Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[cady]

Trouble is, the family can't speak with him privately and they have lawyered up so that they will not talk to LE. I wish LE could explain to them WHY they are certain that he is responsible for Hannah's fate so that they could get information out of him..............but that will not happen. I do like the idea of charging his sister for aiding in his escape to Texas, though. I doubt that he stole her car, rather, she gave him the keys. JMO

 

[jamicat]

I took that message on the envelope to mean he's looking for magic, JMO.

How far could a drunk drive knowing he could be pulled over by LE? It's not the same situation as with MH - he wasn't drunk then. I'm going with closer rather than far away. 11.6 miles to Earlysville seems a long way to drive for a drunk with HG in the car.

It's junk mail. Others have gotten the same.

I agree. He might have dropped her off somewhere close initially and then gone back to hide her better. That's why his time line is needed. But he's a big guy, and so may not have been all that drunk. Seems like drinking check points were not up that morning--he left the perfect time, after last call, to run into one, but then he might have known where they all are. He is a native of Charlottesville, apparently a regular on the bar scene, and he drove a cab for some time. I thought LE was staying with 8 miles anyways--maybe Earlysville road goes within that area, and it's not Earlysvillle proper that is being searched.

 

[ksj3]

And its on the Elizabeth River however it appears populated

If he dumped it in the bay, it would have floated down river.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I do not think packs of dogs work. They interact with each other and do not search. One dog and one dog handler is best. I have never read the distance needed between search teams.

Ya, thats not really how K-9 search teams work.
K-9 SAR teams don't just forget what they are doing and start playing with the other dogs. A well trained K9 that is part of a SAR team couldnt care less about what the other dogs are doing. They are listening to their handlers commands and are on task while working.
I have worked and trained with teams of 6+ SAR dogs, and believe me, they are nothing but focused on the task at hand. Many of the dogs even get so emotionally tied into the SAR that they become broken for any future SAR.
Read about the 9-11 SAR dogs.

 

[Le Singe]

I guess what I meant was someone who saw him alone after Hannah was seen with him

To get some idea of what time he got home
It would/may help in figuring out how much time he had to do whatever he did and how far he could have traveled

I don't think we can be sure LE doesn't already have some of that information since we haven't even heard the slightest of peeps of them wanting to search anywhere but in the close vicinity of c'ville. That just a guess on my part it is equally or maybe even more probable that they are searching where they are because they are just playing the odds.

 

[lizzybeth]

Not sure if anyone is missing in this area but isnt JMs dad from Chesapeake? http://wtkr.com/2014/10/08/womans-body-found-in-chesapeake-marsh-area/

I was just getting here to post this. It's a long shot but they have said it definitely is the body of a woman.

 

[FindHG]

I took that message on the envelope to mean he's looking for magic, JMO.

How far could a drunk drive knowing he could be pulled over by LE? It's not the same situation as with MH - he wasn't drunk then. I'm going with closer rather than far away. 11.6 miles to Earlysville seems a long way to drive for a drunk with HG in the car.

I took as his having a way to make new approaches, new creds, a new kind of bait, since the taxi, the orderly cover was done. If it meant anything at all, it would not be in that car still.

 

[SteveP]

At the risk of seeming morbid, we are almost at the 4-week mark since Hannah disappeared. If we assume she was killed the early morning that she was last seen, and I believe she most likely was, if she is above ground somewhere, covered by brush or leaves, and wildlife hasn't gotten to her, what would searchers be looking for? What I am asking is how decomposed the body would be now...largely recognizable as a human body? Or would it already be mostly skeleton? Would bones not broken by her killer still be largely intact? I know some of these answers are somewhat dependent on the weather. Has it been cool at night? Mild or hot during the days? How would this differ if she was found in a shallow grave?

 

[leilarose68]

I was just getting here to post this. It's a long shot but they have said it definitely is the body of a woman.

if LE talked to JM's roommates they probably would have known if he traveled far to dump a body + would have increased the search parameters, right?

also, how common or uncommon is it for bodies to be found in the chesapeake/how often?

 

[whiskers]

Thank you for educating me how it works. I really had no idea. Really fascinating how dedicated they are. How many dogs and handlers could cover one farm? Say a farm of about 600 acres?

Ya, thats not really how K-9 search teams work.
K-9 SAR teams don't just forget what they are doing and start playing with the other dogs. A well trained K9 that is part of a SAR team couldnt care less about what the other dogs are doing. They are listening to their handlers commands and are on task while working.
I have worked and trained with teams of 6+ SAR dogs, and believe me, they are nothing but focused on the task at hand. Many of the dogs even get so emotionally tied into the SAR that they become broken for any future SAR.
Read about the 9-11 SAR dogs.

 

[ksj3]

if LE talked to JM's roommates they probably would have known if he traveled far to dump a body + would have increased the search parameters, right?

also, how common or uncommon is it for bodies to be found in the chesapeake/how often?

Not common, but report now says they've (at least tenatively) ID'ed her, she had a backpack, had been missing since Sunday, and was said to have been suicidal.

http://wtkr.com/2014/10/08/womans-body-found-in-chesapeake-marsh-area/

Back to Earlysville.

 

[Le Singe]

The attorney would tell the family to keep quiet, to reaffirm to JM to keep quiet, that there really isn't that much evidence against him and that he well could be innocent, which is what they would want to hear. They've heard his side of the story, that , yes, he met the girl, hung around her, and then left her alive, and now he's in trouble. Without more evidence they are not going to believe he did harm. They are going to believe that "foolishness" from college is what has everyone thinking he did this,not the facts of the case. I don't think family and close friends ae at the 'end of the road" yet with him. There will have to be more evidence and hopefuly if Hannah is found, there will be.

agree no matter what the evidence families sometimes can accept their loved ones are guilty. I can't blame them for that.

 

[razzledazzle]

Not sure if anyone is missing in this area but isnt JMs dad from Chesapeake? http://wtkr.com/2014/10/08/womans-body-found-in-chesapeake-marsh-area/

They have preliminarily identified this woman through the ID in the backpack found near her...missing since Sunday and was suicidal.


ETA - Oops - I see someone covered this already...

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Thank you for educating me how it works. I really had no idea. Really fascinating how dedicated they are. How many dogs and handlers could cover one farm? Say a farm of about 600 acres?

So thats a really complicated question. Many factors will come into play. Terrain, weather, trigger items (IE, What are they using as a search target) what kind of dogs(Airscent dogs, trailing dogs, or tracking dogs) wind speed and direction.
Most certified airscent dogs have a scent range of around a 1/4 mile.
1 Square mile is 640 Acres. So, if I knew the kind of dogs being used, and the amount of dogs I could calculate the amount of time it would take to search 600 acres. But again, with all the external factors, its usually just an estimate.
Dont get the wrong idea, this isnt just a dozen dogs running around 600 acres, each team and handler is systematically searching with a grid system.

 

[Foxfire]

At the risk of seeming morbid, we are almost at the 4-week mark since Hannah disappeared. If we assume she was killed the early morning that she was last seen, and I believe she most likely was, if she is above ground somewhere, covered by brush or leaves, and wildlife hasn't gotten to her, what would searchers be looking for? What I am asking is how decomposed the body would be now...largely recognizable as a human body? Or would it already be mostly skeleton? Would bones not broken by her killer still be largely intact? I know some of these answers are somewhat dependent on the weather. Has it been cool at night? Mild or hot during the days? How would this differ if she was found in a shallow grave?

Lot of variables SteveP. Dependent on scavenger activity, whether lime was used in a shallow grave, body clothed or wrapped in a tarp, found on dry land, swamp, creek. etc.
There are many Body Farm UTK videos that are available on youtube that may answer your questions...

http://fac.utk.edu/

Body Farm UT Knoxville
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDU0X9VVQn4 <video> <Warning Graphic>

Research - The Forensic Anthropology Center:
Dr. William M. Bass arrived at The University of Tennessee Knoxville in 1971. He oversaw the development of the forensic anthropology program at UTK, which culminated in the creation of the Forensic Anthropology Center within the Department of Anthropology.

The Anthropology Research Facility is the first of its kind to permit systematic study of human decomposition. The 1.3 acres of land made famous by Dr. Bass will soon be expanding. This addition will allow for studies using advanced technology to quantify how bodies interact with the environment.
The skeletal collections provide unparalleled opportunities to study modern human skeletal variation, pathology and trauma. The hallmark of these collections is the Bass Donated Skeletal Collection that now consists of nearly 1000 individuals, the largest collection of contemporary human skeletons in the United States.
<sniped - read More>

 

[monkey222]

Does the area outside of Tempo bar have red light cameras, or highway traffic cams? I assume all.have been searched for orange damaged front car sightings from Sat early am..til following week when his car was impounded

 

[squiddy]

I just wish there was someone who had seen JM after he left Tempo with Hannah
Some one who could say I saw him at X o'clock
He was last seen on video (AFAIK) after one

If LE knew when he was next seen, it may give them some idea of how far he may have traveled
Or how near

This kind of bugs me. From my house, I can see at least 5 places with one or several surveillance cameras - 2 homes, a school, and two storefronts.

Instead of just asking for "businesses" to look for HG, LE should ask everyone with a night surveillance cam within a 50 mi radius - homeowners, schools, traffic cams, businesses - to look for JLM's car during the early hours of the day Hannah disappeared.

Just knowing that, for example, "someone spotted JLM's car on Rt 29 at 4:00 am 10 miles south of C'ville" (and, please no one react to that - it's an example) would greatly reduce the the search radius - as it is, there's 360 degrees of possible directions he went and makes the search area unmanageable - just *one* sighting could really help in the search, and kind of surprised there hasn't been an explicit request (at least publicly) to have everyone with an external night camera review their recordings, even if they're nowhere near the Downtown Mall ...

 

[maureen718]

Ya, thats not really how K-9 search teams work.
K-9 SAR teams don't just forget what they are doing and start playing with the other dogs. A well trained K9 that is part of a SAR team couldnt care less about what the other dogs are doing. They are listening to their handlers commands and are on task while working.
I have worked and trained with teams of 6+ SAR dogs, and believe me, they are nothing but focused on the task at hand. Many of the dogs even get so emotionally tied into the SAR that they become broken for any future SAR.
Read about the 9-11 SAR dogs.

Thank you for all the hard work you do everyday!!

 

[SilkySifaka]

I know where we are the leaves are turning and falling. We dug up part of our septic field and it looked a mess, now its a mass of leaves carpeting everything. You can't tell a hole has been dug or anything is in it.

This may make searching more difficult..if not impossible unless its boots on the ground everywhere

 

[dotr]

Can you make out the brand?

Unfamiliar with American smokes, maybe someone else can tell what brand they are?
Inside view of escape car items, @ 00: 52 - 1:02 approx.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...of-trek-from-va-to-bolivar-peninsula/28994136