Hannah Graham: The Search - #4

[themom]

JM never thought about the camera's and the story they would tell. I still have faith that there's more footage out there that will lead us to Hannah and answer many other questions.

That's a good point. Way more information on this compared to MH, and there are connections now, making this search much more critical.
I'm ready for this search to be successful.

 

[Foxfire]

Although I mostly lurk, I have struggled with all the references to HG and MH being "dumped," "dump sites," etc. Although that may be the way killers think, and it may be the way those (FBI, etc.) who research killers refer to locations, I just want to thank those here who refer to these victims as being "placed" in a location. We are a victim-friendly website, and IMO it is hard to hear any of us referring to these victims being "dumped" as if they are garbage. JMO and all that.

Richmond, I believe that I can speak for virtually every member on this forum, that the innocent victims are our primary concern. Everyone is someone's child. Many times the choice of descriptive words are necessary to distinguish as to how the remains/bodies were disposed of. Much info can be mined about the suspect as to how the remains/bodies were disposed, as well as where, etc..

<see 3.4.4>
Applied Crime Analysis: A Social Science Approach to Understanding Crime ...
By Wayne Petherick
http://books.google.com/books?id=I3...location as opposed to dumped geberth&f=false

 

[cluciano63]

Clearly JM is not helping or she would have been found, Imo.

 

[Foxfire]

(Please forgive another 'IF I were LE' post)

IF I were LE and had 300 bright-eyed, bush-tailed young FBI Academy whipper-snappers coming into town to help, I would email ahead and get them hopping on some research to answer questions and help to target the land/property searches for Hannah Graham when they get to C'ville:

- Genealogy of Carr and Matthew families, property records, court cases involving JLM's family that might cause grudges, feuds, etc.
- Connections to other disappearances and murders of women (particularly blonde preppy types) in area.
- Computerized comparisons to identify correlations of all the cases.
- Look at JLM cell phones (if he had multiple phones) data not for just recent since or just before HG was abducted, but for every rape, crime, disappearance, etc. as far back as they can go. (expedite this - tell a Judge they need to know if Hannah is still alive).

What else?

What would you ask the FEDs to do (if you were LE) to narrow the search?

Bet these FBI Academy whipper-snappers are all over the patterns, MOs, significant geographical areas, etc., in the many missing/murdered victims cases over the past decade in Charlottesville, VA and beyond, SolVol..

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/august/vicap_080408
FBI VICAP 08/04/08

ViCAP&#8217;s initial focus was transient/serial killers who crossed jurisdictional boundaries with impunity. But it expanded and now includes actual/attempted homicides, missing persons (believed victims of foul play), kidnappings (including child abductions), sexual assaults, and unidentified human remains. The database houses modus operandi, signature aspects, crime scene descriptions/photos, victim and suspect details, and other pertinent information.

ViCAP today. Our database contains about 150,000 open and closed violent crime investigations submitted by some 3,800 state and local law enforcement agencies&#8212;and includes some &#8220;cold cases&#8221; that go back to the 1950s.

Once cases are added, they are continually compared against other cases housed in the database. Based on common traits and similar modus operandi, cases that are possibly related are linked. Then our ViCAP analysts take over and give the process the human touch&#8212;looking for patterns to pinpoint crimes that may have been committed by the same offender, and hopefully generating new investigative leads.

ViCAP also offers additional assistance to our partners&#8212;including multi-agency coordination efforts, investigative support, case management help, crime mapping, case series matrices, and on-scene case assistance.
<sniped read more>

 

[bestill]

Clearly JM is not helping or she would have been found, Imo.

He's not helping because he knows what else he's done. I think there are a lot of answers yet to come. MOO

 

[klily444]

Bet these FBI Academy whipper-snappers are all over the patterns, MOs, significant geographical areas, etc., in the many missing/murdered victims cases over the past decade in Charlottesville, VA and beyond, SolVol..

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/august/vicap_080408
FBI VICAP 08/04/08

ViCAP&#8217;s initial focus was transient/serial killers who crossed jurisdictional boundaries with impunity. But it expanded and now includes actual/attempted homicides, missing persons (believed victims of foul play), kidnappings (including child abductions), sexual assaults, and unidentified human remains. The database houses modus operandi, signature aspects, crime scene descriptions/photos, victim and suspect details, and other pertinent information.

ViCAP today. Our database contains about 150,000 open and closed violent crime investigations submitted by some 3,800 state and local law enforcement agencies&#8212;and includes some &#8220;cold cases&#8221; that go back to the 1950s.

Once cases are added, they are continually compared against other cases housed in the database. Based on common traits and similar modus operandi, cases that are possibly related are linked. Then our ViCAP analysts take over and give the process the human touch&#8212;looking for patterns to pinpoint crimes that may have been committed by the same offender, and hopefully generating new investigative leads.

ViCAP also offers additional assistance to our partners&#8212;including multi-agency coordination efforts, investigative support, case management help, crime mapping, case series matrices, and on-scene case assistance.
<sniped read more>

Thank you for that. Maybe once they are in the picture, we will see some other cases connected to JM.

 

[Foxfire]

Well we know he didn't have one on his escape to Texas. He didn't even have a burner.

JM went dark.. Who does that remind you of, bestill?

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2013-01-23/news/israel-keyes-in-plane-sight/
On road trips when IK planned crimes, he "went dark," erasing any electronic trail.
Thirty-four years old, uncaring eyes set deep in a stony face, Keyes began to recite his modus operandi as if reading off a checklist from the serial killer's handbook.
Rule #1: Must have multiple personalities.

"There is no one who knows me," he said in a raspy voice, "or who has ever known me, who knows anything about me, really." Talk with them and you'll get the he-was-a-nice-quiet-guy answer.

There was the likable, easygoing Keyes, who became an atheist despite&#8212;or perhaps because of&#8212;being raised in a Bible-thumping home of 10 kids.
Rule #2: Pick your victims at random.
To anyone who would ask why he killed, Keyes would answer: "Why not?"

<sniped - read more>

 

[Heroine]

Laura French &#8207;@lfrenchnews 12m12 minutes ago

Due to forecasted severe weather, field search efforts for #HannahGraham have been called off for tomorrow & resume Thurs #BringHannahHome
Virginia, US

 

[SolVol]

Does anyone have a summary of Capt. Pleasants re: the search? Somehow I missed the broadcast.

Here's the podcast: http://wina.com/podcasts/captain-gary-pleasants-2/

 

[bestill]

JM went dark.. Who does that remind you of, bestill?

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2013-01-23/news/israel-keyes-in-plane-sight/
On road trips when IK planned crimes, he "went dark," erasing any electronic trail.
Thirty-four years old, uncaring eyes set deep in a stony face, Keyes began to recite his modus operandi as if reading off a checklist from the serial killer's handbook.
Rule #1: Must have multiple personalities.

"There is no one who knows me," he said in a raspy voice, "or who has ever known me, who knows anything about me, really." Talk with them and you'll get the he-was-a-nice-quiet-guy answer.

There was the likable, easygoing Keyes, who became an atheist despite&#8212;or perhaps because of&#8212;being raised in a Bible-thumping home of 10 kids.
Rule #2: Pick your victims at random.
To anyone who would ask why he killed, Keyes would answer: "Why not?"

<sniped - read more>

I don't know, I've only followed Heather Elvis, Beverly Carter and this case...enlighten me please!

 

[RSC]

I think it is because, with MH, they had no leads and no certainty about why she disappeared or even if she was deceased.
I think with HG, they are quite certain that she was murdered, they know who did it and want to be sure to convict him, and they know the killer's MO to some degree. They won't rest until they find her.

For those of you who followed the MH case - was the search this involved and long for her?

If not, do you get the feeling they are doing this bc they now suspect JM to be a SK and want to nail him, and/or find other bodies while they're at it?

 

[SolVol]

Bet these FBI Academy whipper-snappers are all over the patterns, MOs, significant geographical areas, etc., in the many missing/murdered victims cases over the past decade in Charlottesville, VA and beyond, SolVol..

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/august/vicap_080408
FBI VICAP 08/04/08

ViCAP’s initial focus was transient/serial killers who crossed jurisdictional boundaries with impunity. But it expanded and now includes actual/attempted homicides, missing persons (believed victims of foul play), kidnappings (including child abductions), sexual assaults, and unidentified human remains. The database houses modus operandi, signature aspects, crime scene descriptions/photos, victim and suspect details, and other pertinent information.

ViCAP today. Our database contains about 150,000 open and closed violent crime investigations submitted by some 3,800 state and local law enforcement agencies—and includes some “cold cases” that go back to the 1950s.

Once cases are added, they are continually compared against other cases housed in the database. Based on common traits and similar modus operandi, cases that are possibly related are linked. Then our ViCAP analysts take over and give the process the human touch—looking for patterns to pinpoint crimes that may have been committed by the same offender, and hopefully generating new investigative leads.

ViCAP also offers additional assistance to our partners—including multi-agency coordination efforts, investigative support, case management help, crime mapping, case series matrices, and on-scene case assistance.
<sniped read more>

THANKS, Foxfire - I hope our THREE HUNDRED (!!!) young whipper snappers use ALL their 'super powers' and 'super computers' on this case... and find a lot of answers for many hurting family members because Virginia has more than its share of missing and murdered women.

 

[Heroine]

Thank you for that. Maybe once they are in the picture, we will see some other cases connected to JM.

FBI is already in the picture actually. Have been for a while now. So, I can only assume that they are already working on it.

 

[klily444]

FBI is already in the picture actually. Have been for a while now. So, I can only assume that they are already working on it.

Sorry, I thought she was referring to VICAP, which I knew nothing about prior.

 

[neon_waterfall]

Very good point. That happens a lot in Virginia due to the terrain... so I would simply be guessing. Not sure.

It's complicated - because cell phones still record tracking data in their location cache even when they can't establish a viable connection to the cell network. If it's got GPS enabled, it'll record those coordinates. If it's connected to a wireless network, it'll capture that info. If it's got an accelerometer, which they pretty much all do, it can determine your compass bearing, etc.

This location cache along with the data from the towers and some heavy computational power can be used to guesstimate the cell's location and how it travelled between two points. How many sensors are active and for how long determines how accurate this is, of course.

Edward Snowden made his visitors turn off their cell phones, take out the battery out and place them in a fridge.

 

[SolVol]

Hi all,

I'm new to WS and am still catching up but have been really impressed by everyone's insights and analyses!

Anyway, I've been doing some genealogy searching and was able to find his grandfather's name but I'm not going to post it (against forum rules). However, it appears that he was buried in what was formerly called the Carr Family Cemetery, which (I think) is now part of the Ivy Creek Natural Area in Charlottesville. If you look it up, you can see that that area is just over a mile away from Albemarle High School (where I believe JM attended high school prior to transferring to Monticello... does anyone else remember reading this somewhere?).

Ivy Creek Natural Area is not only right by Ivy Creek, but also the South Fork of the Rivanna River.

FWIW, here are some other nearby cemeteries that appear to be associated with the family:
Rose Hill Cemetery
Oakwood Cemetery
Chapman Grove Baptist Church Cemetery


IMO/MOO

There is no one that could have been married to JLM's grandmother ******* Carr buried at the Hugh Carr family cemetery according to the map: http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/cem/db/cemetery/map/CRR/

Can you give us the initials of JLM's grandfather?

 

[EmmaRose]

Read this link about George Carr....http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/george-carr

This statement is interesting...."A few years later, during the early days of the Civil War, they bought a farm five miles northwest of Charlottesville. During the Revolution Hessian prisoners had been encamped there. It was there that George and Melinda raised their eight children."

Has this area been searched?

I just read this article on Huffington Post and it seems like Jesse's mother was a Carr.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5929602

 

[SolVol]

I just read this article on Huffington Post and it seems like Jesse's mother was a Carr.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5929602

Jesse's Grandmother is a Carr (either married or maiden name) and that is his mother's maiden name. I have not found his Grandfather's name.

Like you, I think the search should include Carr family lands, especially since JLM used 'George Carr' as an alias when apprehended in Texas.

I hope the FBI has genealogists and historians and property researchers among its experts.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Re: todays podcast on the search.
If they have some hot leads right now, he is not letting on to that. My take, from taking his words at face value, is we are nowhere closer than before and they are going to re-search some high probability areas that were dense and may not have been thoroughly searched the first time around, along with following up on leads from the tip line.

bbm
I'm glad to hear that some areas will be searched a second time. It makes me think of the case of Christina Williams, a young teenager who went missing in Monterey, CA back when I lived in the Bay Area (late '90s). She was missing for months; then her body was eventually found in some thick brush not that far from her home -- an area that had been searched previously, but apparently not thoroughly enough. She had disappeared while walking her dog.

Let's hope that the regrouping and a fresh set of searchers will find Hannah. What a huge thanks we owe to the searchers who have given their time over the past month searching for this lovely girl, hoping to bring some peace to her grieving family.

 

[SouthernSleuther]

Hi, all. This is my first post; however, I have followed many, many cases here and never cease to be amazed by the dedication and insightful posts in these threads. This is the case that has finally brought me out of lurkdom. I have felt in my gut from the beginning that this case was different, BIGGER, somehow, from the moment we had a suspect named. I do feel that Hannah will be found, and I feel it will be soon. The prominent FBI presence when JM was apprehended hinted that there was much more to this case, and the announcement of more FBI resources to come causes me to believe that they have significant information that will lead to her and probably much, much more.