How Did the Side Door Get Opened?/Door Locks/Use of Cinder Block**REVISITED**

[MADJGNLAW]

Now that I found the thread to the back door I moved it here.

We know for a fact that there are two back doors to the trailer. That "BOTH WILL SHUT AUTOMATICALLY" unless they are propped open.

One door was propped open with a block/brick. That was the second door, the screen door, the outside door.

So, the first door also shuts automatically if it's not propped open with something and Misty and Ron Claim that the door was bolt locked that night. And it would take a strong person to open it, the locks stick.

If Misty woke and saw the kitchen light from her bedroom I could understand that...

What I don't understand is how she saw the second door open? In her 911 call she ask Ron if he locked the door. Why would she need to ask if she was home right there doing laundry? She would of noticed the back door open and would of remember since it is so hard to lock from what I understood.
Look at the doors, you can't see the screen door unless the back door is also propped open. She did say the back door was wide open, so were both doors wide open? TN said there may of been laundry on the floor, but she was not there that night so we can only assume that there was and if so that would mean that who ever was in the house knew about the back doors swinging open.

 

[debs]

Here's a photo of the back door (scroll to the very last pic on the page) and it appears there is a flat cinder brick laying there on the walk/ramp.

http://politigal.googlepages.com/haleighcummings

YES!! Thank you! I thought I was going nuts!!!! I knew I'd seen a flat cinderblock paver and not one of the bigger building block ones!!! (My sanity was in question anyway, but not being able to find this picture again was making it even worse.)

 

[lakelandladi]

Wouldn't LE have the cinderblock...I am sure they would have taken that as evidence the very first day.

 

[debs]

Wouldn't LE have the cinderblock...I am sure they would have taken that as evidence the very first day.

I'm sure I saw this same picture in one of the very first videos of the house. Since they came back for the door, maybe the block was removed later in the day.........who knows. I don't know whether that's THE block. I just knew I'd seen this picture. And can't we just rejoice that my sanity is back on track for the slow meltdown versus the accelerated one I was on because I couldn't find it? Huh? :crazy:

 

[lakelandladi]

I'm sure I saw this same picture in one of the very first videos of the house. Since they came back for the door, maybe the block was removed later in the day.........who knows. I don't know whether that's THE block. I just knew I'd seen this picture. And can't we just rejoice that my sanity is back on track for the slow meltdown versus the accelerated one I was on because I couldn't find it? Huh? :crazy:

Well this case has certainly challenged all of our sanity without a doubt, LOL. I have followed a lot of cases but this one is one of the strangest...and without LE giving out anything it really makes it hard to figure anything out.

 

[BondJamesBond]

regarding the brick seen in the photo I posted, it appears it is a brick as seen in this link -- one of the last ones pictured on the page:

http://www.abcblock.com/products/blocks/specs.aspx

FWIW, looks to me just like a broken piece of a full cinderblock. Not uncommon that some get broken in handling. Also, not uncommon to have to break some intentionally for penetrations through a block wall (e.g. plumbing, etc.). These get left behind in any construction project.

Complete speculation, but, appears to be the top of a 5-gallon bucket in the foreground of the picture. It appears to be sitting on the ground on the nearer side of the ramp. Not uncommon to have these left around after constuction, esp. from drywall work. They turn into trash cans...ashtrays, etc. Perhaps this bucket was used for smoke butts if smoking outside?

Plenty of cases cracked by the perp leaving behind a pre-crime smoke butt...:waitasec:

That 5-gallon bucket - if that's what it is - would also be something you might find that broken piece of cinderblock in the bottom of without ever really seeing/knowing it was there...yet passing it everyday...IYKWIM.

 

[fortytwo]

Observations from reviewing some of the mat'l listed above:

1) Dunno the date of the pic taken of the back door, but, there is a broken piece of a cinder block in view and in the location one would use to prop open the door. Not a full cinder block, but, a small piece.

2) The article describing Misty's return to the trailer details the finding of a pile of laundry on the floor. That the pile was found upon the return to the trailer w/ LE is a good indication IMHO that it was present on the night in question.

3) NG's producer injects that Misty was referring to the interior door as being wide open. Russian roulette as to how accurate that account is.

regarding the brick seen in the photo I posted, it appears it is a brick as seen in this link -- one of the last ones pictured on the page:

http://www.abcblock.com/products/blocks/specs.aspx

Folks, I'd love to be able to agree with you, but I just can't. (Thanks BTW for the pic of the ramp, txsleuth)

I'll grant that the object on the ramp might be a piece of block, but there's no way that I'm certain.

I am certain that it doesn't resemble the 4" concrete brick which txsleuth so diligently found.

In any case it doesn't resemble anything that would serve to conveniently prop open that screen door on that ramp without somehow being wedged into the hinge side of the door. Think ramp as the operative term.

Since I first saw the ramp I have been thinking that, yes, a concrete block (I was thinking standard 8" CMU, like everyone else, I guess) could prop it, and not the inner door, or conversely prop both doors. But that ramp is steep. Whatever might be used to prop the screen open would have to be tall enough, heavy enough, and stable enough to stay put against it and not slide or fall over. If I was living there, and needed some way to keep that screen open (this is assuming that there's no working catch on the closer) I'd have a piece of string or wire on the ramp handrail that I could loop around the door handle. I wouldn't leave tripping hazards on the ramp. If I was planning ahead for some illegal entry I'd bring a piece of string. That's easier to tote than masonry.

Okay, here's a list of things that I sure would appreciate some help establishing that we actually do know.

Do we know for certain which door(s) was propped open?

Do we know for certain what exactly was used? There's a corollary question here. I'm not entirely sure when the terms 'block' and 'cinder block' first entered into play.

Do we know for certain that laundry was in any way involved with a door being open? Corollary here. What made us think that it might be? When did we first start thinking that?

If we could limit ourselves to statements by actual witnesses (i.e. Misty, LE, Ron) how far can we get on these questions with the info that's been made public to date?

ETA: Got to thinking. While I don't believe that whatever is on that ramp would work very dependably for keeping the screen 'wide' open it would certainly serve to keep it from latching closed. Not that this is meaningful. Just a thought.

 

[fortytwo]

FWIW, looks to me just like a broken piece of a full cinderblock. Not uncommon that some get broken in handling. Also, not uncommon to have to break some intentionally for penetrations through a block wall (e.g. plumbing, etc.). These get left behind in any construction project.

Complete speculation, but, appears to be the top of a 5-gallon bucket in the foreground of the picture. It appears to be sitting on the ground on the nearer side of the ramp. Not uncommon to have these left around after constuction, esp. from drywall work. They turn into trash cans...ashtrays, etc. Perhaps this bucket was used for smoke butts if smoking outside?

Plenty of cases cracked by the perp leaving behind a pre-crime smoke butt...:waitasec:

That 5-gallon bucket - if that's what it is - would also be something you might find that broken piece of cinderblock in the bottom of without ever really seeing/knowing it was there...yet passing it everyday...IYKWIM.

I agree. That is a 5 gallon bucket. Undoubtedly.

Good catch.

And I agree that it has all the signs of being a butt bucket. This might suggest that the ramp door gets more use than previously suggested.

 

[Donjeta]

Do we know for certain that laundry was in any way involved with a door being open? Corollary here. What made us think that it might be? When did we first start thinking that?

The first I heard of it was on Nancy Grace show when they were touring the house. It was nothing definite, just a possibility thrown out there. LE has said nothing as far as I know, neither RC and MC. TN was there on NG and didn't say much but didn't deny the possibility.

 

[BondJamesBond]

We know for a fact that there are two back doors to the trailer. That "BOTH WILL SHUT AUTOMATICALLY" unless they are propped open.

One door was propped open with a block/brick. That was the second door, the screen door, the outside door.

So, the first door also shuts automatically if it's not propped open with something and Misty and Ron Claim that the door was bolt locked that night. And it would take a strong person to open it, the locks stick.

What I don't understand is how she saw the second door open? In her 911 call she ask Ron if he locked the door. Why would she need to ask if she was home right there doing laundry? She would of noticed the back door open and would of remember since it is so hard to lock from what I understood.
Look at the doors, you can't see the screen door unless the back door is also propped open. She did say the back door was wide open, so were both doors wide open? TN said there may of been laundry on the floor, but she was not there that night so we can only assume that there was and if so that would mean that who ever was in the house knew about the back doors swinging open.

*snipped*
You typed what I've been thinkin', MadJGNLaw. :thumb:

It is confused further by NG's producer stating that the interior door was the one that was wide-open. We don't really know if that is fact or speculation on her part. :banghead:

I've kinda resigned myself to allowing that Misty could've run around outside the trailer looking/calling for Haleigh and noticed then that the exterior door was propped open. After re-re-reading her 911 remarks I can interpret it this way OR that the interior & exterior door were both open. I've also kinda resigned that the "wide open" remark could just be referring to the exterior door for emphasis. When I watched the NG video again it appeared to me that the interior door closed on its own - but did not fully close. IOW...if Misty investigated from the inside, she would prolly see that the interior door was ajar...and open it to find the exterior door propped open.

I can allow an innocent-Misty bein' incredulous at the whole scene and asking Ron if he'd locked that door. (I'm a notorious double-checker of my doors when I leave my home...to the point of stopping the car as I pull outta the driveway to go back and check :bang Of course, an involved-Misty might also comment the same way...so...IMHO I can't discern anything from her comment.

So far - while I hoped (still do) to gleen something from the available information - the best I think we can really state to-date w/ some certainty is...

1) There were no signs of forced entry (huge, huge, huge clue)
2) The exterior door was propped open w/ a shard of cinderblock
3) There was a pile of laundry near the rear entrance (exact location in relation to the door & floor unknown)
4) The pile of laundry contained the pink Hannah Montana-Jamma shirt Misty originally stated that Haleigh was wearing when she put her to bed that night

Puts? Takes?

Thanks to everyone for tolerating my fumbling around.

 

[texasmommy39]

*snipped*
You typed what I've been thinkin', MadJGNLaw. :thumb:

It is confused further by NG's producer stating that the interior door was the one that was wide-open. We don't really know if that is fact or speculation on her part. :banghead:

I've kinda resigned myself to allowing that Misty could've run around outside the trailer looking/calling for Haleigh and noticed then that the exterior door was propped open. After re-re-reading her 911 remarks I can interpret it this way OR that the interior & exterior door were both open. I've also kinda resigned that the "wide open" remark could just be referring to the exterior door for emphasis. When I watched the NG video again it appeared to me that the interior door closed on its own - but did not fully close. IOW...if Misty investigated from the inside, she would prolly see that the interior door was ajar...and open it to find the exterior door propped open.

I can allow an innocent-Misty bein' incredulous at the whole scene and asking Ron if he'd locked that door. (I'm a notorious double-checker of my doors when I leave my home...to the point of stopping the car as I pull outta the driveway to go back and check :bang Of course, an involved-Misty might also comment the same way...so...IMHO I can't discern anything from her comment.

So far - while I hoped (still do) to gleen something from the available information - the best I think we can really state to-date w/ some certainty is...

1) There were no signs of forced entry (huge, huge, huge clue)
2) The exterior door was propped open w/ a shard of cinderblock
3) There was a pile of laundry near the rear entrance (exact location in relation to the door & floor unknown)
4) The pile of laundry contained the pink Hannah Montana-Jamma shirt Misty originally stated that Haleigh was wearing when she put her to bed that night

Puts? Takes?

Thanks to everyone for tolerating my fumbling around.

Good morning
In your opinion how important is the shirt and the foot print on scent trail? TIA

 

[fortytwo]

Here's a thought concerning the hypothesis of a set-up to look like an abduction.

Why not make it look like a forced entry? Why try to create the appearance of an abduction and leave out that one thing? Why insist that the door was locked? It would have been just as simple to say "Oh, yeah. I went out for a smoke and maybe I forgot to lock it on my way back in."?

I know it is going to be said that it could have all happened in a hurry, and wasn't very well thought out, and I concede the possibility, but there is almost too much of a lack of forethought for me to be very comfortable with this scenario.

I can think of means of unauthorized entry which would leave no more evidence than we know to have been found, and I'm a little bit more comfortable with any of them than I am with the idea that someone tried to fake an abduction and botched it so thoroughly.

 

[balaney]

IMO

Misty was alone with the kids. She put Haleigh in the tub and JR on the couch to watch tv. She laid down and forgot about both kids. She woke up at 10 - Haleigh was dead. She wrapped her in a blanket, changed her mind and then wrapped her in a sheet and put her in a garbage bag. She opened the back door to take the "garbage" out. If anyone saw her she would say she was taking the garbage out. She left the bag against the dumpster. She either ran over to get the van and brought it back (the backdoor is still propped wide open) - then put Haleigh/bag in it and disposed of her body in a nearby lake/pond/water area, returned, cleaned the bathroom up a little, clean up the blanket(s), get rid of tub water, etc. The back door is still "bricked" and she leaves it as such to look like an intrusion.

If someone assisted her and they brought the van over to get the "bag" and dump it, her phone records, texting, calling, etc. would point to who helped.

 

[Indigo]

Here's a thought concerning the hypothesis of a set-up to look like an abduction.

Why not make it look like a forced entry? Why try to create the appearance of an abduction and leave out that one thing? Why insist that the door was locked? It would have been just as simple to say "Oh, yeah. I went out for a smoke and maybe I forgot to lock it on my way back in."?

I know it is going to be said that it could have all happened in a hurry, and wasn't very well thought out, and I concede the possibility, but there is almost too much of a lack of forethought for me to be very comfortable with this scenario.

I can think of means of unauthorized entry which would leave no more evidence than we know to have been found, and I'm a little bit more comfortable with any of them than I am with the idea that someone tried to fake an abduction and botched it so thoroughly.

(respectfully bolded)

Hello, fortytwo. Tentative staging makes a lot of sense if you factor in the stager's fear of what investigators may later be able to prove. Creating a forced entry could potentially link the stager to the instrument that was used create it. It's also possible that the stager feared making any noise that might attract witnesses. JMO.

 

[Donjeta]

I can think of means of unauthorized entry which would leave no more evidence than we know to have been found, and I'm a little bit more comfortable with any of them than I am with the idea that someone tried to fake an abduction and botched it so thoroughly.

Unless they're really smart criminals who figured that everybody would think that if they faked an abduction they'd fake a forced entry. Now they have the ready defence that nobody is that stupid, they'd have done it much better if they'd planned it all.

 

[fortytwo]

(respectfully bolded)

Hello, fortytwo. Tentative staging makes a lot of sense if you factor in the stager's fear of what investigators may later be able to prove. Creating a forced entry could potentially link the stager to the instrument that was used create it. It's also possible that the stager feared making any noise that might attract witnesses. JMO.

Yeah. I know. That's why I said it's just a thought.

It's odd that they're adamant about the door having been locked. It would be easy enough to have slipped in that it might not have been.

I'm just trying different scenes to fit, and trying to make the point, to myself as much as anybody else, that the data we have isn't a perfect fit from either perspective.

That's why I've been canvassing for comments on what things we 'really really' do know. Some of the things being discussed as 'known' I'm beginning to suspect are conviction built on supposition derived from rumor.

By way of example an earlier post in this thread included in their list of 'known' facts that it was the screen door that was propped open.

I happen to think that less than likely, unless it was also open, because I'm not too attached to the idea that Misty found out about the open door while she was running around outside.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Good morning
In your opinion how important is the shirt and the foot print on scent trail? TIA

Hey, TM. I just dunno...yet.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Folks, I'd love to be able to agree with you, but I just can't. (Thanks BTW for the pic of the ramp, txsleuth)


Do we know for certain which door(s) was propped open?

Do we know for certain what exactly was used? There's a corollary question here. I'm not entirely sure when the terms 'block' and 'cinder block' first entered into play.

Do we know for certain that laundry was in any way involved with a door being open? Corollary here. What made us think that it might be? When did we first start thinking that?

If we could limit ourselves to statements by actual witnesses (i.e. Misty, LE, Ron) how far can we get on these questions with the info that's been made public to date?

ETA: Got to thinking. While I don't believe that whatever is on that ramp would work very dependably for keeping the screen 'wide' open it would certainly serve to keep it from latching closed. Not that this is meaningful. Just a thought.

*snipped*

Like your approach, 42.

FWIW...IMHO, the best indication as to the brick/block being used to open the exterior door is Misty's description in the 911 call...earlier in the thread. Misty struggled to describe the surface that the brick/block was sitting on (e.g. floor, walkway=>ramp). Since we can observe that the interior door swings inboard and the exterior door swings outboard...I think we can conclude that only the exterior door could be held open (regardless of it being 1degree or 90degrees) by a brick/block resting on the "ramp".

That isn't to say that the interior door wasn't open...just dunno enough to say.

IMHO, if you zoom in on the item in the photo it appears to me to be a shard of a block. The divider between the two openings in the block can be seen pointing downward in what would be the interior/center of the block, with the flat surface resting upward. IOW...if it were a full-block you would be viewing into the top of the block and through the two openings. I'm not describing it very well, but, am pretty certain of what I'm seeing...MOO.

 

[Bruno]

After reading this whole thread, I feel that I can shed light on the subject (no, it's not my x-ray vision theory of MC--seeing the storm door open through the closed solid door).

I revisited wunderground.com to once again see the weather conditions of Feb.9th. Forget temperature. Think wind. The best I could ascertain is that the wind spend was about 10 mph with a slight gust. That to me means--wait for it--that door would of swung, no matter how slightly, back and forth against the block. So maybe LE took that door to examine it more at the point of contact (block/bottom of door) to see how much, if any, damage, scratches, etc.

One other quick point on blanket coming off window. Would that not let even more moonlight enter the bedroom thereby the ability to see if anything or anyone is missing?

Thoughts?

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras"

 

[fortytwo]

*snipped*

Like your approach, 42.

FWIW...IMHO, the best indication as to the brick/block being used to open the exterior door is Misty's description in the 911 call...earlier in the thread. Misty struggled to describe the surface that the brick/block was sitting on (e.g. floor, walkway=>ramp). Since we can observe that the interior door swings inboard and the exterior door swings outboard...I think we can conclude that only the exterior door could be held open (regardless of it being 1degree or 90degrees) by a brick/block resting on the "ramp".

That isn't to say that the interior door wasn't open...just dunno enough to say.

IMHO, if you zoom in on the item in the photo it appears to me to be a shard of a block. The divider between the two openings in the block can be seen pointing downward in what would be the interior/center of the block, with the flat surface resting upward. IOW...if it were a full-block you would be viewing into the top of the block and through the two openings. I'm not describing it very well, but, am pretty certain of what I'm seeing...MOO.

Regarding the object on the ramp, I can see what you're talking about, but I can't commit to agreement. When I zoom it up to 400% I think I can see a kitty in the corner. (Sorry. :crazy: If you have to ask just disregard.)

If it is a fragment of 8" CMU then it's a darned sorry choice for a door prop on that ramp. Oh, well.

I'm having trouble with the idea of Misty running around the outside of the home and discovering the screen open, so if we accept your ideas about interpreting her 911 call (and I can't find fault with them) then the inside door must also have been ajar for her to have noticed the screen.

I keep getting "data insufficient". Maybe we can be preparing for that one more hint, but I'm afraid we'll be spinning our wheels on this until we do.

The NG video showed us that the inside door is inclined to swing shut, but it's pretty unenthusiastic about the idea. No door closer or spring hinge. It wouldn't require much for it to be propped open along with the screen, so for right now that's the direction I'm leaning toward.

How about if we talk some more about why the screen door was propped. I know it's been suggested that it was to simplify egress when encumbered with a child, but I'm not quite buying that. The screen door is RHR swing, which is (as you pointed out) swing to the outside, and with the latch side on the right when exiting. Haleigh is small, and doesn't weigh very much. An abductor shouldn't have any trouble holding her while reaching to push the screen door latch and closing it gently on the way by. I'd be more concerned about the noise made by trying to prop the thing open on that ramp with a piece of CMU scrap.

Also, your eagle eyed catch of that mud bucket (good work there, BTW) has raised even more questions in my mind. I thought it had been indicated that the side door was rarely used. That might suggest otherwise.