Heart Shaped Sticker And Duct Tape #3

[AZlawyer]

hm. Went away all afternoon so I'm trying to catch up. Just for my eye's sake (reading is hard right now) can someone explain why exactly we have been discussing stickers and their inherent shinyness-glitteriness for so many pages? TIA

Because we completely lost our minds and ran out of any useful sleuthing to do relating to the heart sticker located at the scene--other than combing through KC's photos looking for stickers from the same sticker set, which no one wants to do.

 

[natsound]

What causes you to believe that the heart sticker was treated as particularly more significant than anything else they wrote about?

snipped

I don't think the heart shaped sticker was given more significance than the other evidence in the synopses... but photos were taken of lots of other stuff that didn't make the synopses... like the vodka bottle, the broken picture frame, etc. They may be mentioned somewhere in a list, but they're not in any write-up that I've seen.

 

[fortytwo]

snipped

I don't think the heart shaped sticker was given more significance than the other evidence in the synopses... but photos were taken of lots of other stuff that didn't make the synopses... like the vodka bottle, the broken picture frame, etc. They may be mentioned somewhere in a list, but they're not in any write-up that I've seen.

Okay. That's true.

 

[natsound]

True. Let's blow up the picture of the sticker instead, and see if we can find any pixies trapped within.....

OH MY GOSH! Can you see the face in the evidence heart????

You all are CRAZY!!! :takeoff:

(I do see a pitchfork.)

 

[OneLostGrl]

true. Let's blow up the picture of the sticker instead, and see if we can find any pixies trapped within.....

oh my gosh! Can you see the face in the evidence heart????

:d :d :d

lmfao!

 

[christee]

haha...no. I think possibly we have wandered off track. The Sandylion sticker obviously matches the one found at the scene, whether or not one of the photos we have of the Sandylion set was computer generated.

But none of it means a thing unless someone finds a sticker from the same set in a photo involving KC or the Anthony home. But for some reason I can't seem to entice anyone to slog through hundreds of photos of Dopey (nod to HP for the nickname) at 3000% magnification to look for stickers.

Call me crazy but I've been looking off and on. So far I've worn out two sets of contacts and my eyes are on fire!:furious:

 

[dbromley]

So what is the importance of that particular heart?! It in no way matches the one found at the crime scene...or at least the puffy one they showed. Which one was stuck on the duct tape or is this something they are not going to release? GRRRR!

ETA: The one on the cell phone doesn't match the puffy sticker either, imo. It isn't raised.

Not only that, but the police initially claimed the forensic lab found residue in the shape of a heart on about December 17th in one of their official statements released, and in the forensic report dated December 22nd it said "there were no stickers OR STICKER FRAGMENTS on the three pieces of duct tape" (it was assumed this included sticker adhesive as it is a part or fragment of a sticker), they said nothing else was found, and there was absolutely no mention of any heart-shaped residue. People are now theorizing that when the police placed the heart sticker on the tape themselves & photographed it some residue got on it but the FBI lab figured that out. So it appears the heart sticker was never on the duct tape & the police just staged it that way.

 

[Psmith]

Great sleuthing.

No heart sticker? Srsly?

Sorry, want to see source. LE would have had presser if not so.

Also, fingerprints per FBI. Proved not there for LA, GA, CA. No mention of tests for KC. Therefore not excluded...also no tests done at time per job lot for that *cough* person KC.

Sorry, call it "in denial" but FBI report....then LE lookies in house take pix of stickies....does not pan out.

SEE COMMENT BELOW.



_____________

Now I see that M. Poirot was simply being amusing....and I saw the wrong edited comment.

Forgive me.

new moo = mew.

nopes.

 

[ecs5298]

Not only that, but the police initially claimed the forensic lab found residue in the shape of a heart on about December 17th in one of their official statements released, and in the forensic report dated December 22nd it said "there were no stickers OR STICKER FRAGMENTS on the three pieces of duct tape" (it was assumed this included sticker adhesive as it is a part or fragment of a sticker), they said nothing else was found, and there was absolutely no mention of any heart-shaped residue. People are now theorizing that when the police placed the heart sticker on the tape themselves & photographed it some residue got on it but the FBI lab figured that out. So it appears the heart sticker was never on the duct tape & the police just staged it that way.

Can you provide a link to the FBI report that says there was no heart shaped adhesive residue because the only one that I recall seeing was the report that said there were no stickers or sticker fragments which does not include the adhesive.

These reports are written very to be very specific. They leave no room for assuming. If they did, defense attorneys would tear them apart.

 

[Psmith]

Can you provide a link to the FBI report that says there was no heart shaped adhesive residue because the only one that I recall seeing was the report that said there were no stickers or sticker fragments which does not include the adhesive.

These reports are written very to be very specific. They leave no room for assuming. If they did, defense attorneys would tear them apart.

I think most posters agree that FBI knows what it finds. M Poirot comment was taken incorrectly.


Apologies, ecs.


FortyTwo has to answer. : )

 

[dbromley]

I think most posters agree that FBI knows what it finds. M Poirot comment was taken incorrectly.


Apologies, ecs.


FortyTwo has to answer. : )

I agree - the FBI is good, although they can only do as much as technology & the evidence allows. Also, they are being limited and requested to only do certain tests by LE, and don't appear to independently be deciding what else NEEDS to be tested. They have been waiting until they're asked, so some tests are not being done.

To respond to the person who asked about where in the FBI Report the tape findings were, its page 3798. Under "Results of Examination" issued December 22, 2008, all it says is "The Q62 through Q64 pieces of tape were examined for the presence of any stickers. No stickers or sticker fragments were observed on these items." This came out after LE's claim on Dec 17th that there was sticker residue, and the examination notes no other findings, including residue in the shape of a heart.

Also, any adhesive that was originally part of a sticker I would think if found would not only be mentioned as a finding which it isn't, but would also likely qualify as part of, or a fragment of, the sticker.

 

[Rumpole]

I agree - the FBI is good, although they can only do as much as technology & the evidence allows. Also, they are being limited and requested to only do certain tests by LE, and don't appear to independently be deciding what else NEEDS to be tested. They have been waiting until they're asked, so some tests are not being done.

To respond to the person who asked about where in the FBI Report the tape findings were, its page 3798. Under "Results of Examination" issued December 22, 2008, all it says is "The Q62 through Q64 pieces of tape were examined for the presence of any stickers. No stickers or sticker fragments were observed on these items." This came out after LE's claim on Dec 17th that there was sticker residue, and the examination notes no other findings, including residue in the shape of a heart.

Also, any adhesive that was originally part of a sticker I would think if found would not only be mentioned as a finding which it isn't, but would also likely qualify as part of, or a fragment of, the sticker.

I think you are quite wrong.

The residue was identified and described by ME in detail as a residue and not a sticker at all. (Just heart shaped, and the size of a sticker- you really have to read the details). That tape and its residue is still with the FBI and subject to tests that we have not seen the description of.
From your earlier post, it is ludicrous to suggest that LE put a sticker on tape collected as potentially critical evidence, to make up a photo. A montage photo of two potential pieces of evidence is not credible. Certainly not standard modern CSI technique to cut the piece of duct tape from the vital skull duct tape sample to take to the remains site and photograph as a short piece with a heart sticker? Besides they would then need a time machine to get the piece of tape back to ME on 17th so that he he could discover the residue mark left after the photo shoot on the 18th.
The two items were many miles apart when photos were being taken at remains site. And LE simply would not be so daft as to do that.

If you care to read this thread you will see arguements that tend to agree the sticker photographed was on cardboard matting as described, and not on duct tape as you have some how mis-assumed.
It is NOT thought to be the sticker that left the residue on skull tape as it is still plainly attached via its adhesive layer to original cardboard.

 

[ecs5298]

I agree - the FBI is good, although they can only do as much as technology & the evidence allows. Also, they are being limited and requested to only do certain tests by LE, and don't appear to independently be deciding what else NEEDS to be tested. They have been waiting until they're asked, so some tests are not being done.

To respond to the person who asked about where in the FBI Report the tape findings were, its page 3798. Under "Results of Examination" issued December 22, 2008, all it says is "The Q62 through Q64 pieces of tape were examined for the presence of any stickers. No stickers or sticker fragments were observed on these items." This came out after LE's claim on Dec 17th that there was sticker residue, and the examination notes no other findings, including residue in the shape of a heart.

Also, any adhesive that was originally part of a sticker I would think if found would not only be mentioned as a finding which it isn't, but would also likely qualify as part of, or a fragment of, the sticker.

I understand you line of thinking but maybe need to clarify my point a little.
If you look at it from a lawyer end of it you are assuming that the FBI said there was no heart shaped adhesive residue. It only states "sticker or sticker fragments". If there was no adhesive residue, they would have said "no stickers or sticker fragments or adhesive residue". They are very specific in the way they report it. If they didn't say it, you cannot assume it. Apparently the adhesive residue was visible to the naked eye. They might not have even asked the FBI to look for it. Or if they did test it and compare it to the sticker found, it may be in a separate report that we haven't seen yet.

JMHO.

 

[fortytwo]

Not only that, but the police initially claimed the forensic lab found residue in the shape of a heart on about December 17th in one of their official statements released, and in the forensic report dated December 22nd it said "there were no stickers OR STICKER FRAGMENTS on the three pieces of duct tape" (it was assumed this included sticker adhesive as it is a part or fragment of a sticker), they said nothing else was found, and there was absolutely no mention of any heart-shaped residue. People are now theorizing that when the police placed the heart sticker on the tape themselves & photographed it some residue got on it but the FBI lab figured that out. So it appears the heart sticker was never on the duct tape & the police just staged it that way.

(bold above by me)

People seem to theorize some of the strangest things.

The tape from the remains was received by the FBI on Dec. 13, and the results about the "residue" probably reported by them on or before the 15th, 'cause that's when the fingerprint report was dated, and they're the ones who first noticed the "residue".

The "heart shaped sticker" wasn't even found until the 18th. The search warrant was issued and executed on the 20th and included a great deal more of specific requests than just scrapbooking supplies.

There's not a lot of extra time there for LE and the FBI to engage in a conspiracy to fabricate evidence, not a lot of need in a case that's already pretty much slam-dunk, and there's that picky little detail of finding the residue first.

Sure, it's possible, but I wouldn't bet the milk money on it.

Why "assume" that residue from a sticker must be a "sticker fragment" anyway? Is this something that people would do normally? Would you do that? If you saw a place on a 'fridge door where a kid's sticker had been peeled off and only adhesive residue was left would you think to yourself, "Oh, look. A sticker fragment."?

I think that in this instance the word "assume" is best translated as "reaching really, really hard'.

 

[RubyB]

Are we even sure that the tape from the skull is actually #'d Q62, 63, or 64? I'm aware of other pieces of tape found at the scene, and made the assumption that those #'s applied to them.
I ask because I really don't know, and I was embarrassed by an assumption I leapt to about another item included in this latest doc drop.

 

[fortytwo]

Are we even sure that the tape from the skull is actually #'d Q62, 63, or 64? I'm aware of other pieces of tape found at the scene, and made the assumption that those #'s applied to them.
I ask because I really don't know, and I was embarrassed by an assumption I leapt to about another item included in this latest doc drop.

(bold above by me)
We are sure that three pieces of tape found with the remains were sent to the FBI by the M.E.'s office and labeled Q62-64 by the FBI.

We are sure that these three pieces were tested for fingerprints, composition, and evidence of sticker fragments, and held for fiber and trace evidence testing.

We are sure that one other piece of tape found in close proximity to the remains was labeled Tag #H-60493, Item #16 by OCSO and sent as OCSO label Q-100 to the FBI. We don't know anything more about that piece (and I'm darned curious).

The four pieces of tape mentioned above were all noted to have the Henkel logo.

We are sure that three other pieces of tape were collected quite some distance from the remains and labeled Tag #J-600013, Items #4 & 5. There is no indication so far that these pieces were sent to the FBI, and it seems likely that they were just trash debris unrelated to the case.

That's all I'm aware of as far as duct tape collected at the site is concerned.

Note that we have not been privy to any of the communication between the FBI and the M.E.'s office. We are aware of any details only by inference. There may well have been other items with the remains collected by the M.E.'s office, including but not limited to additional pieces of tape, that we have not seen any documentation on.

This gets us to the answer to your question... finally.

No. We're not sure.

All we know for sure is that those three pieces, FBI labels Q62-64, were found with the remains. There could be others as well which we don't know about.

We are assuming (but not sure) that one of these three pieces was the one that the "sticker residue" was found on (i.e. the piece on the skull) only because we know that it was the FBI Latent Fingerprint Unit that detected the residue first, and we know that these three pieces were analyzed by them prior to the Dec. 20 warrant.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I understand you line of thinking but maybe need to clarify my point a little.
If you look at it from a lawyer end of it you are assuming that the FBI said there was no heart shaped adhesive residue. It only states "sticker or sticker fragments". If there was no adhesive residue, they would have said "no stickers or sticker fragments or adhesive residue". They are very specific in the way they report it. If they didn't say it, you cannot assume it. Apparently the adhesive residue was visible to the naked eye. They might not have even asked the FBI to look for it. Or if they did test it and compare it to the sticker found, it may be in a separate report that we haven't seen yet.

JMHO.

I know what you are saying, but this can't literally be true. It would be very strange to see "no stickers or sticker fragments or adhesive residue" on the FBI report, unless it was preceded by OCSO specifically asking them to check for any evidence of a sticker being placed on the tape. They didn't ask that question of the FBI. FBI would have no reason to fully exclude the presence of a sticker any more than they would for anything else. If that kind of exclusionary reporting were expected, we shouldn't be surprised to read weird meaningless stuff like "no mandrill fur, DNA or fingerprints were found on the duct tape".

 

[fortytwo]

I know what you are saying, but this can't literally be true. It would be very strange to see "no stickers or sticker fragments or adhesive residue" on the FBI report, unless it was preceded by OCSO specifically asking them to check for any evidence of a sticker being placed on the tape. They didn't ask that question of the FBI. FBI would have no reason to fully exclude the presence of a sticker any more than they would for anything else. If that kind of exclusionary reporting were expected, we shouldn't be surprised to read weird meaningless stuff like "no mandrill fur, DNA or fingerprints were found on the duct tape".

(bold above by me)

OCSO didn't have any reason to ask anything about stickers, evidently, because they didn't know about them until the FBI passed the word along. Or at least that's all we can deduce from the search warrant request.

There is communication between the M.E.'s office and the FBI, the OCSO and the FBI, and the FBI and the FBI that we can be confident exists and we haven't seen.

In short we really don't know who asked who what, except for the pitiful dribbles of hints we've gotten out of the doc dumps so far.

 

[RubyB]

No. We're not sure.

(Snipped majority of the extremely informative & comprehensive reply, in the interest of saving space.)

Thanks 42, for taking the time and trouble to get me (and others I expect) up to speed on that. Much appreciated!
Sometimes while reading here I start channeling that "STOP THE MADNESS" woman. I suspect you can relate.

 

[fortytwo]

(Snipped majority of the extremely informative & comprehensive reply, in the interest of saving space.)

Thanks 42, for taking the time and trouble to get me (and others I expect) up to speed on that. Much appreciated!
Sometimes while reading here I start channeling that "STOP THE MADNESS" woman. I suspect you can relate.

No problem.