HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

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Foxfire said:
<BBM for Focus>



RE: <snipped>


The info that the mickey mouse sheet was Homemade(unique), negates this line of thinking, imo..

HE's case, due to the tremendous amount of awareness created by her family and the community, was/is very high profile. Imo, the likely missing char of the broken vase(homemade mickey mouse sheet) would have never been tied to this case if not for this awareness compounded by main stream news and social media...


http://www.waterburyobserver.org/node/402
Shattered - The Seven Year Search For Billy Smolinski Jr.

Picture the murder of Billy Smolinski as a crystal vase. ...It would take a master craftsman to cobble that broken vase back together, but what if the glass is just left on the floor?...

Picture the murder of Billy Smolinski as a crystal vase. Hold it in your hands. Spin it around. Now drop it on the kitchen floor and watch it shatter into a thousand pieces. Each shard of glass represents a clue into who killed Billy on August 24th, 2004. When patched together the vase reveals the gruesome truth of who murdered Billy, and why. The vase points to the spot Billy is buried in the Naugatuck Valley.

In the best of circumstances it would take a master craftsman to cobble that broken vase back together, but what if the glass is left on the floor for weeks, for months, for seven years? Glass gets kicked around into the living room, the dining room and gets jammed into the rubber soles of your shoes and is transported into the yard, into town, and across state borders. You send investigators into each room to collect glass, but shockingly they refuse to share what they gather with the other investigators. With ego and selfishness erupting all around you, what are the chances of ever getting that vase glued back together?

Welcome to the real-life investigation into the murder of Billy Smolinski Jr..
Click to expand...

Hi Foxfire,

I have always loved the crystal vase analogy ..... So, I wonder if LE tracked down the seamstress who made things for TM. Perhaps she could identify if the Mickey sheet was her handiwork which Tammy ordered from her. Possibly another 'piece of the vase'.
 
Gag order or not, IF the remains are identified as HE the family will be notified(IMO). And JMHO we will know trough them.
 
Reflecting on the TM "pregnancy", it's about time for a baby isn't it? And if there is no baby and never was a baby can the state use that "fake" pregnancy to once again show the character of TM? I would think her attorney wouldn't have tried to get her released knowing that she wasn't pregnant. That's just strange.
 
Something that makes me think the remains aren't Heather is that they still weren't able to tell if the remains were male or female and had to send them onward to TX, yet they have Dentals to compare to in Elvis' case... So again, to reiterate, since there's Dentals available for both, at the very least they'd have been able to tell if male or female if Dentals matched up with Heather - or even partially matched up. The conclusion wouldn't be deemed Inconclusive. Unless I'm missing something here?

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/12776

2mhbeoj.jpg


&

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/23314/0/

ev7vc3.jpg
 
Madeleine74 said:
Correct. Without an identification it's purgatory until such time as an announcement is made. Until that time I remain in the category of not knowing or able to guess who these remains are. The MM sheets don't inform me either way. I've always thought that Heather was disposed of in a body of water, something closer to the general MB area or put somewhere way out in the woods or some kind of marshy swamp. A road trip for many hours carrying a corpse all the way to FL (with a possibility of being pulled over by a cop or spotted by someone) seems like a lot of extra trouble and risk when there are thousands of places closer.
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Yet there are plenty of cases in which this happens (body disposed of in a location well away from the locality where it happened). People who commit these crimes don't necessarily think rationally like we do. :(
 
hoppy said:
Yet there are plenty of cases in which this happens (body disposed of in a location well away from the locality where it happened). People who commit these crimes don't necessarily think rationally like we do. :(
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They would have passed several forest areas along the way. Why pick one that is shallow, near industry and down the street from homesteads? Or several bodies of water as well? Just doesn't make sense. If these remains do belong to Heather, man what were the perps thinking?
 
Not necessarily rational but humans can be lazy. Taking a road trip with a corpse is a fairly significant undertaking. Then again, if one has the energy to plan and execute a murder, I guess the bounds of their energy is unknown.
 
2Hope4 said:
Which leads me to wonder if some type of chemical was used to decompose the body before it was discarded on the side of the road. BUT, if that's the case, then where in the world would the body have been stored? I wouldn't think on their property, but at this point, who knows! A metal barrel and certain chemicals could decompose, and maybe even have started breaking down the bones as well. I don't know for certain how long it would take, or what chemicals, etc., but I know in taxidermy there's things that remove all flesh, ligaments, etc, from animals before they are mounted. I know that I've seen many deer heads with just the skull and antlers posted on fb from people that have cleaned the deer heads themselves. So it must be an easily accessible way to do it.
Click to expand...

I recently purchased an old "hunting cabin" in the mountains. I found a couple of (deer?) skullsIMG_20131122_132446_291.jpgIMG_20131122_134945_061.jpg and a pelvis (no photo) that were "cleaned" by the elements. I used to have a friend who placed (animal) skulls on the roof of his shed to let the critters eat the flesh off, and allow the sun to bleach them so they no longer smelled bad. He said it was more efficient and did a better job that chemicals or boiling, without damaging the bone.
 
Jersey*Girl said:
Something that makes me think the remains aren't Heather is that they still weren't able to tell if the remains were male or female and had to send them onward to TX, yet they have Dentals to compare to in Elvis' case... So again, to reiterate, since there's Dentals available for both, at the very least they'd have been able to tell if male or female if Dentals matched up with Heather - or even partially matched up. The conclusion wouldn't be deemed Inconclusive. Unless I'm missing something here?

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/12776

2mhbeoj.jpg


&

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/23314/0/

ev7vc3.jpg
Click to expand...

You can't tell gender from teeth. Race, possibly. Gender, no.

Also, if somebody has perfect or near perfect teeth, it can be difficult to make a match based on dentals because there are so many people with good teeth. That would fit with the "inconclusive" as well -- they couldn't eliminate based on dentals but couldn't be sure.
 
carbuff said:
You can't tell gender from teeth. Race, possibly. Gender, no.

Also, if somebody has perfect or near perfect teeth, it can be difficult to make a match based on dentals because there are so many people with good teeth. That would fit with the "inconclusive" as well -- they couldn't eliminate based on dentals but couldn't be sure.
Click to expand...

Hey Carbuff! I remember a long time ago a UID was matched to a MP using only 4 teeth. I was under the impression a single tooth could be enough to determine a match of a UID to a Missing a person with dental data - bc of its grooves, pits, dips, slants, etc.

I'm even more curious about the hair that would have been on/near the skull, possibly in the bag considering the remains were wrapped up in all that stuff. If it was in there, how long was the hair? If it wasn't in there then why not when everything else was? It was a complete skeleton from what's been reported. Like I said, police are being very strategic with the info they're releasing to the public.

The reason I was saying they'd be able to tell gender was only in referring to if it was a match to Heather's Dentals. If the Dentals are a match and knowing Heather is a female, then they'd know the remains were female. I wasn't saying an ME could tell gender just by the teeth....only by the comparison of a known MP's Dentals on file where they know the MP's gender that the UID is being compared to. Hope I explained myself better. :)
 
Jersey*Girl said:
Hey Carbuff! I remember a long time ago a UID was matched to a MP using only 4 teeth. I was under the impression a single tooth could be enough to determine a match of a UID to a Missing a person with dental data - bc of its grooves, pits, dips, slants, etc.

I'm curious about the hair that would have been on/near the skull, possibly in the bag considering the remains were wrapped up in all that stuff. If it was in there, how long was the hair? If it wasn't in there then why not when everything else was? It was a complete skeleton from what's been reported. Like I said, police are being very strategic with the info they're releasing to the public.
Click to expand...

Only if it was noted in the dental record or if they had occlusal models. Or maybe if an x-ray showed some unusual anatomy.
 
Jersey*Girl said:
Hey Carbuff! I remember a long time ago a UID was matched to a MP using only 4 teeth. I was under the impression a single tooth could be enough to determine a match of a UID to a Missing a person with dental data - bc of its grooves, pits, dips, slants, etc.

I'm curious about the hair that would have been on/near the skull, possibly in the bag considering the remains were wrapped up in all that stuff. If it was in there, how long was the hair? If it wasn't in there then why not when everything else was? It was a complete skeleton from what's been reported. Like I said, police are being very strategic with the info they're releasing to the public.
Click to expand...

Only if it was noted in the dental record or if they had occlusal models. Or maybe if an x-ray showed some unusual anatomy.

If you remember the name of the case I will look it over. I have some dental experience.
 
Where did that picture of the Mickey sheets come from? If so, was that the one that was wrapped around the found body? :idea:
 
Jersey*Girl said:
Hey Carbuff! I remember a long time ago a UID was matched to a MP using only 4 teeth. I was under the impression a single tooth could be enough to determine a match of a UID to a Missing a person with dental data - bc of its grooves, pits, dips, slants, etc.

I'm even more curious about the hair that would have been on/near the skull, possibly in the bag considering the remains were wrapped up in all that stuff. If it was in there, how long was the hair? If it wasn't in there then why not when everything else was? It was a complete skeleton from what's been reported. Like I said, police are being very strategic with the info they're releasing to the public.

The reason I was saying they'd be able to tell gender was only in referring to if it was a match to Heather's Dentals. If the Dentals are a match and knowing Heather is a female, then they'd know the remains were female. I wasn't saying an ME could tell gender just by the teeth....only by the comparison of a known MP's Dentals on file where they know the MP's gender that the UID is being compared to. Hope I explained myself better. :)
Click to expand...

Okay, gotcha. That makes sense.

It is possible to make a match with very few teeth if there's something unique about them, or about the anatomy of the jaw, etc. I have a very odd molar -- you could even say deformed -- and it shows clearly in dental x-rays. So they might be able to ID me from just that one tooth because it's unique. But a person with near perfect teeth doesn't necessarily have anything unique going on in their mouth to use as an identifier. So you might match half a dozen different missing people with similarly near perfect teeth.
 
bestill said:
Where did this photo of the sheet come from? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I did a google image search for that photo and found two hits. One is from an Etsy page selling that vintage fabric and the other was a blog entry from 8/4. I don't think that's a photo of the actual fabric found in FL.
 
I find it hard to believe the remains are Heather's.

I can't wrap my head around why the DNA can't be matched with the various types of DNA found on the sheets, robe, etc. to DNA they have collected from a missing person. They could easily tell gender with the hip bones. Teeth are a very accurate way to do an ID if LE has dental records. Mitochondrial DNA from tooth dentin or pulp and/or bone marrow could be used. Hair is another avenue. So what is the hold up?

It is also disturbing to me how they could tell someone with any degree of certainty it wasn't HaLeigh Cummings' remains or any other person when they obviously have so little to go on there is no way to tell anything.
 
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