Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #4

[otto]

But didn't it take several days for Morgan to be ID'd, too? Or at least several days before it was released to the press?

I'll have to go back and check, but honestly, even though it seems like it is taking forever to us here at WS, I don't think it has actually been that long.

I wondered that too ... two days. Remains found Jan 26, confirmation Jan 28.

" 01/28/2010 10:30AM
Confirmed: Remains Are Metallica Fan Morgan Harrington"

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20339923,00.html

Police reported on Jan 27 that they were fairly certain that the remains belonged to Morgan. That's probably similar to what we have here.

 

[klily444]

I'm pretty sure that if you've passed the state bar exam, you can practice law in any jurisdiction in that state. I'm thinking Camblos doesn't want to represent Matthew in Fairfax due to 1. Matthew isn't going to be able to afford to pay him for a lengthy trial and 2. Fairfax isn't a convenient location - it would disrupt any other cases that Camblos has locally and that wouldn't be fair to those clients. Unless another legal fund has been set up for Matthew, I predict court appointed attorneys in his future.

Wait, this brings up an interesting point. Let's assume the charges are upped to murder. Can JM still afford Camblos? Or, will Camblos only be representing him in the reckless driving charge now? I bet JM would be pissed!

 

[Skigirl]

Morgan was not run over by a machine. She had broken ribs, as far as I have been able to learn. There might be more to the story - have to wait for a trial - but the broken ribs seem to have morphed into "multiple broken bones", "splintered bones", and "crushed bones". I wondered if Jesse punched her in the ribs to keep her quiet, and to keep her from running. I've never had a broken rib, but from what I've seen with people that have had broken ribs, it hurts even to laugh.

I'm not sure how you can say with such confidence that she wasn't run over by anything, but in any case, yes, having broken ribs hurts like the dickens and it doesn't take that much to get them (I got one from coughing really hard). Do you have link for the bit about broken ribs? It would be great to dispel the myth that many of us have seem to have incorporated into our inner narratives of what happened.

This headline says, "shattered bones" (though the article only refers to many broken bones): http://www.readthehook.com/68346/shattered-bones-harringtons-say-morgans-killer-violent-sadistic:

"Her parents desperately wish it weren't so, but they say they're convinced: Morgan Harrington suffered before she was killed.
On the five month anniversary of the Virginia Tech student's disappearance and less than two months after her remains were discovered in a remote area of a southern Albemarle County farm, her parents, Dan and Gil Harrington, spoke to reporters in front of the John Paul Jones Arena, where Morgan attended an October 17 Metallica show the night of her disappearance, to beg anyone with information about the case to come forward and to urge caution in the Charlottesville community.
"A monster walks among you," Gil Harrington says, calling her daughter's killer a "violent, sadistic and dangerous man...He chooses to kill in a savage and brutal way," says Gil Harrington, an oncology nurse, of her daughter's killer, "to break her bones before he murdered her." Dan Harrington, a psychiatrist, confirms that his daughter's skeleton showed "brutal damage."
While the Harringtons won't say which of Morgan's bones were broken–- and acknowledge that they do not yet know her actual cause of death, pending the release of the official autopsy report–- they remain convinced that the person responsible is an experienced criminal and may be a convicted sex offender."

 

[tlcya]

Someone posted this link earlier - the grandparents of the man that was working the farm when Morgan was found:

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/21/property...in-hannah-graham-search-called-teardrop-hill/

Is that the property in question, or a property just North of the property associated with Hannah's remains? The houses in the photos don't look like the houses in the maps ... the footprint doesn't line up.

This property is near to the property that was being shown/discussed in news reports and here. Before theis gentleman was in the MSM he was tweeting about the scene being his old family homestead (new owners but house not occupied since grandparents time) and we were thinking at that time maybe the police activity in the area and their being all out front and maybe on the drive made him think that is where remains found.

But if remains were found on nearby/neighboring property, it would only stand to reason that searching would also be taking place at properties in case access to creekbed was made through them or evidence tossed dumped on them. The only thing I know is that LE has not provided address (although things have been sourced to insiders, neighbors, etc) so I am still not convinced exactly where the remains were located.

The link in your post was a man who said his grandparents were previous owners of current remains located area in Albermarl.

The neighbor who worked at farm MH was found on does not live near the search area. That neighbor lives near JM's mother's current residence on Wells Lane in Nelson County.

 

[MomnVA]

I've been thinking and it strikes me that if I had spent hours of my time volunteering to help with the searches, I'd be pretty darned angry if LE never confirms publicly that the remains are or are not Hannah's. Even if I wasn't the one to find her. The community pulled together to search and if not for all of those volunteers, LE would have had a much bigger job searching than they did. They deserve to know whether their efforts helped yield fruit.

MOO of course.

They've indicated they WILL release the info when it is available. Just not in a press conference. They'll do it via written statement.

 

[newshound6]

Earlier today people were talking about heavy vultures breaking bones when they are standing on bodies.

 

[Daae]

What are typical sources of DNA, from the perpetrator, that they might find if the entire event occurred outside? I read that in Morgans case she had tissue under her nails. They might find his hair but what else? I wonder if Hannah was wearing pierced earrings? If she was, they would possibly be near the body.

 

[ksj3]

I've been thinking and it strikes me that if I had spent hours of my time volunteering to help with the searches, I'd be pretty darned angry if LE never confirms publicly that the remains are or are not Hannah's. Even if I wasn't the one to find her. The community pulled together to search and if not for all of those volunteers, LE would have had a much bigger job searching than they did. They deserve to know whether their efforts helped yield fruit.

MOO of course.

Their efforts absolutely yielded fruit! Knowing where she is not is almost as important as knowing where she is. It's like a disease diagnosed through exclusion. Without those volunteers and tipsters, they wouldn't probably have ever found what they've found. And we don't know what else they've found before then, as a result of all those search warrants.

 

[trixandhoney]

Essentially we have these reasons for why we don't know if it's Hannah yet:
1. They are processing cases in order and haven't gotten to her yet.
2. The remains (or lack thereof) are making it difficult to make a definitive conclusion.
3. It's not Hannah and they're trying to figure out who it is before going public.
4. They found more than one person's remains and want to gather more evidence before telling the public.
5. They are negotiating w JM.

What else?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Earlier today people were talking about heavy vultures breaking bones when they are standing on bodies.

I don't think it is done by just standing on the body. The Black Vulture does sometimes crack bones with their beaks. I don't think they would be able to crush bones though. They only weigh between 4-6 pounds.

 

[otto]

I'm not sure how you can say with such confidence that she wasn't run over by anything, but in any case, yes, having broken ribs hurt like the dickens and it doesn't take that much to get them (I got one from coughing really hard). Do you have link for the bit about broken ribs? It would be great to dispel the myth that many of us have seem to have incorporated into our inner narratives of what happened.

This headline says, "shattered bones" (though the article only refers to many broken bones): http://www.readthehook.com/68346/shattered-bones-harringtons-say-morgans-killer-violent-sadistic:

"Her parents desperately wish it weren't so, but they say they're convinced: Morgan Harrington suffered before she was killed.
On the five month anniversary of the Virginia Tech student's disappearance and less than two months after her remains were discovered in a remote area of a southern Albemarle County farm, her parents, Dan and Gil Harrington, spoke to reporters in front of the John Paul Jones Arena, where Morgan attended an October 17 Metallica show the night of her disappearance, to beg anyone with information about the case to come forward and to urge caution in the Charlottesville community.
"A monster walks among you," Gil Harrington says, calling her daughter's killer a "violent, sadistic and dangerous man...He chooses to kill in a savage and brutal way," says Gil Harrington, an oncology nurse, of her daughter's killer, "to break her bones before he murdered her." Dan Harrington, a psychiatrist, confirms that his daughter's skeleton showed "brutal damage."
While the Harringtons won't say which of Morgan's bones were broken–- and acknowledge that they do not yet know her actual cause of death, pending the release of the official autopsy report–- they remain convinced that the person responsible is an experienced criminal and may be a convicted sex offender."

I've seen links for all of the above while trying to find a fact ... ribs broken, multiple broken bones, splintered bones, crushed bones ... all of it. The only thing that makes a difference for me is memory of broken ribs from years ago. Even if I produced a link about broken ribs, someone, or I, could produce a link for splintered bones to contradict the link for broken ribs.

 

[MomnVA]

Given that Mr Camblos lost the election a few years ago to the current Commonwealth Attorney, I wonder if Mr Camblos initially agreed to take the case early on when it appeared that a local boy, "gentle giant" was perhaps being blamed and harassed by the police, in the hopes of "tweaking the nose" and/or embarrassing the current CA. And now that more and more damning information is coming to light about JM I wonder whether he's regretting his decision.

Does anyone know whether it's possible for an attorney to cut a client loose? If so under what circumstances?

I don't know the answer about cutting him loose. And unless Camblos can't afford to do it because JM can't pay him enough, I can't see Camblos wanting to drop such a high profile, national attention-getting case. IMO.

 

[otto]

This property is near to the property that was being shown/discussed in news reports and here. Before theis gentleman was in the MSM he was tweeting about the scene being his old family homestead (new owners but house not occupied since grandparents time) and we were thinking at that time maybe the police activity in the area and their being all out front and maybe on the drive made him think that is where remains found.

But if remains were found on nearby/neighboring property, it would only stand to reason that searching would also be taking place at properties in case access to creekbed was made through them or evidence tossed dumped on them. The only thing I know is that LE has not provided address (although things have been sourced to insiders, neighbors, etc) so I am still not convinced exactly where the remains were located.

The link in your post was a man who said his grandparents were previous owners of current remains located area in Albermarl.

The neighbor who worked at farm MH was found on does not live near the search area. That neighbor lives near JM's mother's current residence on Wells Lane in Nelson County.

Still, the houses in the article are not the same as the houses that were searched on the weekend in relation to Hannah's remains.

 

[ILOKAL]

Wait, this brings up an interesting point. Let's assume the charges are upped to murder. Can JM still afford Camblos? Or, will Camblos only be representing him in the reckless driving charge now? I bet JM would be pissed!

I thought he was also representing him on the abduction with intent to defile charge?

 

[tlcya]

broken ribs. A brutal assault upon a family member recently gives me first hand knowledge that ribs can and are broken during SA. The perp while attempting to restrain, control his intended victim can easily break ribs if they place their knee upon their victim's chest while attempting to disrobe/access areas they want to get at.

 

[otto]

What are typical sources of DNA, from the perpetrator, that they might find if the entire event occurred outside? I read that in Morgans case she had tissue under her nails. They might find his hair but what else? I wonder if Hannah was wearing pierced earrings? If she was, they would possibly be near the body.

No one knows where, on Morgan's body, DNA was found. We only know that it was found on her body. That DNA linked her to the rape case, and Jesse is linked through forensic evidence to Morgan, Hannah, and the 2005 rape ... which means, in my opinion, there is a DNA match between Jesse, and two of his victims.

 

[Lovepink]

Essentially we have these reasons for why we don't know if it's Hannah yet:
1. They are processing cases in order and haven't gotten to her yet.
2. The remains (or lack thereof) are making it difficult to make a definitive conclusion.
3. It's not Hannah and they're trying to figure out who it is before going public.
4. They found more than one person's remains and want to gather more evidence before telling the public.
5. They are negotiating w JM.

What else?

Good summary. I think we know it's not AM since they're resuming the search for her.

 

[Emaa]

Yes, a license to practice in VA means you are admitted in all Virginia state courts.

Thanks to you and FWIW for clarifying this issue

 

[4 Free Speech]

Wells family started renting a home to Jesse’s mom about a year ago.

Unfortunately, he knows how these kinds of situations tend to pan out. He was working on Anchorage Farm in Albemarle County when Morgan Harrington's body was found in 2010.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/nei...-investigations/29263116#.VEbvuTqSvkI.twitter

Weird coincidence.

I still wonder if JLM ever worked for Anchorage Farm in any capacity?? Anchorage Farm.. hmmm...too many coincidences.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not sure how you can say with such confidence that she wasn't run over by anything, but in any case, yes, having broken ribs hurts like the dickens and it doesn't take that much to get them (I got one from coughing really hard). Do you have link for the bit about broken ribs? It would be great to dispel the myth that many of us have seem to have incorporated into our inner narratives of what happened.

This headline says, "shattered bones" (though the article only refers to many broken bones): http://www.readthehook.com/68346/shattered-bones-harringtons-say-morgans-killer-violent-sadistic:

"Her parents desperately wish it weren't so, but they say they're convinced: Morgan Harrington suffered before she was killed.
On the five month anniversary of the Virginia Tech student's disappearance and less than two months after her remains were discovered in a remote area of a southern Albemarle County farm, her parents, Dan and Gil Harrington, spoke to reporters in front of the John Paul Jones Arena, where Morgan attended an October 17 Metallica show the night of her disappearance, to beg anyone with information about the case to come forward and to urge caution in the Charlottesville community.
"A monster walks among you," Gil Harrington says, calling her daughter's killer a "violent, sadistic and dangerous man...He chooses to kill in a savage and brutal way," says Gil Harrington, an oncology nurse, of her daughter's killer, "to break her bones before he murdered her." Dan Harrington, a psychiatrist, confirms that his daughter's skeleton showed "brutal damage."
While the Harringtons won't say which of Morgan's bones were broken–- and acknowledge that they do not yet know her actual cause of death, pending the release of the official autopsy report–- they remain convinced that the person responsible is an experienced criminal and may be a convicted sex offender."

Didn't Gill also say they finally received the full autopsy report on Morgan's remains. Iirc she mentioned it was 30 something pages.

I think I read that on their blog. They have never revealed what all was in the AR.