GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #6

[Napili]

I was going to post about girls wearing 501 Levis when I was young, Pua, but refrained as that is bordering on ancient history now. Those were designer jeans for budding counter culture types then.
I doubt Charli wore 32/30s anyway given her height, especially.

This is the definitive word on jeans:

First, SC is just the guy who would wear high water pants.

Second, girls may wear boy's jeans, but boys may not wear girls jeans.

Third, you who used to be so hip with your 501's dark blue had to wash in bleach, hot water and shrink in the drier and then stretch the legs back down and still walk like you had a stick up you know where for weeks until the wonderful things finally settled down to blissful comfort and coolness--oh yes! I know! I'd given my daughter my last old pair that I could no longer fit into & told her for years: just buy boy's jeans! No way. But now, at twenty six, she comes skipping in with a pair of -- that's right! 501's. Stiff, midnight blue, shrink-to-fits bought online. Overjoyed. So, I instruct her on the care and nurture of her new best friend and now I am, once again, the coolest.

Now, no more about jeans

 

[Kapua]

This is the definitive word on jeans:

First, SC is just the guy who would wear high water pants.

Second, girls may wear boy's jeans, but boys may not wear girls jeans.

Third, you who used to be so hip with your 501's dark blue had to wash in bleach, hot water and shrink in the drier and then stretch the legs back down and still walk like you had a stick up you know where for weeks until the wonderful things finally settled down to blissful comfort and coolness--oh yes! I know! I'd given my daughter my last old pair that I could no longer fit into & told her for years: just buy boy's jeans! No way. But now, at twenty six, she comes skipping in with a pair of -- that's right! 501's. Stiff, midnight blue, shrink-to-fits bought online. Overjoyed. So, I instruct her on the care and nurture of her new best friend and now I am, once again, the coolest.

Now, no more about jeans

I have never even tried on a pair of men's jeans. I am not built for men's jeans. Give me my Gloria's.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

So, in Steven's interviews, he talks about how he attempted to contact Charli after finding out that she was pregnant but she never got back to him. He then says that when Adam Gaines contacted him and told him he went to the pregnancy appointment w/ Charli, Steven again attempted to contact Charli and this time she did get back to him and they met and talked and he encouraged her to rethink the decision to keep the baby. I believe he says they also had a long text conversation on Saturday night.

BUT...when SC volunteers to let law enforcement see his cell phone, he specifically explains that he deletes his texts so his smart phone will work fast, and for that reason they won't find the text convo between him and Charli on his phone.....they'll only find the text where he thanks her for the lift out to Keanae on Sunday.

Do we know with certainty that she reestablished communication with Steven after Adam Gaines took her to the appointment? Or is this only coming from Steven? Has Adam, Fiona, Kimberlyn, or anyone confirmed that Charli was talking to Steven again? Or was this maybe a lie on Steven's part to downplay any negativity that existed between the two of them and make it look like things were civil and honky-dory....

Because I could more understand how it could provoke a deep level of rage inside Steven if she was completely icing him out and continuing to ignore his texts/calls right up until the time of the murder.

 

[puakenikeni]

We have not heard any evidence on their call records yet that I know, only on tower pings right around the murder.

We have heard from Adam. We heard from Fiona that she called Steven the day Charli announced.
We heard from Steven's interview that the name Joshua was in the running because it was Charli's uncle's name, but I'm a little fuzzy about that, and we heard from him he knew that a gender reveal party was planned, both of which things were true and required knowledge from Charli or someone in the loop. I believe he said he knew about the plans for Adam and Lydia or the Scotts to help Charli raise Joshua, but I may be wrong about that.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

Thank you. From the things you've mentioned, I'm not seeing any clear corroboration from anyone else that Charli & Steven were speaking again.

The things Steven knew about the name Joshua and the plans would have easily come from mutual friends, because we know that Adam would call Steven and keep him in the loop, and Steven mentions in the interview that he and Charli had all the same friends, and he frequently refers to "our friends."

The only thing that makes sense to me that would fuel this deep level of rage indicated by the crime is for Steven to be reaching out to Charli over and over, and her being totally unresponsive. The theory that Steven was simply clearing the way for a "happily ever after" with Cass does not ring true for me (she had cheated on him, and he stated straight up that he doesn't believe in marriage).....Nor does him being enraged that Charli had disobeyed or misled him by not going through with an abortion. That's just not enough, in my mind, to provoke such brutality. For me, the only thing that accounts for the level of rage in this crime is for her to have been totally and utterly ignoring him after he tried reaching out to her again and again. It would have been deeply humiliating for him to hear from other people about what's going on with the baby, and for him to be completely left out of it all despite his efforts to talk. In the interview he never says "the baby," he always says "my baby." Over and over again: "my baby." I believe he was so angered that she would become impregnated by him but then totally cut him off, and this is where his rage came from.

He specifically says that Charli would not contact him after he'd reach out to her. But then, after his convo w/ Adam Gaines, she did reach out to him, according to Steven. And yet, none of this contact shows up on his phone, conveniently enough, because he says he deletes his texts so that his smartphone will run faster. Hmmm.
I think he lied that Charli had reestablished contact w/ him. He told this lie in order to downplay the tension that existed between them, thereby removing a strong motive. He said they had met and were texting and he was "coming around to the idea" and they were talking baby names and blah blah blah.......in the same way he rattled on about the guy with dreadlocks in the Toyota Corolla with the rasta medallion hanging from the mirror and how they'd laughed about him hitchhiking at night....it's all just a bunch of BS. He's a liar. He is inventing scenarios for his story/alibi.
And if one of Charli's family members contradicted the fact that they were talking again, his excuse would be that Charli had probably kept their renewed contact a secret because they "didn't like him."

This is a tentative theory, but if anyone can provide quotes from one of Charli's friends/family that demonstrate that they were aware that Charli had started talking to Steven again, then I will discard this theory.

 

[heartgoesout]

The thing is though, pregnant women are murdered all the time because the father doesn't want the child. This is not a unique crime. It's age old. In fact I believe it to be one of the number causes of women murdered.
There really doesn't have to be a psycho analysis.

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

The thing is though, pregnant women are murdered all the time because the father doesn't want the child. This is not a unique crime. It's age old. In fact I believe it to be one of the number causes of women murdered.
There really doesn't have to be a psycho analysis.

You can't paint all murders of pregnant women with one broad brushstroke.

We have a young man who has no history of violence who repeatedly stabs, fractures the bones of, and then dismembers the mother of his child. There is incredible rage behind this crime - not just someone who is trying to get rid of a nuisance. I'd like to know what provoked that rage. It's not sufficient IMO to just say "He didn't want to be a dad."

 

[RunDaSurf]

Who said he doesn't have history of violence? He did. Why you want to believe anything that liar ever said?
What provoked the rage?! The beauty of Maui. Too much aloha extended to him by too many good people. Too much healthy organic food. Too many pretty girls attracted to him. Life too good for him. Took theirs and wasted his. Time for him to rot.

 

[heartgoesout]

Mox, It is just that simple. He did not want a baby messing up what he had going.
Happens every day to women.
You, like the rest of us seek the answer of why because you are a good person. The brain struggles to understand the why. So we think there has to be an answer and a reason. I do the same thing, question, question, question.
I truly think it boils down to nothing more than that. At that moment that child was more of a threat than the chance of getting caught.
Same as a robbery, same as a punch, same as cheating on a test. Every day people doing awful things. Just watch the news for a week and write down every awful crime. Murders, like Charlie and Joshua's, unfortunately and sadly happens every single day.

 

[PeterTosh]

Who said he doesn't have history of violence? He did. Why you want to believe anything that liar ever said?
What provoked the rage?! The beauty of Maui. Too much aloha extended to him by too many good people. Too much healthy organic food. Too many pretty girls attracted to him. Life too good for him. Took theirs and wasted his. Time for him to rot.

Second this

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

Wasn't Laci Peterson dismembered because Scott Peterson didn't want to have a baby? It's hard to imagine that someone could do something so horrid, especially when he could just look the other way and move on with his life. I don't think many people can fully understand the motive because most people aren't that sick in the head. My mind goes over two questions constantly when I think about him... How could someone do something so cold, cruel, disgusting, and heartless? How the heck could he have thought he would get away with this?

 

[Kapua]

Wasn't Laci Peterson dismembered because Scott Peterson didn't want to have a baby? It's hard to imagine that someone could do something so horrid, especially when he could just look the other way and move on with his life. I don't think many people can fully understand the motive because most people aren't that sick in the head. My mind goes over two questions constantly when I think about him... How could someone do something so cold, cruel, disgusting, and heartless? How the heck could he have thought he would get away with this?

The Laci Peterson murder has a lot of parallels. You are mostly right. Scott Peterson, another killer with NO history of violence, murdered his beautiful wife Laci because he didn't want a baby and he'd become infatuated with a blonde, Amber. Laci wasn't dismembered. Scott killed her in their home, put her in the brand-new boat he'd purchased just for the occasion, drove for 2 hours, took the boat out into SF Bay, and dumped Laci into the bay with homemade concrete anchors on her head, hands, and feet. Months later, when her corpse had decomposed, her baby floated ashore, followed by her torso.

It is definitely difficult to fathom how cruel and heartless these murderer are, and how they didn't show any signs that they were capable of doing such horrible things until they actually did.

 

[PeterTosh]

You really have to wonder about the vile seething underbelly within these characters(SC &SP). None of us knew them before their actions so it would be hard to describe their initial presentation of themselves. Who they were before they went rogue. You just never know until its too late. There was that Tom Cruise Movie where he was a cop that would arrest people before they commited their crime.

 

[Napili]

The Laci Peterson murder has a lot of parallels. You are mostly right. Scott Peterson, another killer with NO history of violence, murdered his beautiful wife Laci because he didn't want a baby and he'd become infatuated with a blonde, Amber. Laci wasn't dismembered. Scott killed her in their home, put her in the brand-new boat he'd purchased just for the occasion, drove for 2 hours, took the boat out into SF Bay, and dumped Laci into the bay with homemade concrete anchors on her head, hands, and feet. Months later, when her corpse had decomposed, her baby floated ashore, followed by her torso.

It is definitely difficult to fathom how cruel and heartless these murderer are, and how they didn't show any signs that they were capable of doing such horrible things until they actually did.

Yes. And it's also good to keep in mind how these best laid plans go awry. As if a hidden hand has moved to expose the truth.

 

[Kapua]

Thank you. From the things you've mentioned, I'm not seeing any clear corroboration from anyone else that Charli & Steven were speaking again.

The things Steven knew about the name Joshua and the plans would have easily come from mutual friends, because we know that Adam would call Steven and keep him in the loop, and Steven mentions in the interview that he and Charli had all the same friends, and he frequently refers to "our friends."

The only thing that makes sense to me that would fuel this deep level of rage indicated by the crime is for Steven to be reaching out to Charli over and over, and her being totally unresponsive. The theory that Steven was simply clearing the way for a "happily ever after" with Cass does not ring true for me (she had cheated on him, and he stated straight up that he doesn't believe in marriage).....Nor does him being enraged that Charli had disobeyed or misled him by not going through with an abortion. That's just not enough, in my mind, to provoke such brutality. For me, the only thing that accounts for the level of rage in this crime is for her to have been totally and utterly ignoring him after he tried reaching out to her again and again. It would have been deeply humiliating for him to hear from other people about what's going on with the baby, and for him to be completely left out of it all despite his efforts to talk. In the interview he never says "the baby," he always says "my baby." Over and over again: "my baby." I believe he was so angered that she would become impregnated by him but then totally cut him off, and this is where his rage came from.

He specifically says that Charli would not contact him after he'd reach out to her. But then, after his convo w/ Adam Gaines, she did reach out to him, according to Steven. And yet, none of this contact shows up on his phone, conveniently enough, because he says he deletes his texts so that his smartphone will run faster. Hmmm.
I think he lied that Charli had reestablished contact w/ him. He told this lie in order to downplay the tension that existed between them, thereby removing a strong motive. He said they had met and were texting and he was "coming around to the idea" and they were talking baby names and blah blah blah.......in the same way he rattled on about the guy with dreadlocks in the Toyota Corolla with the rasta medallion hanging from the mirror and how they'd laughed about him hitchhiking at night....it's all just a bunch of BS. He's a liar. He is inventing scenarios for his story/alibi.
And if one of Charli's family members contradicted the fact that they were talking again, his excuse would be that Charli had probably kept their renewed contact a secret because they "didn't like him."

This is a tentative theory, but if anyone can provide quotes from one of Charli's friends/family that demonstrate that they were aware that Charli had started talking to Steven again, then I will discard this theory.

It was Taylor that had cheated on him; I haven't heard that Cass did; where did you hear this? (Ref. trial day 3 part 4 at 37:00)

The cell phone records show who contacted whom and when for both call activity and texts, although they don't show the actual texts. So if the AT&T and Verizon reps ever testify we will know for sure about the contact between SC and Charli.

Charli may not have shared with her family that she was in contact with SC again. Kimberlyn testified that she did not like SC. Fiona testified that SC had told her that he thought she's "taken care of it". I can understand how Charli might have kept quiet about any contact with SC when talking with them. That leaves Phaedra, her closest confidante. Check her testimony. Adam or Lydia Gaines might have known as well.

I assume that you mean that SC lied about reestablishing contact until, say, 2 days or so before the murders. That's a good theory, IMHO. SC lied about everything, why not this? If he thought it was to his advantage to lie about being in contact with Charli, he would.

 

[PeterTosh]

Yes. And it's also good to keep in mind how these best laid plans go awry. As if a hidden hand has moved to expose the truth.

I also think the ones who get caught are not all that bright

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

It was Taylor that had cheated on him; I haven't heard that Cass did; where did you hear this? (Ref. trial day 3 part 4 at 37:00)

You're right, Kapua, it was Taylor Farner that he said cheated on him. My bad.
I remember him describing the one who cheated as "my current girlfriend," but I just reviewed that testimony (Day 4, Part 5) and he actually said "my current girlfriend at the time."

I just find it difficult to account for the brutality of this murder, for me it's not enough to simply say "He didn't want to be a dad." If people think that's the only reason, then ask yourself this: If Taylor Farner or Cass had become pregnant, would he have done the same thing to one of them? I really doubt that he would have.

 

[Loio]

If Taylor Farner or Cass had become pregnant, would he have done the same thing to one of them? I really doubt that he would have.

He would have made damned sure they got an abortion. Taylor and Cass were both younger than Charli and living at home. Charli was independent and living on her own. She didn't need SC which is probably why she hid the pregnancy from him until she was well into her 2nd trimester.

 

[Mamamerced]

He would have made damned sure they got an abortion. Taylor and Cass were both younger than Charli and living at home. Charli was independent and living on her own. She didn't need SC which is probably why she hid the pregnancy from him until she was well into her 2nd trimester.

SC seems to have had a problem with independent women.(? IMO)) His mom seemed to do her own thing from the bit I've gleaned and SC's emotional needs were likely not considered, certainly not met. Who knows what else was thrown in to that fermenting resentment/hatred? And then Charli crossed his path.

 

[Loio]

I'm not putting anything on his mom. She left him in her mom's care. Whether he liked it or not is irrelevant. Like RDS said, too much love and kindness made him snap? I guess we'll never really know.