HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

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On the subject of teeth, I would think with a picture of the person that shows the front teeth, and the dental records, a conclusive id could be made. With the members of my family, all having perfect teeth with no braces, there is a definite difference that I, as a Mother can see.

LE seems to be keeping details close to the vest. Would they be able to get DNA from the robe the victim was wearing? And it seems odd that curtains were found also. If they were from the trailer, they would be small.

Someone, somewhere is sweating in their boots! These little details are telling to somebody, or maybe friends of the perp who will speak up.

My opinions only!
 
SStarr33 said:
Only if it was noted in the dental record or if they had occlusal models. Or maybe if an x-ray showed some unusual anatomy.

If you remember the name of the case I will look it over. I have some dental experience.
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Thanks! Nope, don't remember who the case involved, it was many years ago- literally.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
I find it hard to believe the remains are Heather's.

I can't wrap my head around why the DNA can't be matched with the various types of DNA found on the sheets, robe, etc. to DNA they have collected from a missing person. They could easily tell gender with the hip bones. Teeth are a very accurate way to do an ID if LE has dental records. Mitochondrial DNA from tooth dentin or pulp and/or bone marrow could be used. Hair is another avenue. So what is the hold up?

It is also disturbing to me how they could tell someone with any degree of certainty it wasn't HaLeigh Cummings' remains or any other person when they obviously have so little to go on there is no way to tell anything.
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Haleigh had Turner syndrome and was very tiny (about 3 feet tall) as a result. She could very easily be ruled out just based on height.
 
by Migmuu: LE hasn't been able to get DNA due to how degraded the bones were.
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Is that what LE said? Because of the degradation of the bones, a DNA profile cannot be obtained? Is there an article that states that and could you kindly provide a link to the article? (I'm not being snarky or confrontational, I am really curious to read about this). Thanks!
 
I don't think there would be an issue getting a DNA profile in this case. It could take awhile if they have other cases and limited resources to work with, but the extraction and analysis of the DNA itself wouldn't be very difficult.

Another possibility would be that they already have the profile but nothing to match it to.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Is that what LE said? Because of the degradation of the bones, a DNA profile cannot be obtained? Is there an article that states that and could you kindly provide a link to the article? (I'm not being snarky or confrontational, I am really curious to read about this). Thanks!
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Whoops. I know they were sent to Texas for more specialized testing months ago; I could've sworn it was because normal testing wasn't getting any DNA, but it seems I was wrong about that. I also wasn't aware that LE had completed the DNA analysis just recently

I've edited the previous post to remove the stuff about the DNA to prevent confusion.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
I find it hard to believe the remains are Heather's.

I can't wrap my head around why the DNA can't be matched with the various types of DNA found on the sheets, robe, etc. to DNA they have collected from a missing person. They could easily tell gender with the hip bones. Teeth are a very accurate way to do an ID if LE has dental records. Mitochondrial DNA from tooth dentin or pulp and/or bone marrow could be used. Hair is another avenue. So what is the hold up?

It is also disturbing to me how they could tell someone with any degree of certainty it wasn't HaLeigh Cummings' remains or any other person when they obviously have so little to go on there is no way to tell anything.
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BBM: It always comes to my mind, as others have also said, what if the bones were burned (using an accelerant)? That would definitely hold things up.

Abstract descriptionhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20832378

"DNA extracted from burnt bone fragments may be highly degraded, making an amplification of genetic markers difficult or even impossible."
 
Madeleine74 said:
Is that what LE said? Because of the degradation of the bones, a DNA profile cannot be obtained? Is there an article that states that and could you kindly provide a link to the article? (I'm not being snarky or confrontational, I am really curious to read about this). Thanks!
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I think I might have been the source of that. I speculated that might be the reason for not being able to get definitive results. But I certainly have no way of knowing.
 
This is one reason out of many that I try not to speculate. It often turns into a rumor that gets spread around. False information is damaging to a case, more so than a lack of information (IMO).

So to summarize:

- the picture of the sheet that was posted is not from a picture taken of the sheet with the remains.
- LE has not said anything about the ability or inability to get DNA from the bones. The only things they've said is these remains are being sent to TX to a lab there.
- There is no information about the bones being degradated as a result of anything, including acid, burning or anything else that's been imagined.
 
Madeleine74 said:
This is one reason out of many that I try not to speculate. It often turns into a rumor that gets spread around. False information is damaging to a case, more so than a lack of information (IMO).

So to summarize:

- the picture of the sheet that was posted is not from a picture taken of the sheet with the remains.
- LE has not said anything about the ability or inability to get DNA from the bones. The only things they've said is these remains are being sent to TX to a lab there.
- There is no information about the bones being degradated as a result of anything, including acid, burning or anything else that's been imagined.
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They have also said:
The remains belong to an adult. (not a child as originally thought)
That they were skeletal in nature. (which covers a wide array of conditions)
Listed in NamUs as near complete or complete skeleton.
The remains were sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for DNA analysis after separate autopsies were performed by the Volusia County Medical Examiner's Office and University of Florida in Gainesville, Fla.
Current tests have been inconclusive as to identifying the remains, which does not confirm or deny to whom the remains belong.
Per NamUs-Other items found with body: Wrapped in a pink bath robe, curtains, and a home-made mickey mouse print bed sheet. No mention of color or type of curtains, but curtains, plural, not singular.

And I enjoy thinking about different possibilities and reading other people's theories, with the facts that I have. As Nicholas DiFonzo wrote, "We are fundamentally social beings and we possess an irrepressible instinct to make sense of the world". To each, their own.
 
Reading through the posts, everything that is fact is stated as such with links to back it up. Everything else is theory and speculation and MOST everyone understands that.
 
melodyl said:
Reading through the posts, everything that is fact is stated as such with links to back it up. Everything else is theory and speculation and MOST everyone understands that.
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I agree and would add that even LE takes the known facts of any case and then speculates,throwing out different theories until they have one that fits the known facts.


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Ghostwheel said:
They have also said:
The remains belong to an adult. (not a child as originally thought)
That they were skeletal in nature. (which covers a wide array of conditions)
Listed in NamUs as near complete or complete skeleton.
The remains were sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for DNA analysis after separate autopsies were performed by the Volusia County Medical Examiner's Office and University of Florida in Gainesville, Fla.
Current tests have been inconclusive as to identifying the remains, which does not confirm or deny to whom the remains belong.
Per NamUs-Other items found with body: Wrapped in a pink bath robe, curtains, and a home-made mickey mouse print bed sheet. No mention of color or type of curtains, but curtains, plural, not singular.

And I enjoy thinking about different possibilities and reading other people's theories, with the facts that I have. As Nicholas DiFonzo wrote, "We are fundamentally social beings and we possess an irrepressible instinct to make sense of the world". To each, their own.
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I agree.

It can even help sometimes where 1 persons thoughts and ideas can help another persons thoughts and ideas and they can come up with a possible theory that would not have been developed had they not talked about it together.

It is good that most everyone here at WS is very careful when understanding the difference between established facts of a case and everything else. Overall, we do a great job here.
 
Could someone point me to where LE said it was an adult not a child? I must have missed it somewhere.
 
I'd like to see what a forensic artist could come up with as far as putting a face on these remains. There are some really accurate ones out there.


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