Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Jmm124567]

I just google street view "walked" her entire route from McGrady's to the Mall. It is NASTY and very pedestrian unfriendly. The scale of the streets is big and there's not a lot of human non-car activity during the day, even, so I imagine she passed very few people on foot during her walk. The underpass would have caused me a near-meltdown at night if I were alone, so the running makes sense. The businesses along the route were mostly not retail and I imagine not opened at that time of night, which would have added to the spookiness. I also kept getting confused because streets shoot off in different directions, even though I had the map of where I was in the corner of the screen. I can see being spooked after ten or so minutes of walking that awful route at night. The mall must have seemed very inviting after that pedestrian-unfriendly strip mall route. I can't think of many places I'd less like to walk, even during the day.

This video from McGrady's you posted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw) look at the time stamp. It shows 00:55:14 as HG crosses the street leaving. I think this means 12:55 but it is said she was at McGrady's at 12:45. The time could have been set wrong but I think the police could be making a little mistake somewhere in there timeline. I think there could be some discrepancies and this is making the police think things like that HG thought she was on Main St. when she was really on Preston Ave. which makes no sense at all since there are street signs all around her and she was definitely looking at them.

 

[klily444]

Wow I must have missed this. So she never did stumble. The other video was edited to remove this gap of time where she is off camera which made it look like she stumbled off the side walk then came back a couple seconds later. She walked up to the McGrady's entrance either to try to get in or to get a better look on the patio. She for a fact did talk to the bouncer you see him walk up to her and you can see her gesturing her left arm as she talks to him. They talked for no more than several seconds. Police were saying the bouncer denied her entry now a person at McGrady's is saying something different.

I wonder what she was doing the 1 minute and 37 seconds she is off the camera. Maybe she walked to the next street right there to look at the sign to see where she was.

BBM- Probably both were said. Bouncer probably asked for ID. She didn't have any. She seemed distressed. He asked her if she is OK, and she said she's OK, she's just walking. (Probably what she really said is that she's OK, she's just been walking--as in, that's why she appeared disheveled or out of breath)

 

[LI-Mom]

I just watched 5 press conferences (Sept. 17, 19, 21, 23, 25) and I can't find the "world turned upside down" line. Does anyone have an idea when Longo said that? I know I saw him say it, but I can't find it, unless he said it in October?

I think in the McGrady's video Hannah had rubbery legs. When she walked off camera, and when she came back. It looks like she is under the influence of something, but it's not bad enough that she's stumbling around. To tell the doorman there that she's just walking is strange. It implies she isn't distressed or under duress, she doesn't ask for directions or for him to call her a cab. Just walking.

She gets to the DTM, and within minutes Jesse zeroes in on her and changes direction. He doesn't speed up until he reaches that group of kids that were behind Hannah. I wonder if he thought she might be with them, leading them, but she clearly begins to leave them in the dust and JM speeds up.

Now here is when I have a problem with the time situation. The video of WG is 1:06 and the video of JM with his arm on Hannah's waist is 1:08? Ok, we theorized it could have been JM's overbearing personality and doesn't mean she knew him. Yet, 1 minute later at 1:09, JM orders 2 drinks in Tempo and pays for them at 1:10. That doesn't seem like something strangers do. You let a guy buy you a drink 1-2 minutes after he introduces himself? It doesn't compute.

Originally, LE's timeline says they know Hannah was in Tempo with Jesse for about 15 minutes and they left together. Let's say that has them leaving at 1:25. Abby is positive it was after last call, 1:40 closer to 1:45. Now if Hannah had spoken with Jesse for 15 minutes outside Tempo before she let him buy her a drink, that would make sense. But the bar tab says drinks ordered at 1:09, paid for at 1:10. If Abby is right, they were in Tempo for 30-35 minutes. That means LE's initial timeline is wrong, but that came from a witness who probably wasn't paying attention to how long they were there.

This whole time thing smacks of 2 people that knew each other. Maybe Hannah wasn't at the DTM specifically to meet JM, they just ran into each other and decided to have a drink. But it does not seem to me that this was a stranger encounter, I'm sorry, it doesn't add up. And if they weren't strangers she would willingly get in his car.

To get back to the world turned upside down...I originally thought it referred to Hannah being drunk and lost, or getting a spiked drink at an earlier party. Now I think Longo said it because he knew in his heart Hannah wasn't alive by the time he gave his first press conference. She had been missing over 36 hours before it was reported to police. No one had heard from her, and no ransom demand was made. Statistically the odds were against her being found alive.

JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

BBM- Probably both were said. Bouncer probably asked for ID. She didn't have any. She seemed distressed. He asked her if she is OK, and she said she's OK, she's just walking. (Probably what she really said is that she's OK, she's just been walking--as in, that's why she appeared disheveled or out of breath)

I'm glad you mentioned that Hannah looks disheveled. That's what I see when I watch the video at McGrady's. She looks and act like something has already happened and she seems paranoid and scared. Might something have happened to Hannah during those unaccounted 45 minutes between the time she left the apartment bldg and the time she is seen at McGrady's?

 

[LG3]

I tend to agree with your theory. Just wanted to add that perhaps HG noticed or sensed WG following her (she was alert enough to pick up her pace when in the unsafe area near the gas station, thus showing an awareness for her safety), so willingly allowed JM to walk beside her. She may have even asked him to pretend he was her friend and make it look like they knew each other so WG would back off. Maybe JM suggested to HG that they go into a bar for a drink to allow WG to clear the area, thus explaining why somebody like HG would agree to hang out with JM. Didn't MH try to get strangers at the Metallica concert to pretend they were together in order to sneak back into JPJ arena? Anyway, I think HG may have viewed JM as her 'hero' or 'saviour' in that she was lost, tired, alone, drunk, and maybe scared. If JM could convince his friends and family that he was a 'giant teddy bear', then I don't think he would have any trouble smooth talking an innocent and vulnerable 18 year old girl. Once JM got HG into the bar I suspect he roofied her drink, which pretty much incapacitated her for the rest of the night, hence the sightings of HG leaning on JM as they left aroun 1:45am.
I don't think we will ever know for sure if WG's intentions for HG were innocent or evil. JMO.

I have posted this very theory a little while back and I think it is exactly how he befriended her so quickly. IMO he swooped in as the rescuer and immediately gained the trust of a girl who was in an unfamiliar place, surrounded by much older people partying on the downtown mall. It totally explains how WG said she appeared to know him.

 

[sixecho]

Wow I must have missed this. So she never did stumble. The other video was edited to remove this gap of time where she is off camera which made it look like she stumbled off the side walk then came back a couple seconds later. She walked up to the McGrady's entrance either to try to get in or to get a better look on the patio. She for a fact did talk to the bouncer you see him walk up to her and you can see her gesturing her left arm as she talks to him. They talked for no more than several seconds. Police were saying the bouncer denied her entry now a person at McGrady's is saying something different.

I wonder what she was doing the 1 minute and 37 seconds she is off the camera. Maybe she walked to the next street right there to look at the sign to see where she was.

Look at google maps via street view. McGrady's appears to have two entrances. She walks out of the frame and towards the first entrance. Why? That's the million dollar question.

 

[sixecho]

Wow I must have missed this. So she never did stumble. The other video was edited to remove this gap of time where she is off camera which made it look like she stumbled off the side walk then came back a couple seconds later. She walked up to the McGrady's entrance either to try to get in or to get a better look on the patio. She for a fact did talk to the bouncer you see him walk up to her and you can see her gesturing her left arm as she talks to him. They talked for no more than several seconds. Police were saying the bouncer denied her entry now a person at McGrady's is saying something different.

I wonder what she was doing the 1 minute and 37 seconds she is off the camera. Maybe she walked to the next street right there to look at the sign to see where she was.

Look at google maps via street view. McGrady's appears to have two entrances. She walks out of the frame and towards the first entrance. Why? That's the million dollar question.

 

[LG3]

Knowing how people can get defensive while drunk, like when asked or accused of being drunk, especially by a stranger, even the most intoxicated people often deny it. Perhaps the bouncer at McGrady's could tell she was drunk and sensed she was lost so he asked her if she was ok. She said "I'm ok, I'm just walking" as a defense to being presumed as drunk. Also factor in that she was underage - no college girl wants some bouncer to try to get her in trouble for being drunk and underage. Maybe that is why she gave such an odd response. Like "don't worry about me, don't pay attention to me, I'm fine, just walking"

 

[themom]

Y'all can laugh at me for this, but I just googled "meaning of whole world turned upside down" Here is what I got:
"turn someone's life/world upside down
to change someone's life completely, often in a way that is shocking or upsetting"

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/upside-down

Questions about the evening:
1. Why did she leave the party so quickly? She was there less than an hour
2. Where was she during the time prior to McGrady's?

In my opinion, this didn't have to do with a romantic interest. It was rumored that she wasn't seeing anyone and she wasn't even talking to anymore, and Hannah strikes me as the type that cares more about school, sports, and being with her girlfriends than putting her emotions into a boy. JMO. But it is possible that Longo, having access to her friends and possibly text messages, is alluding to something gone terribly wrong? My instincts tell me that at the first party, her drink was spiked with something...doesn't have to be a rape drug, but something....and she tried to run off the high. As in, make it go away. Then, I believe she was given a date rape drug at Tempo.

Are we sure Longo didn't just mean her world got turned upside down by meeting up w JM and disappearing?

How do we know he was alluding to her life turning upside down before JM?

 

[Charlie Chan]

My best friend went to UVa,and I visited often from another school a few hours away. This was in the 80's, before cells,gps, etc. Even back in the dark ages, and her as a first - year and me with even LESS knowledge of the area, we would NEVER have been able to "get lost" going from Hannah's original party to the Downtown Mall. It is on the other side of town, as those have posted before,NOT pedestrian friendly, way too far to reasonably walk "dressed up" and most importanty, signs everywhere. I truly believe that for some reason...a party,a rendez-vous, who knows.....I believe that she was not lost. It was her 2nd year at UVa....those students know the campus and the rest of C'ville. It is NOT that big. I just don't see her ending up where she was (or continuing there at a determined pace) unless that is where she intended to be. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[klily444]

I just watched 5 press conferences (Sept. 17, 19, 21, 23, 25) and I can't find the "world turned upside down" line. Does anyone have an idea when Longo said that? I know I saw him say it, but I can't find it, unless he said it in October?

I think in the McGrady's video Hannah had rubbery legs. When she walked off camera, and when she came back. It looks like she is under the influence of something, but it's not bad enough that she's stumbling around. To tell the doorman there that she's just walking is strange. It implies she isn't distressed or under duress, she doesn't ask for directions or for him to call her a cab. Just walking.

She gets to the DTM, and within minutes Jesse zeroes in on her and changes direction. He doesn't speed up until he reaches that group of kids that were behind Hannah. I wonder if he thought she might be with them, leading them, but she clearly begins to leave them in the dust and JM speeds up.

Now here is when I have a problem with the time situation. The video of WG is 1:06 and the video of JM with his arm on Hannah's waist is 1:08? Ok, we theorized it could have been JM's overbearing personality and doesn't mean she knew him. Yet, 1 minute later at 1:09, JM orders 2 drinks in Tempo and pays for them at 1:10. That doesn't seem like something strangers do. You let a guy buy you a drink 1-2 minutes after he introduces himself? It doesn't compute.

Originally, LE's timeline says they know Hannah was in Tempo with Jesse for about 15 minutes and they left together. Let's say that has them leaving at 1:25. Abby is positive it was after last call, 1:40 closer to 1:45. Now if Hannah had spoken with Jesse for 15 minutes outside Tempo before she let him buy her a drink, that would make sense. But the bar tab says drinks ordered at 1:09, paid for at 1:10. If Abby is right, they were in Tempo for 30-35 minutes. That means LE's initial timeline is wrong, but that came from a witness who probably wasn't paying attention to how long they were there.

This whole time thing smacks of 2 people that knew each other. Maybe Hannah wasn't at the DTM specifically to meet JM, they just ran into each other and decided to have a drink. But it does not seem to me that this was a stranger encounter, I'm sorry, it doesn't add up. And if they weren't strangers she would willingly get in his car.

To get back to the world turned upside down...I originally thought it referred to Hannah being drunk and lost, or getting a spiked drink at an earlier party. Now I think Longo said it because he knew in his heart Hannah wasn't alive by the time he gave his first press conference. She had been missing over 36 hours before it was reported to police. No one had heard from her, and no ransom demand was made. Statistically the odds were against her being found alive.

JMO

So many good points and thoughts here. First, lets hash out the world statement. Longo actually says, "And all of you know that on Friday night, Hannah left her apartment. She had dinner with friends. She went to a few other places. She socialized and then she left. And her world begins to get turned around at that point, I think. She makes her way to McGrady's pub and we learn that she interacts with the doorman there and she's turned away."

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1409/21/cnr.02.html

That has a whole different meaning to me. Sounds like she's lost, that's all. But, where was she during that time? Specifically, before McGrady's? Is Longo insinuating something about her state of mind, or did we over analyze this statement?

Next, about the timing of everything, as you explained, on the DTM. I would completely agree with you, that it is too short a timeframe to approach someone and then purchase the drink. But, how do we know the time on the camera is correct? What if it is 5 minutes off? What if the time on the register at Tempo is off? Would that make a difference? Because it's been brought up a lot that the timing of the cameras seem to have inaccuracies (not in the media, but here). I am still in the camp of "they probably did not know each other" but you bring up some really good points.

I still believe her drink was spiked at the first party, and I believe JM spiked her drink too, just not with the same thing as earlier, or she wouldn't have been running like we see earlier.

 

[klily444]

Are we sure Longo didn't just mean her world got turned upside down by meeting up w JM and disappearing?

How do we know he was alluding to her life turning upside down before JM?

Well, I looked up the exact quote online and actually, her world got turned around, not turned upside down. But, when Longo said this he was alluding to the time after the party and before McGrady's.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1409/21/cnr.02.html

A subtle change of words can mean a lot. It seems less ominous now, in context. As in, after she went to the party, she got very lost. Then she ended up at McGrady's.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Now here is when I have a problem with the time situation. The video of WG is 1:06 and the video of JM with his arm on Hannah's waist is 1:08? Ok, we theorized it could have been JM's overbearing personality and doesn't mean she knew him. Yet, 1 minute later at 1:09, JM orders 2 drinks in Tempo and pays for them at 1:10. That doesn't seem like something strangers do. You let a guy buy you a drink 1-2 minutes after he introduces himself? It doesn't compute.
JMO

**Snipped to reply to this paragraph

But the reports have said HG was planning to meet up later with friends for more partying. Maybe as she was talking to JM, she said she could use a drink, and he complied. I don't think it's odd that they got a drink so soon after meeting...especially since the bars were getting ready to close.

 

[Concerned Mama]

My best friend went to UVa,and I visited often from another school a few hours away. This was in the 80's, before cells,gps, etc. Even back in the dark ages, and her as a first - year and me with even LESS knowledge of the area, we would NEVER have been able to "get lost" going from Hannah's original party to the Downtown Mall. It is on the other side of town, as those have posted before,NOT pedestrian friendly, way too far to reasonably walk "dressed up" and most importanty, signs everywhere. I truly believe that for some reason...a party,a rendez-vous, who knows.....I believe that she was not lost. It was her 2nd year at UVa....those students know the campus and the rest of C'ville. It is NOT that big. I just don't see her ending up where she was (or continuing there at a determined pace) unless that is where she intended to be. Just my opinion, of course.

Yeah, I've always had a problem with this, too. In all of my four years at UVa in the late '80s, I can count on one hand how many times I visited the Downtown Mall -- and even then, it was by car, not on foot. I just can't understand how she would continue all the way down Preston Ave. and into the downtown area if she were truly lost. The video at the gas station shows her running, implying to me that she knows it's not safe so she's trying to reach her destination more quickly. If she were trying to make her way back to 14th St., I cannot see how on earth she'd think she was headed in the right direction to get there. As has been mentioned many, many times, Hannah had an iPhone with GPS. Even if she was under the influence of alcohol, I still believe she would have had enough of her senses to use GPS to plug in her destination if she weren't familiar with her surroundings.

I don't know if we'll ever find out what led Hannah to the Downtown Mall that night, but it just does not make sense to me. The distance she covered really does imply to me that she had to know she was headed far away from the UVa part of town. Did she receive a text or information from somebody that would have led her first to McGrady's, and then on to the Downtown Mall? I can't help but think we'll never know.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Oh, and this:

Another long shot but going to throw it out there… The Sal's video has been strange to me on several counts already discussed here but it's also bothered me how JM is walking and doesn't even seem to turn his head her direction yet somehow seconds later is following her. Did he "eye" her walking towards him before the area that the video catches? He doesn't miss a beat.
And then it just dawned on me that possibly he somehow picked up on white guy's actions (although it's not apparent anywhere on video) and positioned himself as "protecting" HG from the WG. Maybe that's how he was able to get his arm around her so fast. "Hey, I just noticed this guy watching you. Stick with me." And then it would seem even more convincing considering WG DOES keep following them. Maybe JM looked like a real saint at that moment and she started to let her guard down with him. He buys her drink, promises to get her home safe, etc. ESPECIALLY if her phone battery was dying/dead.

bbm

I've talked about your theory in a couple of other threads. It's soooo plausible! You can take WG out of the scenario and it's still plausible. JLM stepping in as a concerned citizen to help a damsel in distress.
:hills:

 

[Jmm124567]

JM and HG may have not even stopped to talk when they met

Is that groups of guys walking behind HG in the Sal's video walking behind her and JM in the Tuel's video?

Watch the videos from Tuel's and Sal's. There is that group of guys walking behind HG in the Sal's video. Well in the Tuel video I think those guys are walking behind her and JM. I can't exactly tell though if it is the same group of guys but if it is this would mean that when JM made contact with HG in the mall they didn't stop to talk. If they would have stopped and talked that group of guys would have walked passed them.

 

[Jmm124567]

Look at google maps via street view. McGrady's appears to have two entrances. She walks out of the frame and towards the first entrance. Why? That's the million dollar question.

I did and your incorrect. She continues to walk on the sidewalk down the road and at some point turned around. As you can see in the photo below it is the same path to both entrances. She walked down the road then turned around and came back to McGrady's and walked up the path to the entrances. That one entrance there I'm not even sure if that is for McGrady's and if it is it may be locked.

 

[Charlie Chan]

I "think" that this is the correct thread to place this comment. It's about JM's car and how I think LE may have put two and two together. I think that a business had a webcam and that orange car was seen speeding by it (in the direction of Old Lynchburg Road) and then, X number of hours later, that same VERY distinct car was seen "returning" to town. That could be how they knew what kind of car to look for? Dark, grainy but still could make it out somewhat. Then, the two videos show JM with HG...he drives that car. It fit. And perhaps gave LE an idea of the final part of HG's journey looked like. Is this crazy? Because to my knowledge, we never learned how LE knew to look for this car.

 

[Jmm124567]

Yeah, I've always had a problem with this, too. In all of my four years at UVa in the late '80s, I can count on one hand how many times I visited the Downtown Mall -- and even then, it was by car, not on foot. I just can't understand how she would continue all the way down Preston Ave. and into the downtown area if she were truly lost. The video at the gas station shows her running, implying to me that she knows it's not safe so she's trying to reach her destination more quickly. If she were trying to make her way back to 14th St., I cannot see how on earth she'd think she was headed in the right direction to get there. As has been mentioned many, many times, Hannah had an iPhone with GPS. Even if she was under the influence of alcohol, I still believe she would have had enough of her senses to use GPS to plug in her destination if she weren't familiar with her surroundings.

I don't know if we'll ever find out what led Hannah to the Downtown Mall that night, but it just does not make sense to me. The distance she covered really does imply to me that she had to know she was headed far away from the UVa part of town. Did she receive a text or information from somebody that would have led her first to McGrady's, and then on to the Downtown Mall? I can't help but think we'll never know.

Yeah and on top of it the streets are numbered which would be helpful. Walking on Preston Ave. towards UVA the numbers get larger and walking towards the DTM the numbers get smaller. It really seems like she was not trying to go home but was looking for some place. The police are acting like HG not only was lost but didn't even know what street she was on for example they say she thought she was on Main when really she was on Preston. I don't buy it there are signs all around her and she was looking at them. I don't understand what makes police think this I have a feeling there timeline may be off or something.

And you notice how she turns down 2nd St. to go into the DTM. I don't think that was just some random turn. I think she knew the mall was there and she knew where she was going. 2nd St. is the first street that leads into the DTM from the direction she was walking.

 

[sixecho]

I did and your incorrect. She continues to walk on the sidewalk down the road and at some point turned around. As you can see in the photo below it is the same path to both entrances. She walked down the road then turned around and came back to McGrady's and walked up the path to the entrances. That one entrance there I'm not even sure if that is for McGrady's and if it is it may be locked.

View attachment 62394

Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry. I was wrong. I always thought the door to the far right was a part of McGrady's. Now I see that it's most likely not. Anyone know if that door is part of McGrady's?