Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
How many times does it have to be said? There has been nothing released yet to indicate he raped the Fairfax woman.

We all assume he did, but no one yet knows he did.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012...rington_060412
Help Us Catch a Killer
Unknown Offender Linked by DNA in Two Separate Cases

DNA recovered in the Harrington case was linked to an unknown offender in a September 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax City. A 26-year-old woman was attacked at night while walking home from a grocery store. The offender was scared away by a passerby—but the victim got a good look at him, enabling a Fairfax City Police artist to produce a sketch of the attacker.

“It was a remarkable break to get the DNA match,” said FBI Special Agent Jane Collins. The forensic evidence linked the two cases, so now we have a face to put with the suspect in the Harrington case. The suspect is described as an African-American male with black hair and facial hair (at the time of the 2005 attack). He is approximately 6 feet tall and was believed to be between the ages of 25 and 35 years old at the time of the Fairfax City assault.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012...rington_060412
Help Us Catch a Killer
Unknown Offender Linked by DNA in Two Separate Cases

DNA recovered in the Harrington case was linked to an unknown offender in a September 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax City. A 26-year-old woman was attacked at night while walking home from a grocery store. The offender was scared away by a passerby—but the victim got a good look at him, enabling a Fairfax City Police artist to produce a sketch of the attacker.

“It was a remarkable break to get the DNA match,” said FBI Special Agent Jane Collins. The forensic evidence linked the two cases, so now we have a face to put with the suspect in the Harrington case. The suspect is described as an African-American male with black hair and facial hair (at the time of the 2005 attack). He is approximately 6 feet tall and was believed to be between the ages of 25 and 35 years old at the time of the Fairfax City assault.

Right now LE is most focused on searching for Hannah. MH comes into the picture because, yes, there has been a forensic evidence linking the MH case to Hannah's, the locale is similar, and what LE learned and has in the MH case is hopefully going to help find Hannah.

Yes, the MH case is linked to the Fairfax case, but....that doesn't necessarily mean that the link carries on so that evidence in Hannah's case is linked to the Fairfax case. It may be, and we'll find out soon since definitive DNA tests are being done using JM's DNA directly obtained from swabs recently. But until then, we really can't say for sure.

The MO of the Fairfax case, the locale, that the body was not hidden, that the victim was not missing really makes that case not that relevant in Hannah's search which is the focus of LE's efforts right now and of this thread. There is a thread that discusses other possible vicims of JM. To outright state at this time that JM did rape that woman in Fairfax in 2005 does confuse things and is distracting because this isn't the thread to discuss this, and so when someone out and out says that here, it makes it seem like it's a foregone conclusion when it is NOT, at least not yet.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012...rington_060412
Help Us Catch a Killer
Unknown Offender Linked by DNA in Two Separate Cases

DNA recovered in the Harrington case was linked to an unknown offender in a September 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax City. A 26-year-old woman was attacked at night while walking home from a grocery store. The offender was scared away by a passerby—but the victim got a good look at him, enabling a Fairfax City Police artist to produce a sketch of the attacker.

“It was a remarkable break to get the DNA match,” said FBI Special Agent Jane Collins. The forensic evidence linked the two cases, so now we have a face to put with the suspect in the Harrington case. The suspect is described as an African-American male with black hair and facial hair (at the time of the 2005 attack). He is approximately 6 feet tall and was believed to be between the ages of 25 and 35 years old at the time of the Fairfax City assault.

I'm not going to keep arguing, but please be careful when you spread nonfacts.

There IS a DNA link between MH and Fairfax.

There IS a "forensic link" for LE to "pursue. --> "Last week, the arrest of Jesse L. Matthew Jr., 32, of Charlottesville, Va., provided a significant break in this case (referring to MH) with a new forensic link for state police investigators to pursue. http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sou...s-jesse-matthew-to-morgan-harrington/28315192

Some MSM have said that "forensic link" is, in fact, DNA.

It could be that MH's was found in JM's car (he could have given her a ride and nothing more) or it could be JM's DNA matches DNA found on either MH or her shirt. He could be a third party involved in MH. It could be he was a friend of MH and so they found her hair in his car.

That DOES NOT mean JM is the Fairfax perp. Period. They DID NOT say JM is linked to the Fairfax rape.

Once they say it (and I have no doubt they will), my feathers won't ruffle when you call him the Fairfax rapist. As of right now you and you alone are the only one saying that. LE is not.
 
How does one abandon a cab? Why wasn't this noticed in 2009. It was just found 2 weeks ago? There are so many "off"things in this (or these) cases.

I admit it doesn't look good, but why is emphasis placed on "last seen" with JM? I find it hard to believe someone with intent to murder chooses a busy downtown mall teeming with witnesses to abduct an obviously drunken young woman to pick up a hitchhiking young girl while on duty in his employer's car? Maybe he is that impulsive. Every thing revealed by media only supports LE's case. Obviously, they are profiling, but really it all matches too neatly and unless there is DNA exchange of bodily fluid, all is circumstantial. Cases can be based just on that, but makes proving intent to defile difficult.

I am really bothered that no real investigation seems to be happening on other scenarios. It has been noted by several people, alum from UVA, that Hannah was not lost and not wandering aimlessly. Why was she there? Her possible intent is being protected. Why us that? She was running past that gas station because she knew that it was a seedy spot, so she was lucid enough to look after herself. The timing of her text is off to. Maybe this has all been vetted here, so excuse me if I am being redundant. I just don't why all this is not being discussed or disclosed.

I don't know if the cab has anything to do with what JM has done, or anything to help this search for Hannah. I don't know if JM is the one who owns this cab and parked it there, or if that cab that happens to be the same one JM drove when MH disappeared happens to have been found during this search for Hannah, Maybe someone who knew that the cab was sitting there notified LE after the link to MH was announced. I don't get this connection to Hannah's search and hopefully it's explained.

When anyone disappears like Hannah did, the last person to have seen or been seen with the missing person, becomes a POI (person of interest) just as a matter of fact. It's the latest piece of info on that missing person and could provide a lot of clues aabout that missing person. So, "last seen" is always important. Hannah was "last seen" walking with JM. So LE wants info from JM as to where the two of them went, what they did and where he separated from her, so that they can have a new "left off" point to search for that person. That JM is refusing to give any information on this, makes it suspicious, yes. Why would he not want to give this info that could possibly help find her? That's the question that comes up.

In a court of law, there is a presumption of interest, and that JM isn't saying anything is not allowed to be held against him as a sign of guilt in the verdit and the judge will so instruct jurors. But we aren't in court right now. We are all involved in a great search to find a missing young woman whose parents are in abject agony that she is missing. So, yes, looking bad, looking guilty is going to get someone like JM in a lot of trouble. In a short while the DA will have to try to prove the "Abduction with an Intent to Defile charge" and when he does that, we'll see what evidence LE has in that regard. They may up the charges by that time if more evidence including DNA matches are found. Or if not, the DA may have to drop the charges. For whatever reason, the state believes right now that they can get JM on these cases. Because of that the media, and many of us believe that JM did do harm to Hannah. Really, even DNA evidence showing sex between Hannah and JM is not conclusive evidence that JM harmed JM. No crime to have picked up Hannah, no crime to have left the mall with Hannah, no crime to have had Hannah in that car, no crime to have had sex with Hannah. None of those things in a vacuum are crimes. But because Hannah has not returned to her life, there is distinct suspicion that something dire happened to her and it sure looks like JM knows something and that he did something to prevent her returning.

From talking to Hannah's friends who were in contact with her that night, LE has come to the conclusion that she was lost at that mall. But whether she was or not, what difference does it make? Even if she did plan to go to the mall to meet someone, so what? She disappeared from there and has not returned. She fits the profile of a young woman who was abducted and prevented from returning home, and it looks likely that she was killed. When things look like that, LE has to get involved and check it out and prove it ain't so. THis is NOT in a court of law at this time. LE as a public service is searching for her, and if she is indeed alive and well, that would be the best possible outcome, and everyone would be relieved That she is gone so long without much trace of where she is now, is a big problem and, yes, it does not look good for JM.

But even if she is not found, doesn't mean that JM is going to be found guilty in a court of law for this. There would have to be enough evidence to show without reasonable doubt that he harmed or killed her. It can happen even without a body, has happened, but will require a lot more proof. We have to all bear in mind that LE has a lot of info they are not sharing with us, and they feel that JM needs to kept in custody, until the court hears and sees the evidence. It would be neglig ent and could be dangerous to any of us if someone who did kill Hannah were allowed to stay loose, as it would be for any murderer to so be.

Whatever other scenarios there might be, a lot can ride on finding Hannah. That's why the search for Hannah is paramount right now. Finding Hannah might well change the scenario. IF JM had dropped Hannah off at the Corner and he had nothing more to do with her, finding Hannah could possibly open up other possibilities. LIke if someone else's DNA might be all over her instead of his. Where and how she is found will help come up with some reconstruction of what might have happened to her.
 
I'm wondering if it was that super secret warrant in nelson county a week or two ago.

Good thinking! I went back and searched the scanner thread. Remarks about the sealed search warrant in Nelson Co were on 10-1 and 10-2, so not quite 2 weeks ago, but probably close enough. Wonder if info is available on where the cab was found.
 
October 9, 2014

Virginia State Police say earlier today, several media outlets incorrectly reported unnamed "sources" regarding Morgan Harrington's disappearance.

Several media outlets allegedly reported Jesse Matthew, Jr., was interviewed back in 2009 in connection to Morgan Harrington's disappearance, which State Police say never occurred.

Virginia State Police released the following statement regarding today's inaccurate information:

"Right now the disappearance and death of Morgan are the core focus of the Virginia State Police investigation. Release of information from anyone other than the Virginia State Police concerning this case is not official nor factually confirmed."
 
Didn't he rape the Faurfax woman? I doubt if he slipped on a condom.
I have always thought the DNA from MH case was semen especially after her mother stated she was raped. It's only logical. We know the DNA from the fairfax woman was, I'm sure of it. I don't see a rapist putting on a condom. JMO nothing more.
 
I have a question regarding the length of this search. Are searches for missing (and/or presumed dead) persons usually carried out for this length of time? It's been almost a month and I don't remember hearing of many...or any...searches going on this long, although maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.
 
I have a question regarding the length of this search. Are searches for missing (and/or presumed dead) persons usually carried out for this length of time? It's been almost a month and I don't remember hearing of many...or any...searches going on this long, although maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

I am only guessing, and don't presume to speak for LE, but my guess is they will continue to search as long as they continue to get viable leads, and will discontinue the searching when they feel they have exhausted all such leads and no more are coming in. JMO
 
Good thinking! I went back and searched the scanner thread. Remarks about the sealed search warrant in Nelson Co were on 10-1 and 10-2, so not quite 2 weeks ago, but probably close enough. Wonder if info is available on where the cab was found.

It could have been seen earlier during a search and then they searched the vehicle on 10-1 or 10-2 once they looked up the VIN and knew it was his old vehicle. That might fit with the 2 week timeframe
 
I am only guessing, and don't presume to speak for LE, but my guess is they will continue to search as long as they continue to get viable leads, and will discontinue the searching when they feel they have exhausted all such leads and no more are coming in. JMO

I see what you mean. Good point. Thanks. That's actually good news.
 
Good thinking! I went back and searched the scanner thread. Remarks about the sealed search warrant in Nelson Co were on 10-1 and 10-2, so not quite 2 weeks ago, but probably close enough. Wonder if info is available on where the cab was found.

I can't insert the link at the moment, but Newsplex Charlottesville reported the cab was on a farm in Albemarle Co.
 
Could someone with more law knowledge explain.... I thought that pleading the 5th meant you didn't have to give information that would show that you are guilty and that it was after you were read your rights. So can't jesse not speaking be used against him?
 
How many times does it have to be said? There has been nothing released yet to indicate he raped the Fairfax woman.

We all assume he did, but no one yet knows he did.

<BBM>
Huh? How many msm article links would you like, ksj3?
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...-charlottesville-missing-girls-link/16286959/
Sep 26, 2014 - Jesse Matthew, 32, was arrested Wednesday in Galveston, Texas and is charged in ... In 2012, the FBI released a sketch of a man they believe is responsible ... The sketch came from the victim in a 2005 Fairfax City rape case.
___________
FBI Washington
June 13, 2012
Sexual Assault in Fairfax City, Virginia
http://www.fbi.gov/washingtondc/pre...dia-campaign-in-morgan-harrington-murder-case

On the evening of Saturday, September 24, 2005, a 26-year-old victim was walking home from the Giant Food Store located on the 3700 block of Jermantown Road in Fairfax City, Virginia. The suspect grabbed the victim from behind as she walked down Rock Garden Drive toward her residence. He then carried the victim to a grassy area behind a maintenance shed, where he sexually assaulted her
On the evening of Saturday, September 24, 2005, a 26-year-old victim was walking home from the Giant Food Store located on the 3700 block of Jermantown Road in Fairfax City, Virginia. The suspect grabbed the victim from behind as she walked down Rock Garden Drive toward her residence. He then carried the victim to a grassy area behind a maintenance shed, where he sexually assaulted her.
 
Could someone with more law knowledge explain.... I thought that pleading the 5th meant you didn't have to give information that would show that you are guilty and that it was after you were read your rights. So can't jesse not speaking be used against him?

No, you generally cannot point to the defendant exercising his right to remain silent as a sign of guilt IF he is remaining silent because he says he's invoking his 5th amendment right. Whether they can use his silence otherwise is very muddled.
 
Could someone with more law knowledge explain.... I thought that pleading the 5th meant you didn't have to give information that would show that you are guilty and that it was after you were read your rights. So can't jesse not speaking be used against him?

Absolutely 100% it cannot be used against him. No negative inference can be applied in a criminal proceeding where a defendant elects to assert his or her 5th amendment right against self incrimination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
<BBM>
Huh? How many msm article links would you like, ksj3?
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...-charlottesville-missing-girls-link/16286959/
Sep 26, 2014 - Jesse Matthew, 32, was arrested Wednesday in Galveston, Texas and is charged in ... In 2012, the FBI released a sketch of a man they believe is responsible ... The sketch came from the victim in a 2005 Fairfax City rape case.

What does that even mean? Yes, JM looks a lot like the sketch. So do a lot of other people.

Has LE once indicated that JM is the Fairfax perp? If so, please provide a link and I'll be happy to call him the Fairfax rapist/Morgan Harrington murderer.

LE has indicated there is a forensic link between him (A) and MH (B). We know there is a DNA link between MH (B) and Fairfax (C). One can then presume there is a link between A and C. One cannot know that as fact.

D could be someone yet to be found has a DNA link with C and B.
 
What does that even mean? Yes, JM looks a lot like the sketch. So do a lot of other people.

Has LE once indicated that JM is the Fairfax perp? If so, please provide a link and I'll be happy to call him the Fairfax rapist/Morgan Harrington murderer.

LE has indicated there is a forensic link between him (A) and MH (B). We know there is a DNA link between MH (B) and Fairfax (C). One can then presume there is a link between A and C. One cannot know that as fact.

D could be someone yet to be found has a DNA link with C and B.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis
Combined DNA Index System (CODIS)

Mission

The CODIS Unit manages the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and the National DNA Index System (NDIS) and is responsible for developing, providing, and supporting the CODIS Program to federal, state, and local crime laboratories in the United States and selected international law enforcement crime laboratories to foster the exchange and comparison of forensic DNA evidence from violent crime investigations.
 
It could have been seen earlier during a search and then they searched the vehicle on 10-1 or 10-2 once they looked up the VIN and knew it was his old vehicle. That might fit with the 2 week timeframe

I think I saw a broadcast piece when they first did the search of the taxi, it looked like a by barn, blue (not to be trusted) mini van. Is that the one they're talking about? Sorry, catching up. You guys are great.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
96
Guests online
427
Total visitors
523

Forum statistics

Threads
608,246
Messages
18,236,785
Members
234,325
Latest member
davenotwayne
Back
Top