a group of love, and of respect.

I'd come down to Florida and learn how to shoot, gun safety, gun defense, gun target practice. Why?

Because in the north east, I grew up in total safety. My town, my high school, my college never gave one thought to this possibility.

Why not?

The world's changed. And maybe I need to try something new.

Ditch to old way of thinking and dive in the deep end.

These kids in Parkland Florida are going to need us. Not right now, they are overwhelmed. But soon...

They are a blueprint for the future. I think every person in our beautiful USA has to ask themselves, are we enough?

 

[rosemadderlake]

:goodpost:

Oh my goodness... Thank you!

I wanna thank EuTu for bringing it!
Oh, good lord...

The Magna Carta...

See you at Harry's and Megan's wedding!!!
:takeabow::razz:

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Claire Todaro: Why I and other students will protest gun violence on Wednesday

http://www.mcall.com/opinion/yourvi...guns-parkland-todaro-0311-20180310-story.html

My generation is one of firsts: the first to come of age in an era of social media, and to have an understanding of the power and connectivity that comes with it. This platform has given young activists, such as the Douglas students, a voice.

We're the first to grow up with frequent gun violence as something we should accept as a normal part of life; after all, Columbine occurred two years before I was born. We've only known a climate in which mass shootings are seen as an unpreventable ugly side of America, a monstrosity that just "happens."

But violence always has a cause. And this cause is an almost unrestricted accessibility to guns. We need gun reform, and I can assure you as my generation comes of age we will not sit by in silence while these tragedies continue.

 

[rosemadderlake]

---O.M.G...
EuTu... I love you...
Thank you so much.
xo
rose.