Hannah Graham: The Search - #4

[Snoods]

Would you guess he knew about the significance of where he was?

You mean because Dean Corll buried some bodies on High Island? Well, I'm not one who thinks JM traveled to Bolivar because of some creepy serial killer kinship. For one thing Dean Corll sexually tortured and killed young boys. I would think if JM had a serial killer hero it would be someone more aligned with his own MO.

But I honestly don't think he understood the significance of where he was. IMO.

ETA: One thing I'd like to add is that Bolivar Peninsula is well known for fabulous fishing. He loved to fish, so a great place to set up his tent and live off the land for a while on a somewhat remote beach as the season is slowing down.

 

[zapped]

Yep, probably has a no contract (bad credit) TracFone or Virgin or something of that sort... but I've seen a lot of poor people with $600 iPhones!

If you watch the video of JLM in Texas he seems to be inordinately concerted about appearances.For some reason this rings true to me given his background as a football star with people wearing "I love LJ" t-shirts in high school and all the attention that was likely lavished on him.

I can see a narcissist paying 600 bucks for a cell phone and then having it unlocked for a cheap plan.

I wonder if theres some way we can figure his narcissism into search efforts? We are all assuming that he placed HG as far away from MH as possible but maybe he didnt.

Theres also MHs shirt found on a busy street and not far from the Hessian Hills apartments, as if taunting the public and LE.

Maybe there is something like that at work with HG's location as well?

 

[zapped]

Flash flood watch through tomorrow morning. 2-3 inches of rain over a period of a few hours. (per NWS)

Flash floods, just like heavy snows, have been known to move or expose bodies. I am bummed that the search seems to be stalling but I am hoping that HG is found soon.

 

[ksj3]

Maybe there is something like that at work with HG's location as well?

snipped

I keep going back to football. A strategy. A play. I don't know football. Someone here must.

 

[FindHG]

If you watch the video of JLM in Texas he seems to be inordinately concerted about appearances.For some reason this rings true to me given his background as a football star with people wearing "I love LJ" t-shirts in high school and all the attention that was likely lavished on him.

I can see a narcissist paying 600 bucks for a cell phone and then having it unlocked for a cheap plan.

I wonder if theres some way we can figure his narcissism into search efforts? We are all assuming that he placed HG as far away from MH as possible but maybe he didnt.

Theres also MHs shirt found on a busy street and not far from the Hessian Hills apartments, as if taunting the public and LE.

Maybe there is something like that at work with HG's location as well?

That sounds reasonable to me. He seems to have done a good job looking out for himself until he was captured.

 

[Rolo]

I am of the opinion that like this guy who idolized Bundy, JM has a thing for the serial killer who used the Galveston beach as one of his mass burial sites. Why else would he go there? I don't get it.
I am starting to think there is a mass gravesite somewhere in VA where he's buried other victims. Anyone else feel this way?

IMHO I think there is probably some other reason why JM ended up on the Bolivar Peninsula. Whether it was family, friend or fishing related, IDK, but I just don't see him as someone who would be well-studied on SK's. And if he was, I don't see DC as someone he would want to emulate. Their targets and approach are so different. As unlikely as it seems, i'm more inclined to think his TX location was in no way associated with its infamous history. JMO and I'll be glad to eat humble pie if future info proves me totally clueless! :+)

 

[FindHG]

IMHO I think there is probably some other reason why JM ended up on the Bolivar Peninsula. Whether it was family, friend or fishing related, IDK, but I just don't see him as someone who would be well-studied on SK's. And if he was, I don't see DC as someone he would want to emulate. Their targets and approach are so different. As unlikely as it seems, i'm more inclined to think his TX location was in no way associated with its infamous history. JMO and I'll be glad to eat humble pie if future info proves me totally clueless! :+)

Yep. What's a little humble pie anyway when you're not eating alone? Right there with you. Good to say what you think, you never know where it may lead. Your interest counts.

 

[margarita25]

What's the latest guys? Tia.

 

[margarita25]

IMO JM had no idea about DC/HMM. Coincidence.

 

[margarita25]

My guess would be that he disposed of Hannah before going to Texas. jmo

 

[margarita25]

Trying for first time to post a map.
Don't know if this map is helpful... I can't quite figure out what we'd do with it, but I'm new here and I know many of you can sleuth all kinds of kinds! I've poked around a bit on his community group on f/b and with regards to his fishing it appears he had a group of "fishing buddies". In particular Bass fishing. Under the map are also 2 links to popular Bass fishing areas in/near Charlottesville.

I don't know if it's against rules to link a fishing forum, so mods please delete of course if off-limits. But I found some interesting location information among the conversations. If the second link is not allowed and gets snipped, it's inside a "Bassresources" website.

View attachment 61289
(go here to zoom and if you can't get the screen shot: http://www.hookandbullet.com/s/fishing-virginia/

http://charlottesville.avenuerealty...and-your-son-to-go-fishing-in-charlottesville

http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/45287-charlottesville-va-fishing-spots/
This one lists Ragged Mt. Lake as a good one for bass

Brilliant! Marking my spot to look at this tomorrow!!

 

[margarita25]

Jesse's Grandmother is a Carr (either married or maiden name) and that is his mother's maiden name. I have not found his Grandfather's name.

Like you, I think the search should include Carr family lands, especially since JLM used 'George Carr' as an alias when apprehended in Texas.

I hope the FBI has genealogists and historians and property researchers among its experts.

Indeed.

:bump:

 

[FindHG]

(Please forgive another 'IF I were LE' post)

IF I were LE and had 300 bright-eyed, bushy-tailed young FBI Academy whipper-snappers coming into town to help, I would email ahead and get them hopping on some research to answer questions and help to target the land/property searches for Hannah Graham when they get to C'ville:

- Genealogy of Carr and Matthew families, property records, court cases involving JLM's family that might cause grudges, feuds, etc.
- Connections to other disappearances and murders of women (particularly blonde preppy types) in area.
- Computerized comparisons to identify correlations of all the cases.
- Look at JLM cell phones (if he had multiple phones) data not for just recent since or just before HG was abducted, but for every rape, crime, disappearance, etc. as far back as they can go. (expedite this - tell a Judge they need to know if Hannah is still alive).

What else?

What would you ask the FEDs to do (if you were LE) to narrow the search?

To do a correlation of all the speeding tickets, times, and locations as it relates to all that may have been up with him. He may have been super cautious and deliberate when he knew it mattered, staying under the radar. He seems to have had a flip side for all parts of his personality, in this case speeding tickets. I'm not sure what it would mean, and I'm probably off the mark with this, but it may say something about locations.

 

[2Hope4]

May the land reveal Hannah's whereabouts!!! We're having severe weather right now. Heavy rains, flooding, high winds...if Hannah is buried somewhere in a shallow grave, or was placed near water, or on a hillside, may the weather help to reveal. I hate that money dictates how long a search can go on, but unless there is a strong tip, cell phone gps, pings, or witness sighting over that weekend, I'm not sure where else for them to search. I think LE has done a fantastic job in searching! They've started at last known location, they've searched areas near JLM's apartment, places they know he knew, etc., but at some point, I think we all realized they'd have to back off, hope for a hunter, landowner, hiker, etc., to help them along. The area is just too vast and varying terrain to believe the search could continue forever.

I know FBI students are coming in, and hopefully they'll see something that triggers a need to search a certain area, or research areas. Too many times we've seen areas that HAVE been search but the person's body is missed. When you sit and just think of their task, it's a wonder that as many people are found as they are. Just too many areas a body could be hidden.

And I wish those rewards included finding the body instead of just a safe return, or a conviction. Frankly the wording of most rewards means they'll never be given to anyone, so what's the point?? If the purpose is to motivate people to pay attention, and to help look for the missing person, well, the wording backfires, IMO. Anyone willing to put their time, energy, knowledge, etc., into going out and looking for a missing person, and so happens to find that person should get the reward. Only if the person was with a SAR organization or LE do I think it shouldn't be given. If a SAR group finds them, then give the reward to that organization so they can continue to help!!!

 

[Rolo]

I don't think anything he did was accidental. It just gruesome to think that it may have mattered to him enough to go there and that may have felt safe there somehow, in his element.

Being of a different mindset about how or why JM ended up in the Galveston area, I'm curious as to your thoughts that it is deliberate choice for rather gruesome reasons. I have read and appreciate many of your posts and just wonder what is it that leads you to believe there is a specific connection that would imply knowledge of the history of the area. I haven't seen or read anything that leads me to believe that JM would be likely to seriously study up on SKs, emulate their actions or make pilgrimages to their notorious sites.

it seems to me that most of what we have learned about JM indicates impulsivity, recklessness and someone frequently on the prowl for an opportunity. The active search for an opportunity (vulnerable target) may be a deliberate action, but I just don't see him having a game plan that places great significance on the actions of other SKs/predators or symbolism in his choice of locales.

This delving into his MO may seem a better fit for the "what we know about JLM" thread, but I believe who he is, and how he approaches his predation, informs where he would take his victim(s) and where he would leave them. And I think it is more likely that after a "successful" prowl, he would head to a fairly local area that he knows well, offers the privacy he needs and a place to leave his victim. If his MO is more sophisticated, strategic and/or symbolic that would open up an entirely new can of worms to search through.

I'd appreciate if you could elaborate on what leads you to believe his actions are much more deliberate and not "accidental" i.e., going to Galveston due to significance of the location.....and what do you think that could mean for where he might have taken HG? Not meant to be confrontational question in any way--just curious as to a different line of thinking. TIA :+)

 

[Rolo]

I have my own theory about how JM knew about and chose an obscure place like Bolivar Peninsula on Galveston Island to lay low. I'd be willing to bet he'd heard of Galveston Island because of the annual Beach Party Weekend. Maybe even been there himself partaking in the festivities.

Starting back in the '90's a black fraternity called Kappa Alpha Psi started hosting an annual Beach Party Weekend in Galveston every year. It grew every year until approximately 250,000 black college students (and non students) from all over the United States would converge upon Galveston for this event. It was a HUGE deal. But in later years it started to get out of control.



Back when JLM was in college the Beach Party Weekend in Galveston would have been in it's hayday. It was advertised heavily and well known to young black college students throughout the United States.

http://http://www.houstonpress.com/2002-04-11/news/beach-party-blues/

Thanks, Snoods, for this info! Now THIS makes sense to me as to how JM might know about Bolivar Peninsula. Perhaps he had gone to this wild party before and thought it would be a great out of the way spot where no one would be looking for him. And it is obscure enough to be a good possibility--with the caveat that he was much more noticeable there when it wasn't Beach Party Weekend!

 

[Rolo]

You mean because Dean Corll buried some bodies on High Island? Well, I'm not one who thinks JM traveled to Bolivar because of some creepy serial killer kinship. For one thing Dean Corll sexually tortured and killed young boys. I would think if JM had a serial killer hero it would be someone more aligned with his own MO.

But I honestly don't think he understood the significance of where he was. IMO.

ETA: One thing I'd like to add is that Bolivar Peninsula is well known for fabulous fishing. He loved to fish, so a great place to set up his tent and live off the land for a while on a somewhat remote beach as the season is slowing down.

Snoods, you've done it again! Posted something that jives completely with my thinking on this piece of the puzzle. Perhaps a party place with positive associations, several states away from where he was being sought and good fishing to boot. A likely set of reasons for that particular location, IMHO. And I am inclined to agree he probably was not aware of the significance of that place--(perhaps more humble pie....)

OT, but LOVE your signature line! It's the philosophy I live by--it's made a big difference for the 5 critters currently sharing our home, and many before them! :+)

 

[Rolo]

If you watch the video of JLM in Texas he seems to be inordinately concerted about appearances.For some reason this rings true to me given his background as a football star with people wearing "I love LJ" t-shirts in high school and all the attention that was likely lavished on him.

I can see a narcissist paying 600 bucks for a cell phone and then having it unlocked for a cheap plan.

I wonder if theres some way we can figure his narcissism into search efforts? We are all assuming that he placed HG as far away from MH as possible but maybe he didnt.

Theres also MHs shirt found on a busy street and not far from the Hessian Hills apartments, as if taunting the public and LE.

Maybe there is something like that at work with HG's location as well?

I'm curious about the connection you're making between narcissism and perhaps not taking HG as far away from MH as we might expect. My gut tells me you might be on to something but my brain can't quite wrap around it--don't think I'm firing on all cylinders at this late hour--but could you please elaborate a bit on your thinking. Could be a good springboard for some brainstorming. TIA

 

[Rolo]

snipped

I keep going back to football. A strategy. A play. I don't know football. Someone here must.

I don't know football strategy either, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what position he played. (I'm sure I could research it, but not tonight, so if anyone just happens to know.....) I would think the strategic thinking might be somewhat position-dependent? What is the role (world view) for that particular position? It would be helpful to know how his mind works and how well he "thinks on his feet".

Again, believing he is more of an impulsive sort, he might be quite competent in "flying by the seat of his pants". That could give him the ability to be flexible with obstacles and change course if need be. But I think it would be within a certain comfort zone. Just as all plays, whether the QB's call or (a new term I have heard this year) "situational football", it all happens on the field within a given set of parameters and rules.

I believe JM operates in a similar manner: a known comfort zone (which unfortunately could be quite large), certain parameters (opportunity, vulnerable target, remote, private, near water, etc) and a back-up plan, or at least some back-up ideas, if the preferred option doesn't pan out. I think he's more of a skater or dancer than a strategic planner. JMO, of course......

 

[Rolo]

Brilliant! Marking my spot to look at this tomorrow!!

How do you "mark you spot"? That would be very helpful. tia