I can't find a hole in this theory...

[DeeDee249]

Yes, that's why I was under the impression that Patsy drew it.

I am wondering whether Patsy may have even drawn it on her after she was dead as a kind of "goodbye- my heart is in your hands" kind of farewell. Something to take to her grave with her.
That is the only reason I can think of for Patsy to deny having seen the heart. When asked about that later she said that she "might have read about it" in the papers. Both parents denied ever reading the autopsy report, which noted the heart. Can't blame them for that, though.

 

[BOESP]

[snip]
I do recall reading LONG ago that Patsy and JB used to draw hearts in each other's hands and it meant "my heart is in your hands" - does any one else recall this? I can't have dreamed it up, I had to have read it somewhere long ago.

I remember that too. It is in one of her depos or interviews. It was the same interview she said "It's a pretty good little heart" or words to that effect.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

If the metal sound did come from the "safe" in the wine cellar, could they of thought to hide her in it, but she was too big so they left her there on the floor?

If Burke and JonBenet were looking for presents in the wine cellar wouldn't there be more foot prints in the dust and mold?

 

[redheadedgal]

I am wondering whether Patsy may have even drawn it on her after she was dead as a kind of "goodbye- my heart is in your hands" kind of farewell. Something to take to her grave with her. That is the only reason I can think of for Patsy to deny having seen the heart. When asked about that later she said that she "might have read about it" in the papers. Both parents denied ever reading the autopsy report, which noted the heart. Can't blame them for that, though.

that was my theory too... but someone involved in the initial investigation told me it was most likely drawn by jonbenet or one of her friends...

 

[LinasK]

1) Could JBR have smeared her own poop on the box of chocolates as a message to her abuser? Either JR or Burke to stay away from her, make her less attractive?

2) Why do people assume that John would throw a wool shirt down the laundry chute??? Wouldn't that just shrink it? Personally I'd dry clean a shirt like that, so I think John was wearing it that night and took it off to wipe JB down...

 

[dodie20]

1) Could JBR have smeared her own poop on the box of chocolates as a message to her abuser? Either JR or Burke to stay away from her, make her less attractive?

2) Why do people assume that John would throw a wool shirt down the laundry chute??? Wouldn't that just shrink it? Personally I'd dry clean a shirt like that, so I think John was wearing it that night and took it off to wipe JB down...

I've been thinking maybe JB smeared the feces on the chocolates, but I wouldn't have any idea why. We've read that she had wetting and soling problems, so it's possible. But, we've also read that BR, at 1 time had a problem with smearing feces, so he's a possibility too. Is this condition heriditary, or can it be learned behavior from 1 sibling to another? What I've been wondering is this...when the theory of the bedwetting rage came out, these investigators knew about the feces, right? So, if it was JB's, why didn't they include this in the rage theory? or if it was BRs, how could they dismiss his involvement, so easily? As far as the laundry goes, I'm not sure. I was surprised to read about the nightgown being stuck to the blanket, because that means they were probably laundered together. Most people separate their laundry, and would never wash garments with bedding. (although, I once saw my sister-in-law pull a load of laundry out of the dryer, and it was a mix of towels, blue jeans, and expensive bras). So, if the Rs were the kind of family to wash blankets with nightgowns, maybe it wasn't unusual to throw their wool shirts in with the regular dirty clothes. Not likely, but possible. moo

 

[txsvicki]

Maybe not as likely, but patsy could have been abusive when she was the only adult in the home and smeared a soiled garment on the candy box as a punishment. The reason i say that is because being suspicious that she may have had jonbenet sleep on wet stinky sheets and took them off before linda got there 3 days per week so she wouldn't know. Her telling a detective that jonbenet had infections due to wet panties from not wiping well is insane at age 61/2 if that is actually what she meant, so i wondered if she may have forced her to wear them wet after waking if no one was home. Patsy made several bizarre and inappropriate statements to detectives that imo showed her to be not all there as far as understanding children. Priscilla making a point to make jonbenet a plate is fishy too. Like maybe patsy was totally uninterested in feeding her kids, which also showed up in interviews.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Ah, but there was Internet back in those days... I had Prodigy back in 1996, and a personal computer in 1987.

I had prodigy back then too and omg how slow was dial up?!?!?!!! Can you even imagine having to go back? Thud!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chrishope]

Ah, but there was Internet back in those days... I had Prodigy back in 1996, and a personal computer in 1987.

I had a Commodore Vic 20 (what a piece of crap) in 1979. It wouldn't do anything, and there was no net to connect to. Didn't get another computer until the 90s.

 

[otg]

Patsy wasn't completely truthful about that heart. At first, she claimed to never have seen it- because she obviously couldn't admit that she actually saw the body. But when she mentioned the heart, she blew her cover- it was apparent that she HAD seen it. Yet she denied ever seeing her body until she threw herself on top of it after JR had been brought up. But by the time Patsy entered the room, JB was covered with an afghan and a sweatshirt, so she couldn't have seen it then.
The truth is- Patsy saw that heart that night. We don't know whether JB drew it herself or someone else drew it on her. Little girls do stuff like that and she and her friend DW, FW's daughter, may have done it. If JB came home with a little heart drawn on her hand, it wouldn't be suspicious to the average mom. So why deny having seen it? Again- the answer has to be that the Rs decided early on to say (or were TOLD to say) that JB fell asleep in the car and never woke up after they got home and they never saw her alive again.
I do recall reading LONG ago that Patsy and JB used to draw hearts in each other's hands and it meant "my heart is in your hands" - does any one else recall this? I can't have dreamed it up, I had to have read it somewhere long ago.

I remember this as well, DD.
.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

1) Could JBR have smeared her own poop on the box of chocolates as a message to her abuser? Either JR or Burke to stay away from her, make her less attractive?

2) Why do people assume that John would throw a wool shirt down the laundry chute??? Wouldn't that just shrink it? Personally I'd dry clean a shirt like that, so I think John was wearing it that night and took it off to wipe JB down...

I think LHP did the regular laundry and that is where she retrieved it from in the basement. I do have a question. If it was John who wipe JonBenet down how did he do it? Wouldn't he of had to take his shirt off first? That is why I think Pasty took John's shirt from the laundry chute in the basement, used it and put it back thinking it would not be noticed.
If that was the case I wonder what Pasty thoughts were when she found out about the fibers left behind?
Can you imagine what went through John mind (other than BS) when he heard about his shirt fibers on JonBenet? If he was left out of the loop I'm sure he knew how they got there and it was Pasty.

 

[midwest mama]

I remember that too. It is in one of her depos or interviews. It was the same interview she said "It's a pretty good little heart" or words to that effect.

Just now reading thru "JonBenet, The Police Files" which contains the interviews with the Ramseys. Pgs 190 - 194 contain the statements Patsy made to Tom Haney and Trip DeMuth about the heart:

"TH - How about, did she have any marks or markers or anything like that? PR - I didn't notice anything that night when she went to bed. And, you know, I know there was a red heart on her hand or her forehead. I don't know when that - I mean, you know, I didn't - I didn't inspect her when I put her to bed."...."TD - How do you know there was a heart on her hand? PR - Because it was there in the morning, that's why. TD - And you remember if from the next morning? PR - Uh huh. TD - You saw it the next morning? PR - Uh huh."......."TD - Did you ever see a heart on her hand before? PR - Not specifically a heart. TD - What might you have seen before? PR - Just markings, you know, just erratic marks, maybe, she had been coloring, pen or ink marks..."

The conversation then goes on about Patsy drawing smiley faces on JB's hand and Patsy said she wouldn't do that and would discourage JB from drawing on her hands because of the pageants, and needing to be free of marks.....and ends up her comments with "that was a pretty good little heart........"

Then the next day of her interviews, she changed her story and made this statement to Tom Haney "PR....I think that I read somewhere talking about the heart on her hand. And truthfully, I can't...I am having trouble distinguishing whether I have read about that or whether I actually saw that. I just recently read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe that was on there. And I just, you know, now I have a picture of a heart on her hand and I can't remember whether I actually saw it or ---"

HOW IN THE WORLD ARE WE EVER TO MAKE HEADS OR TALES OF WHAT PATSY TOLD THE AUTHORITIES OR QUOTED IN HER BOOK?? Garbledegook if you ask me!

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Maybe not as likely, but patsy could have been abusive when she was the only adult in the home and smeared a soiled garment on the candy box as a punishment. The reason i say that is because being suspicious that she may have had jonbenet sleep on wet stinky sheets and took them off before linda got there 3 days per week so she wouldn't know. Her telling a detective that jonbenet had infections due to wet panties from not wiping well is insane at age 61/2 if that is actually what she meant, so i wondered if she may have forced her to wear them wet after waking if no one was home. Patsy made several bizarre and inappropriate statements to detectives that imo showed her to be not all there as far as understanding children. Priscilla making a point to make jonbenet a plate is fishy too. Like maybe patsy was totally uninterested in feeding her kids, which also showed up in interviews.

If Pasty did make her wear wet panties (or even poopie panties) wouldn't JonBenet of left wet spots where ever she sat?

I wonder about JonBenet feeling safer when John was home. Did Pasty act different towards Burke and JonBenet when he was home? Or in front of LHP when she was there? Has anything ever been said about how the kids were treated or how they acted when alone with Pasty and then with John home or from work or a trip?

I've seen many parents (mostly mothers) that ignore their children, but pay attention to other children right in front of them. I mean coming in the door and your child is happy to see you and goes to them and their moms would turn their attention to another child. When that child would leave mom would still ignore their own.
I've have an ex daughter in law that would do that repeatedly to her children. She also would make herself a plate and sit to eat, but none for her own children. Sorry I still hate what's she's done to my grand kids.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't know about wearing poopy panties around other than all the stained ones in the drawer, but am just thinki g of lhp's comment that changing sheets was the only work she ever saw patsy do, which is odd to me. Patsy admitting that jonbenet went around wet is odd too, and lhp does insinuate in her book that jonbenet was punished for bedwetting.

 

[UKGuy]

I think LHP did the regular laundry and that is where she retrieved it from in the basement. I do have a question. If it was John who wipe JonBenet down how did he do it? Wouldn't he of had to take his shirt off first? That is why I think Pasty took John's shirt from the laundry chute in the basement, used it and put it back thinking it would not be noticed.
If that was the case I wonder what Pasty thoughts were when she found out about the fibers left behind?
Can you imagine what went through John mind (other than BS) when he heard about his shirt fibers on JonBenet? If he was left out of the loop I'm sure he knew how they got there and it was Pasty.

ILikeToBendPages,
I doubt this, LEA would have found the shirt, not to say they missed it, but they requested the clothing the R's wore to the White's.



.

 

[rashomon]

The note was written for a purpose, no question. I can't imagine anyone with any LE experience doubting that.

Of course the note was written for a purpose.
The Ramseys' purpose in concocting the note was to conceal to LE that JonBenet had been the victim of a domestic homicide.

But a person who is doing something to achieve a specific goal does not necessarily proceed in a 'rational' way.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

ILikeToBendPages,
I doubt this, LEA would have found the shirt, not to say they missed it, but they requested the clothing the R's wore to the White's.



.

Yes they did, but it took the Ramsey how long to give it to them? Several months to a year? If Pasty used it and then put it back, she could of thought it would be overlooked as not being involved in the crime. LE at that time wasn't looking for any clothes of Pasty or John. I guess that would of been one thing Pam Paugh wasn't asked to remove?

 

[dodie20]

I think LHP did the regular laundry and that is where she retrieved it from in the basement. I do have a question. If it was John who wipe JonBenet down how did he do it? Wouldn't he of had to take his shirt off first? That is why I think Pasty took John's shirt from the laundry chute in the basement, used it and put it back thinking it would not be noticed.
If that was the case I wonder what Pasty thoughts were when she found out about the fibers left behind?
Can you imagine what went through John mind (other than BS) when he heard about his shirt fibers on JonBenet? If he was left out of the loop I'm sure he knew how they got there and it was Pasty.

I'm confused. This shirt's fibers were found on JB, right? If she had been wiped down with it, wouldn't her blood, urine, mucus or whatever was wiped, have showed up on the shirt, during testing? And since the fibers were found on her, if he had also wiped himself, wouldn't the mixed fluid/dna have showed up?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I'm confused. This shirt's fibers were found on JB, right? If she had been wiped down with it, wouldn't her blood, urine, mucus or whatever was wiped, have showed up on the shirt, during testing? And since the fibers were found on her, if he had also wiped himself, wouldn't the mixed fluid/dna have showed up?

I'm sure they had sent it out to be cleaned a few times before they sent it to LE.

Pasty's sweater was said to look like it had just been bought. It still had the fold marks.

 

[BOESP]

[snip]
TD - How do you know there was a heart on her hand? PR - Because it was there in the morning, that's why. TD - And you remember if from the next morning? PR - Uh huh. TD - You saw it the next morning? PR - Uh huh."......."TD - Did you ever see a heart on her hand before? PR - Not specifically a heart. [snip]

Then the next day of her interviews, she changed her story and made this statement to Tom Haney "PR....I think that I read somewhere talking about the heart on her hand. And truthfully, I can't...I am having trouble distinguishing whether I have read about that or whether I actually saw that. I just recently read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe that was on there. And I just, you know, now I have a picture of a heart on her hand and I can't remember whether I actually saw it or ---"

HOW IN THE WORLD ARE WE EVER TO MAKE HEADS OR TALES OF WHAT PATSY TOLD THE AUTHORITIES OR QUOTED IN HER BOOK?? Garbledegook if you ask me!

My take on the above has always been that Patsy slipped up and reported seeing the heart on JonBenet's hand "the next morning," meaning the morning of the 26th. When she realized she had admitted seeing it before JonBenet was brought up from the basement she knew she was in trouble so she back-tracked by having Ramnesia.