Heart Shaped Sticker And Duct Tape #3

[Valhall]

Sorry placed in wrong thread. pffffft

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I understand and respect those who think pictures should not be released, and I would have reservations about looking at the skull pics, but for "Scientific" purposes I would like to see pictures of the skull as found with the tape in place.

H.P., Have you checked out the white dog thread? New pareidolia to examine. No kitty spotted yet, just a doggie. :waitasec:

 

[wenwe4]

Somewhere I remember seeing the dome heart stickers on one of the pix w/KC and her girlfriends. The dome heart stickers were stuck on one of the girlfriends cell phone, might have been one of the photos from the car. Any WS'r remember or have a link? Have we seen pics of KC's cell phone(s) from LE? Young teen girls often decorate their phones with stick ons to distinguish them - wonder if kc's was also this way.

 

[Rumpole]

Well, I'm far behind all you guys. I haven't been reading this thread, so I'm sure somebody already did that before me.

Concerning the statements about the importance of the one paper sticker backing in the box, I'm trying to see the significance of this, but I'm having a hard time.

I guess the real question is when the report states the FBI lab called back to the investigators at the crime scene and requested they look for a heart sticker and then the report states they found one and we have a picture of a dome sticker (aka "puffy sticker"), it leads one to believe that's the sticker they found as referred to in the report. Snip .

I think initial thought was a sticker found at the remains site would be the very one that "fell off" the duct tape, (I certainly thought that), but....
The sticker found is clearly well attached to cardboard matting. I do not think it fell off duct tape and re-attached so well. It is a different sticker. It is not impossible that a rigid sticker was placed on duct tape, but a flexible sticker more likely.

It is mathematically and statistically much more significant to go looking for a specific item (sticker backing), and actually find the very thing, than it is to just find all sorts of stuff at GACA house, and then work out that one item is linked to remains site.
For anybody still awake, it's the difference, statistically, between "a priori" and "a posteriori" hypotheses.
Finding a separate sticker backing, of the same size as residue, in KC's room, in a box of memorabilia, that box labelled "Caylee stuff", is together almost too good to be true!!!

IF, (and it's still an if), there is a forensic link with adhesives etc between remains tape sticker adhesive residue, and sticker backing from KC's room then, on that evidence alone, KC is burnt toast IMO

 

[Valhall]

I think initial thought was a sticker found at the remains site would be the very one that "fell off" the duct tape, (I certainly thought that), but....
The sticker found is clearly well attached to cardboard matting. I do not think it fell off duct tape and re-attached so well. It is a different sticker. It is not impossible that a rigid sticker was placed on duct tape, but a flexible sticker more likely.

I agree, I don't think the heart on the matte board is the heart that was on the duct tape, but I think it may be the matching heart from the same package. I'm basing this off what the report states.

"While processing the duct tape at the FBI lab in Quantico, the latent print unit noticed residue in the perfect shape of a heart. The heart was not hand drawn and residue appeared to be consistent with the adhesive side of a heart shaped sticker. It appears that the sticker was put on the duct tape intentionally. In the search area, investigators located a small heart shaped sticker similar in size to the residue found on the duct tape. The sheet from which this sticker came from was not recovered on scene."

Okay, if we're talking about a paper-type heart sticker they are searching for, then they have not released all evidence discovered at the crime scene. And I would be doubtful that they could get away with not releasing the "small heart shaped sticker similar in size". I would think Baez would be kicking a fit over that. So that's what is leading me to believe that the heart we have a picture of from the crime scene represents the heart sticker that was on the duct tape. Since there are two (actually I think there are 4 in that package) of similar size (3/4" tall and 3/4" wide), I'm suspecting one of those dome stickers.

Again, I also think that a paper type sticker that was more flexible and had stuck better would have left more residue than what was left on the duct tape. As pointed out earlier and intimated above the residue was not visible until the latent print people were working on the tape (i.e. dusting for fingerprints). A well-stuck sticker that dissolved away would have left more of a visible residue versus one that was more rigid, less stuck and may have "lifted" off over time.

It's just my opinion, of course. But I'm working off what we have from the scene at this point, and I see no evidence found of a paper sticker.

 

[Valhall]

Somewhere I remember seeing the dome heart stickers on one of the pix w/KC and her girlfriends. The dome heart stickers were stuck on one of the girlfriends cell phone, might have been one of the photos from the car. Any WS'r remember or have a link? Have we seen pics of KC's cell phone(s) from LE? Young teen girls often decorate their phones with stick ons to distinguish them - wonder if kc's was also this way.

Here it is...

 

[Rumpole]

I agree, I don't think the heart on the matte board is the heart that was on the duct tape, but I think it may be the matching heart from the same package. I'm basing this off what the report states.



Okay, if we're talking about a paper-type heart sticker they are searching for, then they have not released all evidence discovered at the crime scene. And I would be doubtful that they could get away with not releasing the "small heart shaped sticker similar in size". I would think Baez would be kicking a fit over that. So that's what is leading me to believe that the heart we have a picture of from the crime scene represents the heart sticker that was on the duct tape. Since there are two (actually I think there are 4 in that package) of similar size (3/4" tall and 3/4" wide), I'm suspecting one of those dome stickers.

Again, I also think that a paper type sticker that was more flexible and had stuck better would have left more residue than what was left on the duct tape. As pointed out earlier and intimated above the residue was not visible until the latent print people were working on the tape (i.e. dusting for fingerprints). A well-stuck sticker that dissolved away would have left more of a visible residue versus one that was more rigid, less stuck and may have "lifted" off over time.

It's just my opinion, of course. But I'm working off what we have from the scene at this point, and I see no evidence found of a paper sticker.

What was left is what was left? Who is to say what would be left after 6 months exposed to weather? The front of the duct tape was almost completely worn away.

The description you site in search warrant speaks of "similar size" nothing more. The various posts of all manner of stickers earlier in this thread, and the LE search pics all sugest 3/4" is a standard sticker size for both "paper" type and "rigid" type, so not surprising that there is a 3/4" rigid sticker found and a 3/4" paper sticker sought.
I could accept that either type of sticker could have been on the duct tape, but see no reason or evidence why KC would put a puffy sticker on the duct tape, then another from the same packet on a piece of cardboard? Then throw that away with the body? Also remind you that the sticker on the board was found very late in the remains site search, near the boundary fence and may not have anything to do with the remains. In which case the issue of puffy sticker should not come up, and the carefully saved single sticker backing would likely be regarded as being of very high importance. In my view it is.

 

[AZlawyer]

Valhall, just to clear up any confusion, no one is saying that the puffy sticker is not the one referred to in the report. We are just saying it is likely not the one that was stuck to the duct tape. So...our theory is that 2 stickers are involved:

1. STICKER NUMBER ONE: puffy, pink-to-red diagonal stripes, semi-rigid, found at the scene but not very close to the body and stuck to a piece of cardboard matting (therefore not likely to have been previously stuck to duct tape), identified by exact make & model and submitted to LE. Possible significance as part of a scrapbooking/photo item made by KC using cardboard matting and left at the scene, if we could only find any evidence in any photos that she owned the stickers from the remainder of this package.....

2. STICKER NUMBER TWO: flat, holographic rainbow heart sticker carefully cut out of the sticker page with curly edges and removed from backing. Sticker presumably used by KC somewhere, but backer saved and brought back home to be placed in Caylee memorabilia box. Apparently this sticker backer was the very last thing ever placed in that box. Why save the backer of a sticker? Only if the sticker itself was used somewhere very special BUT ALSO somewhere that was not on display and would likely not be seen again. IMHO this sticker is the best candidate for being the one placed on the duct tape. And it is not the type of sticker that would likely survive a hurricane so has probably disintegrated.

The recent resurrection of this thread (thanks, Valhall!) has triggered some new thoughts for me. Does the fact that KC cut out the holographic rainbow sticker together with its backing suggest that she was taking it somewhere to be used later--rather than using it right there at the house? Does this help us figure out time & place of death? Premeditation? When do we think she came back to the house and stashed the backer in the box? Or would she have used the sticker right there in the house but paused to cut out and save the backer before leaving with the body?

 

[Valhall]

Valhall, just to clear up any confusion, no one is saying that the puffy sticker is not the one referred to in the report. We are just saying it is likely not the one that was stuck to the duct tape. So...our theory is that 2 stickers are involved:

Just to be clear, I am also talking about 2 stickers being involved (both "puffy stickers" and from the same package).

2. STICKER NUMBER TWO: flat, holographic rainbow heart sticker carefully cut out of the sticker page with curly edges and removed from backing. Sticker presumably used by KC somewhere, but backer saved and brought back home to be placed in Caylee memorabilia box. Apparently this sticker backer was the very last thing ever placed in that box. Why save the backer of a sticker? Only if the sticker itself was used somewhere very special BUT ALSO somewhere that was not on display and would likely not be seen again. IMHO this sticker is the best candidate for being the one placed on the duct tape. And it is not the type of sticker that would likely survive a hurricane so has probably disintegrated.

But the problem with the holographic rainbow heart sticker backing in the box is that it is NOT SIMILAR IN SIZE to the heart found at the crime scene. It's a 1 inch sticker. The report clearly states that a heart sticker "of similar size" was found at the crime scene. The only heart we have a picture of from the crime scene is the "puffy sticker" (aka dome sticker) stuck to the matt board. And it's a 3/4" sticker. So why would we put significance in a sticker that isn't even the same size?

P.S. IMHO, I don't believe anything was "brought back home". I believe the hour or so KC was at the house (the shovel incident) involved the preparation of the body and I believe she used things from that house. She may have taken things OUT of the house (i.e. the picture, scrapbook page or whatever the one dome sticker was stuck to, as well as the package the dome stickers came from) but I don't think she bought something for her ritual. And as I stated before, I put little merit in where anything is in that room because the entire room has been rearranged some time since Caylee went missing.

 

[Rumpole]

Just to be clear, I am also talking about 2 stickers being involved (both "puffy stickers" and from the same package).



But the problem with the holographic rainbow heart sticker backing in the box is that it is NOT SIMILAR IN SIZE to the heart found at the crime scene. It's a 1 inch sticker. The report clearly states that a heart sticker "of similar size" was found at the crime scene. The only heart we have a picture of from the crime scene is the "puffy sticker" (aka dome sticker) stuck to the matt board. And it's a 3/4" sticker. So why would we put significance in a sticker that isn't even the same size?

P.S. IMHO, I don't believe anything was "brought back home". I believe the hour or so KC was at the house (the shovel incident) involved the preparation of the body and I believe she used things from that house. She may have taken things OUT of the house (i.e. the picture, scrapbook page or whatever the one dome sticker was stuck to, as well as the package the dome stickers came from) but I don't think she bought something for her ritual. And as I stated before, I put little merit in where anything is in that room because the entire room has been rearranged some time since Caylee went missing.

'

I think if you look, the area that the sticker was removed from is 3/4"

 

[Valhall]

'

I think if you look, the area that the sticker was removed from is 3/4"

I actually had to go back to the evidence photos of the flat sheets to get it, but now I see it is. Thanks! I had previously estimated it at 1", but it does appear to be right at 3/4".

 

[Rumpole]

I actually had to go back to the evidence photos of the flat sheets to get it, but now I see it is. Thanks! I had previously estimated it at 1", but it does appear to be right at 3/4".

OK I had a look. I think all the stickers being discussed are nominally 3/4"

I am still open to finding either type of sticker was on the duct tape, but that singled out backing certainly makes me sit up and pay attention!

 

[christee]

Here's my "most likely to get whipped" question of the day: is it possible LE released Heart/Mat pic but did not release pic of Heart sticker that fell from duct tape?

:couch:

 

[Rumpole]

Here's my "most likely to get whipped" question of the day: is it possible LE released Heart/Mat pic but did not release pic of Heart sticker that fell from duct tape?

:couch:

:doh:ther_beatingA_Dead:whip2::whip:


I guess it is POSSIBLE, but..... would be tantamount to breaking rules about being upfront with discovery.

 

[christee]

:doh:ther_beatingA_Dead:whip2::whip:


I guess it is POSSIBLE, but..... would be tantamount to breaking rules about being upfront with discovery.

Love the Smilies HP-I deserve all of them

Is there a time limit on being "upfront"?

Would it be breaking the rules of Discovery if they're just "delaying" release of Heart/Tape?

 

[Rumpole]

Love the Smilies HP-I deserve all of them

Is there a time limit on being "upfront"?

Would it be breaking the rules of Discovery if they're just "delaying" release of Heart/Tape?

My vast knowledge of Florida law what I have got from reading WS says that LE can delay evidence that is part of ongoing investigation but here LE is releasing all maner of similar stuff, so would I think have to be classified as deception (lying). LE specified a residue on tape and a sticker at remains site in warrant application, so a tricky extra sticker not shown would amount to lying to Judge? Not a good move?

 

[christee]

My vast knowledge of Florida law what I have got from reading WS says that LE can delay evidence that is part of ongoing investigation but here LE is releasing all maner of similar stuff, so would I think have to be classified as deception (lying). LE specified a residue on tape and a sticker at remains site in warrant application, so a tricky extra sticker not shown would amount to lying to Judge? Not a good move?

By now, I'm sure it's obvious I love to ask "what if" questions so, here's another:

What if Judge knows abt Heart/Tape sticker and has ok'd the delay?

 

[Rumpole]

By now, I'm sure it's obvious I love to ask "what if" questions so, here's another:

What if Judge knows abt Heart/Tape sticker and has ok'd the delay?

Ah! the old conspiracy between LE, prosecution, and Judge trick

I think defence immediately wins a "You Win Appeal Card" Keep this card to automatically win any appeal based on partiality of Judge

 

[christee]

Ah! the old conspiracy between LE, prosecution, and Judge trick

I think defence immediately wins a "You Win Appeal Card" Keep this card to automatically win any appeal based on partiality of Judge

Okay,Okay-good one!

I had to try no matter the odds.

There has been mention of some docs not completely released. I could spend the next 2 hrs trying to find a link-Have you heard anything like this?

 

[Rumpole]

Okay,Okay-good one!

I had to try no matter the odds.

There has been mention of some docs not completely released. I could spend the next 2 hrs trying to find a link-Have you heard anything like this?

There are a few things I hope just not released yet, but mostly I think it is wishful thinking on my part. Staying with sticker and remains site for a moment: that was a very comprehensive and detailed list right down to piece of used gum and small pieces of rubbish. I think in that case not including something vital would be lying. There is hope that complete chunks of evidence have not been released, but not items within a full disclosure.
Having said that, then there is plenty of potential for more details on the items we know about. We have seen very few actual results at all. I still think Duct Tape and/or heart sticker will win "Evidence of The Year" award. Not only link KC absolutely, but show bizarre and unusual component sufficient to earn DP! I hope so anyway.
There are other tests on many items. I can't list them all, but some spring to mind KC's shoes from Pontiac, KC's clothes, the "horse and fence"? the used chewing gum, gator aid bottle etc etc etc.

PS We all wait with antici.....
pation for what the actual roll of the stainless slteel kitchen knife is in all of this?