Haunting Evidence: JonBenet Ramsey

[CathyR]

I read it here on the forum that the birefringent material was paint from the paintbrush. When I go and reread the posts I am in error it could be paint but it also lists a few others things it could have been. The exact answer as to what it is has not been revealed by the BPD.

 

[BBB167893]

Here is a link that explains what a hymen is and it provides photos of abnormalities.
none of the terms used to describe these abnormalities or the absence of a hymen is used in the autopsy report. The actual report and not the "let me explain this for you version" that is available online. I can see where you are getting your misinformation, it is not your fault, whoever decided we were too dumb to understand the official report is to blame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymen

Ease off your throttle, CathyR. Maybe I can help you out. This is from chapter four:

During JonBenet's autopsy, Dr. John Meyer examined her vagina. Here's what he found, from the actual report:

"A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1x1 cm hymeneal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise from between the 2:00 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and the distal right vaginal wall."

Okay, for you regular people, that means that JonBenet's hymen was scratched. It has been established that her vagina was violated the night of her death. But the "1x1 cm hymeneal orifice" is the bell-ringer here. That means that the opening in JonBenet's six-year-old hymen was one centimeter by one centimeter. This is twice the size of a so-called normal hymeneal opening for a girl this age. In a September 1999 study for the Medical Journal Family Medicine titled "Genital Findings in Prepubertal Girls Evaluated for Sexual Abuse: A Different Perspective on Hymeneal Measurements," Dr. Perry Pugno said:

"Girls with no definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 2.3 mm and in general showed an increase of approximately 1 mm per year of age. Girls with definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 9.0 mm and no significant variance with age. Correcting for age differences, the transhymenal diameter was highly significant as a differentiating factor (F=1079, P<.001). When compared against the criterion standard, the transhymenal measurement is 99% specific and 79% sensitive as a screening tool."

These findings imply an "expected" hymeneal opening size of 6 mm for someone JonBenet's age; her actual opening size, 1 cm, placed her in the mid-range of sizes observed in this study among six-year olds known to have been abused. In fact, hymeneal sizes alone are not enough to say with any degree of certainty that JonBenet was the victim of long-term sexual abuse, but the autopsy report shows more than just hymeneal damage. Again, from the report:

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen."

Inflammation refers to an irritation that may involve pain, redness, heat (thus the term) and swelling. Here, take your fingernails and scratch your arm. Did you see how the skin became red? That's because the blood has come to the surface to heal the injury. This is known as acute inflammation. That means that JonBenet's vagina was injured or irritated and her body's systems went to work to try and heal her. It's the chronic part that seals the deal. The Bantam Medical Dictionary defines "chronic" as a disease or injury of long duration, and states that when healing does not occur, inflammation becomes chronic. In plain English, that means that JonBenet had old inflammation that had not been allowed to heal. This did not happen all at once. Even more damning is the term "erosion." No point in trying to obfuscate the issue: that means that layers of flesh in JonBenet's vagina had been worn away over time; stripped away by continuous invasion. Old and new vaginal injuries. It couldn't be any plainer than that.

In his book, Det. Thomas states:

"In mid-September, a panel of pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation - that JonBenet had suffered vaginal trauma prior to the day she was killed. There were no dissenting opinions among them on the issue, and they firmly rejected any possibility that the trauma to the hymen and chronic vaginal inflammation were caused by urination issues or masturbation. We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries 'consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse' ' There was chronic abuse'. . . 'Past violation of the vagina'. . .'Evidence of both acute and injury and chronic sexual abuse.' In other words, the doctors were saying it had happened before."

Thomas does not name these experts. But other sources, including Schiller's book, do name them. Their names read as follows:

-Dr. James Monteleone, Professor of Pediatrics at St. Louis University School of Medicine (and Director of Child Protection Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital);
-Dr. David Jones, Professor of Preventative Medicine and Biometrics at University of Colorado Health Sciences Center;
-Dr. Ronald Wright, former Medical Examiner, Cook County Illinois;
-Dr. Virginia Rau of Dade County, Florida;
-and Dr. John McCann, Clinical Professor of Medicine, Department. of Pediatrics at University of California at Davis.

"According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.
"There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim. A generalized increase in redness of the tissues of the vestibule was apparent, and small red flecks of blood were visible around the perineum and the external surface of the genitalia." He also talked about the injury from that night, saying, "the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in &#8211; not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger. McCann also noted that in children of this age group the labia, or vaginal lips, remain closed until literally manually separated. In order for there to be an injury to the hymen without injuring the labia, the labia would have to be manually separated before the object was inserted. The examination also indicated that the assault was done while the child was still alive because of the redness in the surrounding tissue and blood in the area. McCann stated that this injury would have been very painful because the area of the injury as indicated by the bruise was at the base of the hymen were most of the nerve endings are located. Such an injury would have caused a six year old child to scream or yell. The doctor also stated that he assumed the object did not have jagged edges because there were no evidence of tears in the bruised area." To qualify his report, Dr. McCann explained "the term 'chronic abuse' meant only that it was 'repeated', but that the number of incidents could not be determined. In the case of JonBenet, the doctor could only say that there was evidence of 'prior abuse'. The examination results were evidence that there was at least one prior penetration of the vagina through the hymeneal membrane. The change in the hymeneal structure is due to healing from a prior penetration. However, it was not possible to determine the number of incidents nor over what period of time. Because the prior injury had healed, any other incidents of abuse probably were more than 10 days prior." He explained that the most common perpetrators of sexual abuse are those with whom the child has close contact with, usually a family member. Increased bedwetting is also a possible sign, he said.

McCann, Jones, Monteleone, Wright, Krugman, and a pathologist named Werner Spitz did not just examine the report and autopsy photographs of JonBenet's vagina. The most important evidence came from tissue slides. These professionals examined samples of tissue cut from JonBenet's vagina under a microscope, to be extra sure. As Det. Thomas states, "there were no dissenting opinions."

Now, let's get into some of your specific questions:

It is those experts I'm speaking about and the manner the data was given to them to compare. Were they aware of JBR's long history with vaginitis and UTI's. Were they aware of the assault just prior to death?

Yes, they were.

If this panel of experts were willing to proceed I'm sure the DA would have done so already.

You'll have to excuse me if I balk a bit at that assertion.

I guess what I'm saying is, you can argue each point separately. But when you put it all together: the injuries, the behavioral issues, JB being "too friendly," and flirting, etc., it's not a big leap.

 

[minazoe]

quacks like a duck...

 

[CathyR]

Burke would have discussed this with friends? Highly unlikely, close to impossible.

John can be a situational child sexual predator, oftentimes they don't go outside of the family. His "tendencies" could have died with JonBenet. Not every child molester is the same, you can't simply paint them all with the same brush. The only thing they all share, is a very twisted mind. imo

If he was the guilty party and does not have a psychopathic personality he might have alluded to it, not come right out with a confession but more like......

someone may have bullied him or said something he didn't like and he stated I wouldn't do that my sister tried that sh** and look at where she ended up.

Why does Melinda state her Dad never did anything to her, even spanking her. Nothing that would be considered abusive.

Are you saying John had a thing for JBR only. He became a molester later in life and it died when JBR did.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If he was the guilty party and does not have a psychopathic personality he might have alluded to it, not come right out with a confession but more like......

someone may have bullied him or said something he didn't like and he stated I wouldn't do that my sister tried that sh** and look at where she ended up.

Why does Melinda state her Dad never did anything to her, even spanking her. Nothing that would be considered abusive.

Are you saying John had a thing for JBR only. He became a molester later in life and it died when JBR did.

No, I didn't say that. I said it was POSSIBLE. It happens. Fathers sometimes pick ONE daughter to molest and leave the rest alone.

 

[BBB167893]

Why does Melinda state her Dad never did anything to her, even spanking her. Nothing that would be considered abusive.

Are you saying John had a thing for JBR only. He became a molester later in life and it died when JBR did.

This would fit the general idea of a situational molester. Just saying.

 

[DeeDee249]

No, I didn't say that. I said it was POSSIBLE. It happens. Fathers sometimes pick ONE daughter to molest and leave the rest alone.

There was a big difference between JR's older daughters and JB. JB was sexualized in her dress, mannerisms and behavior. She was taught to be flirty, then Patsy goes and complains about the very thing she was coaching her daughter to do. What Patsy obviously didn't understand was that a 6-year old can't turn it on when she's on stage and turn it off in her everyday life. JB acted the way she was taught to act. She was dressed like a Vegas showgirl, and the look in her eye and her mannerisms on stage were anything BUT those of a normal little girl.
That's why she always WON.

 

[DeeDee249]

I will provide links as no where in her autopsy report does it say that. In fact it is measured to be 1x1 cm and it was damaged due to the assault but not torn.

http://zyberzoom.com/JBRAutopsy.html


My Bold.

On the anterior aspect of the perineum, along the edges of closure of the labia majora, is a small amount of dried blood. A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present on the skin of the fourchette and in the vestibule. Inside the vestibule of the vagina and along the distal vaginal wall is reddish hyperemia. This hyperemia is circumferential and perhaps more noticeable on the right side and posteriorly. The hyperemia also appears to extend just inside the vaginal orifice. A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 x 1 cm hymeneal orifice. tThe hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to he hymen. On the right labia majora is a very faint area of violent discoloration measuring approximately one inch by three-eighths of an inch. Incision into the underlying subcutaneous tissue discloses no hemorrhage. A minimal amount of semiliquid thin watery red fluid is present in the vaginal vault. No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified.

That is EXACTLY the description that PROVES the hymen was NOT intact. An abraded or eroded hymen is NOT intact. It doesn't have to be torn. JB's hymen was not a normal finding in a child.

 

[claudicici]

what says it all to me is 1x1cm hymeneal orifice,how can that happen that one time???
that's the size of a grown woman starting to dilate about to give birth!
what's the regular size for a 6 year old? A few millimeters? I can't imagine it to be more...

 

[madeleine]

Why does Melinda state her Dad never did anything to her, even spanking her. Nothing that would be considered abusive.

Are you saying John had a thing for JBR only. He became a molester later in life and it died when JBR did.

Dunno.What I am sure of though is that Beths death changed him.A lot.And his wife's disease probably changed him as well.This doesn't make him a molester,of course not.It's the big picture that gives me creeps.The way they react to the "news"(prior abuse),they say no way instead of oh my God,let's see who had access to our child.

 

[claudicici]

....plus even if her Dad really did abuse her ,do you really think she would come out and state that?
I still think Beths' pictures in the bathroom are VERY creepy....

 

[21merc7]

what says it all to me is 1x1cm hymeneal orifice,how can that happen that one time???
that's the size of a grown woman starting to dilate about to give birth!
what's the regular size for a 6 year old? A few millimeters? I can't imagine it to be more...

From SuperDave's post, number 223:

Okay, for you regular people, that means that JonBenet's hymen was scratched. It has been established that her vagina was violated the night of her death. But the "1x1 cm hymeneal orifice" is the bell-ringer here. That means that the opening in JonBenet's six-year-old hymen was one centimeter by one centimeter. This is twice the size of a so-called normal hymeneal opening for a girl this age. In a September 1999 study for the Medical Journal Family Medicine titled "Genital Findings in Prepubertal Girls Evaluated for Sexual Abuse: A Different Perspective on Hymeneal Measurements," Dr. Perry Pugno said:

"Girls with no definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 2.3 mm and in general showed an increase of approximately 1 mm per year of age. Girls with definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 9.0 mm and no significant variance with age. Correcting for age differences, the transhymenal diameter was highly significant as a differentiating factor (F=1079, P<.001). When compared against the criterion standard, the transhymenal measurement is 99% specific and 79% sensitive as a screening tool."

These findings imply an "expected" hymeneal opening size of 6 mm for someone JonBenet's age; her actual opening size, 1 cm, placed her in the mid-range of sizes observed in this study among six-year olds known to have been abused. In fact, hymeneal sizes alone are not enough to say with any degree of certainty that JonBenet was the victim of long-term sexual abuse, but the autopsy report shows more than just hymeneal damage.

 

[madeleine]

....plus even if her Dad really did abuse her ,do you really think she would come out and state that?
I still think Beths' pictures in the bathroom are VERY creepy....

I thought that too at first but then I changed my mind and realized he did love her VERY VERY much,no doubt about that whatsoever (and NO I don't mean anything sexual about it,no way).And this is what makes me think he pretty much died as well with her.People who are hurt very badly can do crazy things.They don't care anymore,not about themselves,about loved ones,they change emotionally.
And there's another thing....TOO much love.Isn't harrassment and stalking also a form (sick one) of LOVE?That line is so thin sometimes.Haven't you heard so many dads say I did it outta too much love,I couldn't control my feelings anymore.
Dunno.....he lost one daughter,was close to losing his wife...maybe he IS that religious and thought.....in heaven we'll be together,they are all gonna be MINE again and nothing can tear us appart.Remember what he said,she's safe now in a better place?(waiting for him and PR?)

 

[madeleine]

http://www.pathguy.com/abuse.htm

Proposed Classification of Anogenital Findings in Children (1994)


Normal: Class I


Nonspecific findings (Class II).

Suspicious for abuse (Class 3)

Suggestive of Abuse / Penetration (Class 4)

Clear Evidence of Penetrating Injury (Class 5)


Jonbenet is here under nr .5

Note 3: The anterior hymenal rim may be very slim or absent as a normal variant; this was the case with JonBenet Ramsey and the pathologist recognized it as normal.

 

[madeleine]

Also.....

Class 4. Definite evidence of abuse or sexual contact


Finding of sperm or seminal fluid in or on a child's body

Witnesed episdoe of sexual molestation. This also appplies to cases where pronographic photographs or videotapes are acquired as evidence

Nonaccidental, blunt penetrating injury to the vaginal or anal orifice

Positive, confirmed cultures for Neisseria gonorrhoeae in a prepubertal child, or serologic confirmation of acquired syphilis

 

[madeleine]

Madeleine is taking anatomy lessons.

from the autopsy report:

A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present on the skin of the fourchette and in the vestibule.

--------------------

In female human anatomy, the frenulum labiorum pudendi (aka the fourchette or the posterior commissure of the labia minora) is a frenulum where the labia minora meet posteriorly.

(now I understand why they suspected DIGITAl penetration,it's more likely to hurt that spot that way,the finger is flexible and can reach it,harder with an object or with the...you know,look where it's located it will make sense)

The fourchette may be torn during delivery due to the sudden stretching of the vulval orifice, or during intercourse.The fourchette may also be torn in acts of violence wherein forced entry occurs such as rape. When the fourchette gets torn the bleeding which ensues sometimes requires surgical suturing for containment.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_labiorum_pudendi[/ame]

But just read the report.It wasn't just playing,she was hurt pretty bad even if she wasn't raped.



On the anterior aspect of the perineum, along the edges of closure of the labia majora, is a small amount of dried blood. A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present on the skin of the fourchette and in the vestibule. Inside the vestibule of the vagina and along the distal vaginal wall is reddish hyperemia. This hyperemia is circumferential and perhaps more noticeable on the right side and posteriorly. The hyperemia also appears to extend just inside the vaginal orifice. A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 x 1 cm hymeneal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen. On the right labia majora is a very faint area of violent discoloration measuring approximately one inch by three-eighths of an inch. Incision into the underlying subcutaneous tissue discloses no hemorrhage. A minimal amount of semiliquid thin watery red fluid is present in the vaginal vault. No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't recall where the coroner said that the absence of most of JB's hymen was normal. Got a link for that?

 

[CathyR]

From SuperDave's post, number 223:

Okay, for you regular people, that means that JonBenet's hymen was scratched. It has been established that her vagina was violated the night of her death. But the "1x1 cm hymeneal orifice" is the bell-ringer here. That means that the opening in JonBenet's six-year-old hymen was one centimeter by one centimeter. This is twice the size of a so-called normal hymeneal opening for a girl this age. In a September 1999 study for the Medical Journal Family Medicine titled "Genital Findings in Prepubertal Girls Evaluated for Sexual Abuse: A Different Perspective on Hymeneal Measurements," Dr. Perry Pugno said:

"Girls with no definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 2.3 mm and in general showed an increase of approximately 1 mm per year of age. Girls with definitive signs of genital trauma exhibited a mean transhymenal diameter of 9.0 mm and no significant variance with age. Correcting for age differences, the transhymenal diameter was highly significant as a differentiating factor (F=1079, P<.001). When compared against the criterion standard, the transhymenal measurement is 99% specific and 79% sensitive as a screening tool."

These findings imply an "expected" hymeneal opening size of 6 mm for someone JonBenet's age; her actual opening size, 1 cm, placed her in the mid-range of sizes observed in this study among six-year olds known to have been abused. In fact, hymeneal sizes alone are not enough to say with any degree of certainty that JonBenet was the victim of long-term sexual abuse, but the autopsy report shows more than just hymeneal damage.

All the damage caused by the trauma of the sexual assault is what I call the worst of it. Didn't some of that trauma also involve the Hyman?
But at a different location than the healing area?
The evidence pointing to prior abuse ( the things that were healing) is that the reason why that her hymen is small. It is described as erosion and the fact that certain blood cells present show it was healing. What is the time frame of healing when could this initial abuse have occurred. Or at least the time she was injured from abuse and the time she was killed.


It was Christmas she was out of school, for how long?

What is the time frame between the two incidents.



The news reaction by the R's of prior abuse is normal. Denial comes first, no one wants their child to have been abused. Just like in coping with death.


You have convinced me there is some compelling proof of prior abuse.

Now how do you tie it to the R's?

No one has but forth a theory where it is JR and BR ,or PR and BR ,that do the staging. Maybe they have but I haven't read it.

The other parent vouches for, sincerely, the mate as they believe them to have been in bed with them all night.

It also explains why the staging would be so over the top as a child and an adult came up with the staging.

I have been considering the viewpoint that parents would cover up for a child and it seems that one of them would be more highly motivated to do this than the other. I just don't see both parents not being mad at Burke enough to say no let him take his punishment or I'm not taking a chance of getting caught and looking guilty myself. I don't see them both willing to give up everything including going to jail for Burke. If he did it then both parents covered for him both parents could go to jail for the attempt of hiding it. They have no idea what trace evidence the police are going to be able to find that they can't wipe away, etc. What if DNA belonging to Burke did come back and in a place he can't explain away innocently. Fibers from his clothes, etc. One of them is going to be more doubtful that the plan will work than the other.

 

[DeeDee249]

Neither parent would have gone to jail in the People's Republic of Boulder, where nothing anybody does is ever their fault.
BR was under 10- by Colorado law, he couldn't even be NAMED in association with a crime, even the death of his sister. Had LE been aware that the parents were covering for their son, because of Colorado law, a person can't be arrested there for being an accessory to murder if no one was arrested for the murder.
Tampering with evidence would probably be the worst they'd have faced, but a judge may very well have barred them from being arrested for that if the killer they covered for was under 10.
Whether the Rs were aware of all of this is debatable, but I'd file this under "information gotten in a late-night call to a lawyer friend".

 

[UKGuy]

All the damage caused by the trauma of the sexual assault is what I call the worst of it. Didn't some of that trauma also involve the Hyman?
But at a different location than the healing area?
The evidence pointing to prior abuse ( the things that were healing) is that the reason why that her hymen is small. It is described as erosion and the fact that certain blood cells present show it was healing. What is the time frame of healing when could this initial abuse have occurred. Or at least the time she was injured from abuse and the time she was killed.


It was Christmas she was out of school, for how long?

What is the time frame between the two incidents.



The news reaction by the R's of prior abuse is normal. Denial comes first, no one wants their child to have been abused. Just like in coping with death.


You have convinced me there is some compelling proof of prior abuse.

Now how do you tie it to the R's?

No one has but forth a theory where it is JR and BR ,or PR and BR ,that do the staging. Maybe they have but I haven't read it.

The other parent vouches for, sincerely, the mate as they believe them to have been in bed with them all night.

It also explains why the staging would be so over the top as a child and an adult came up with the staging.

I have been considering the viewpoint that parents would cover up for a child and it seems that one of them would be more highly motivated to do this than the other. I just don't see both parents not being mad at Burke enough to say no let him take his punishment or I'm not taking a chance of getting caught and looking guilty myself. I don't see them both willing to give up everything including going to jail for Burke. If he did it then both parents covered for him both parents could go to jail for the attempt of hiding it. They have no idea what trace evidence the police are going to be able to find that they can't wipe away, etc. What if DNA belonging to Burke did come back and in a place he can't explain away innocently. Fibers from his clothes, etc. One of them is going to be more doubtful that the plan will work than the other.

CathyR,

No one has but forth a theory where it is JR and BR ,or PR and BR ,that do the staging. Maybe they have but I haven't read it.

Its part of my theory that there was not simply one staging but multiple stagings. Formerly the fly in the ointment was the barbie nightgown, people suggested it arrived accidently in the wine-cellar, that has been resolved since it is blood-stained and covered a barbie-doll, neither of these factors can be argued as accidental.

There is clear forensic evidence that both John and Patsy were involved in the staging, and to date little or none implicating Burke.

So one scenario is Patsy kills JonBenet, then stages her death, followed by John restaging certain features to minimize the focus falling on him?

Alternately Burke kills JonBenet , Patsy stages some scenario, with John again tailoring it to suit his agenda.

Or regardless of who killed JonBenet all three are involved to some extent in the staging, even if Burke is only moving non-crime-scene objects around and keeping silent on critical issues.

The scenario that shocks most people is that of John killing JonBenet staging some crime-scene then Patsy assisting with a revised crime-scene e.g. the wine-cellar by adding the ligature etc.

Lets put it another way: JonBenet was not simply killed in the corridor of the basement then dumped in the wine-cellar!

.