Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

[trixandhoney]

I wonder if because of its very rural location - and being near water- this would accelerate the decomposition due to all the wildlife.

To me, it was shocking to hear she was just bones, but then to me it feels like she went missing just a week ago (even though I know its been over a month. Just seems so recent in my head).

Maybe it is someone else, but it seems very unlikely to be anyone but HG. Especially since they've been going off pings.

Where's Gilamon?

But do we have any confirmation re: the condition of the body other than from the LE whose statement about the specific condition was later removed?

 

[Doghairrules]

I have to admit, I'm a little confused....there are so many variables which could affect the decomp rate of a body. Large mammals and especially all the different types of vultures each adapted to various stages of decomposition....but why then did the renowned ME, (Chandra Levy, DC sniper) apparently not factor that in? Or if he did, he still discounts it. He basically says: too early!!

ETA: I still think it is Hannah, but why would he be so adamant about the "early" skeletonization?:

The only other thing that occurs to me is that his interview was heavily edited for sensationalism. Maybe he went on to say, "BUT blah, blah, blah," and they edited that out? Just guessing here.

 

[Kaylas]

Not questioning the ME's conclusion concerning the excessive rate of decomposition due to JM's likely knowledge of body disposal, investigative, and forensic awareness. Most importantly, imo, JM was an outdoorsman and was right at home in the woods/forest. JM would likely be aware that placement of HM's body near the dry creek bed would insure virtual immediate scavenger activity. Turkey Vultures need sand to assist in the digestion of their food/carrion. Sand, which is found in and along the banks of creek beds, are visited often by turkey vultures..

Turkey Vulture Cathartes aura
http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/turkey_vulture.htm

One murderer, at VCU, knew to pour a chemical mixture on a body which causes rapid decomposition. If JM had knowledge of chemicals used in the hospital, he could have poured a mixture on Hannah that would lead to a rapid cellular breakdown, decomp.
Benjamin Fawley killed Taylor Behl in 2005 at VCU and dumped her body in a low ravine, exposed to the elements. Her hair was detached and soft tissue was gone. Taylor was found a month after her death. Her body was discovered on Oct. 6, 2005; remains were in such poor condition that it was difficult to determine if male or female.

 

[Gilamon]

I wonder if because of its very rural location - and being near water- this would accelerate the decomposition due to all the wildlife.

To me, it was shocking to hear she was just bones, but then to me it feels like she went missing just a week ago (even though I know its been over a month. Just seems so recent in my head).

Maybe it is someone else, but it seems very unlikely to be anyone but HG. Especially since they've been going off pings.

Where's Gilamon?

Hi "themom". I am checking in, and following the progress. All of this seems to make sense, even the speculation. The crew is far larger than necessary for a single homicide investigation. The area is perfectly suited to have been under the radar. I think that some of the other assessments of Longo's address support strong indications that this is the hoped for product of our search. And some nervousness that some other stuff might be learned...jmo

 

[jamicat]

This may have been said already, I'm quite a few pages behind. Although a defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty, no one is proven or found to be innocent.

You are either guilty, or not guilty, but being found not guilty does not mean you are innocent. It only means the state did not prove you were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. People have been found not guilty by a jury that clearly thought the person was guilty but also thought the state did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I just wanted to try to clarify that. Not guilty is not the same as innocent. While someone can be innocent of the charges they will still only be found not guilty and never found innocent.

You don't have to be found innocent. You are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law. So yes, legally, you are innoncent if not found guilty. But that is in a criminal court of law. Civil court and what others think, and whether the person actually did the deed, is truly innocent in a higher order is a whole other thing.

 

[tonks]

My gut feeling tells me that the actual crime was committed somewhere in the walnut creek park area and then the body was dumped down the road behind the Assisted Living home. That would explain the dogs hinting at a scent in or around the park area. Just another idea to think about.

If they do find thats true that means he knows the area VERY well and should watch for other victims or signs of him.

 

[Calico66]

And. FWIW, my brother-in-law who is an alb co officer & has been working this case from the start, has said that the remains were NOT found in the park. He's been scouring the site inch by inch for the last 24hrs so he would know.

FWIW (love the handle!) - how is he holding up? I bet they are elated to have found something, but so incredibly sad at the same time.

 

[VA Investigator]

Is that a yellow "do not cross" police tape spread across the back of the lawn of that house near the tree line, or is that a fence?

Yes, that is yellow police tape across the back of the yard in the tree line.

 

[FindHG]

more...

Hannah Graham exclusive: Aerial photos show investigators at Old Lynchburg property
by Courtney Stuart
10/19/14 at 9:43 PM
http://www.c-ville.com/aerial-photos-show-property-remains-may-hannah-graham-found/

Police step up Hannah Graham search
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/police-step-up-hannah-graham-search-30677069.html

WUSA-TV (more aerial pix of where remains were found - text)
Washington, D.C. 9:46 p.m. EDT October 19, 2014
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/19/hannah-graham-remains-found/17591035/

 

[Whiteorchids]

Is that a yellow "do not cross" police tape spread across the back of the lawn of that house near the tree line, or is that a fence?

Looks like yellow tape to me. Good eyes.

 

[ILOKAL]

Is that a yellow "do not cross" police tape spread across the back of the lawn of that house near the tree line, or is that a fence?

I can see crime scene tape down the left side of the property all the way back to the tree line and across the entire back right at the tree line. It appears they have cordoned off most of the 2.5 acre tract. JMO

 

[jamicat]

I'll second that. I lived on a farm in North Carolina until recently. When deer (or anything) were hit by cars, which they often were, the turkey vultures and other animals would make very quick work of it in most cases. When we had something die on the farm, the body would be gone within a day of its starting to smell. We had to drive through a right-of-way under tall power towers to get home, and often saw turkey vultures on those towers, just waiting. One time, we had a deer that was hit on our driveway by a delivery truck driver (who then called me to ask me to come out and meet him because he couldn't get his truck past the body -- uh... no thanks), and so I avoided going out for a day because I thought it would be too gross... but by 24 hours later, the body was totally gone. Sorry so graphic.
.

I think that the wild life and buzzards got to the body. I know where I used to live in western PA, one would often see deer or other wild life on the side of the road. Sometimes it would catch the attention of the buzzards and when that happened, the carcass was reduced to skeleton very quickly. Shockingly so. Not even weeks or even a week but days. Saw it myself. But it was rare that did happen. My guess is that this body caught the attention of a flock or even some other animal, that devasted the body whereas MH's body was decomposed by the elements.

As for the lack of hair that I was musing about, yes, as someone else pointed out, it could have been taken by the birds for nesting material. I agree that this was awfully quick.

 

[Wahoo]

WUSA-TV (more aerial pix of where remains were found - text)
Washington, D.C. 9:46 p.m. EDT October 19, 2014
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/19/hannah-graham-remains-found/17591035/

Just to be clear - that's the entrance to WCSP, not the known HG remains site.

 

[popsicle]

Alexis Murphy?

She had multi-colored pants on.

 

[Zuri]

Is that a yellow "do not cross" police tape spread across the back of the lawn of that house near the tree line, or is that a fence?

Wow, you have a good eye. It is yellow crime scene tape around the perimeter maybe.

 

[Hiandmighty]

An animal would take that for nesting material. ..sorry.

Especially birds...

 

[Doghairrules]

In Texas the ants rapidly take care of anything left after the coyotes, birds are thru.

Nice. ;-)

 

[citygirl]

And. FWIW, my brother-in-law who is an alb co officer & has been working this case from the start, has said that the remains were NOT found in the park. He's been scouring the site inch by inch for the last 24hrs so he would know.

Thank you. This bears repeating. Not in the park, supported by the searcher that led the group that found her. We can put it to rest. MOO.

 

[Just K]

The fact that JLM Jr was known to walk around that specific OL Rd area, fairly regularly, reminds me of the other most recent case where the convicted murderer was also seen walking regularly near one of the known crime scenes. I keep wondering if the younger suspect expressed his feelings with other like minded killers and worked almost as a apprentice to an older criminal...now that he was possible on his own he resorted to riskier public scenes like the Fairfax Rape and the sexual assault on an athletic field at one or the other of the two universities.

 

[sreshowtime]

Very interesting that this former medical examiner thinks that rate of decomposition is "far in excess" of what he would expect.

That guy hasn't even SEEN what was found...he is pure speculating.
There is no telling what soft tissue may still remain...one man's bone may be more graphic than another man's. Some how I highly doubt the bones/skull found are completely bleached out and as 'pristine' as the skeletal models hanging in an anatomy classroom. Now if it IS determined the remains are not Hannah's, well then....

may be graphic for some readers
http://www.sarti.us/sarti/files/SearchForHumanRemains.pdf
pg 11 & 12 are interesting