IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #11

[cindersoot]

So...don't you think that if the family was involved in anyway, the case would be solved by now?

 

[JodiR]

No, that wouldn't have been possible. It would have been way too far away with the wooded area in between the areas. I don't think a car could drive down the bike trail. Maybe a local could clarify that for us.

The purse was between the fence and the lake. It was 10 feet to the east of the bikes and two feet from the fence. According to DM, FWIW, the bikes were found right by the open gate that led from the trail into the area by the lake.

MOO, the girls were sitting down inside the area between the fence and the lake. I believe they were visiting/chatting with the perp. there and he/she/they lead them from that spot through the open gate and onto the trail. Then, past the bikes which had been parked there, and into a vehicle that came by at just at the right time. Perfect timing.

That's how I've imagined it in my mind. Familiar perp(s). An accomplice.

The double fence prevents a car from going in. So throwing the purse from a car would not have been possible and have it land where it did.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Dylan was 11 and Shasta was 8 when kidnapped.

So true, but that was actually a multiple murder followed by abduction.

Not the same thing at all.

Further, the perp in that case had all the time and privacy in the world to do exactly what he wanted.

That is not the case here.

 

[roseofsharon]

Oh..and it's not a straight path is curves slightly.

Hi Cindersoot ... Did you ride the entire path up to Artubus to that area that looks like a parking space and the maintenance shed?

I think this is the path called Maiden Lane that Otto found for us.

I was wondering if you saw anything such as equipment or tools near the shed or on the path.

TIA

 

[Bootsctr]

Goodnight everyone. fftobed: Gotta get off and :bath:. Both the dog :beagle: and hubby are jealous of the computer tonight. Just want to add that Lyric and Elizabeth could not have a better group of people wishing them to return safely to home. Looking forward to reading everyone's posts tomorrow!

 

[cluciano63]

So...don't you think that if the family was involved in anyway, the case would be solved by now?

Hard to say; there are many unsolved cases right now where the family has not been cleared, and some cases where family is considered the focus, i.e. Ayla. Yet remain unsolved.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Personal space and comfort zones are very subjective and highly dependent upon culture.

I know I feel faintly ill at ease with most people because almost everyone I meet invades my personal space. Even if they are not physically in my space, they are intrusive with their eyes.

But I was raised by a Korean father. Personal space in Korea is larger than the US and it is considered very rude to look directly at other people as you pass them on the street, etc.

When strangers look at me, it feels rude, disrespectful and invasive, even though I know intellectually that it isn't rude or invasive for most USAns.

Culturally, many Latinos have much less personal space than most USAns.

If I went by my personal feelings, I'd be on the phone to 911 constantly.

I took my kids to China and they were constanly being touched and photographed by the locals. My daughter was a blue eyed blonde and found it creepy until I explained that she was just a novelty to them.

They get right up in your face in China/HK and think nothing of it, us aussies are backing away like mad.

We have massive personal space here, about a metre if I remember rightly. In more crowded countries it's less than half that.

 

[jacy]

Her story morphed over time; in this article, it says the man made a gesture towards her face. LE also said that the location of the incident had changed:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_52807f14-d6a3-11e1-a10d-001a4bcf887a.html

I've no doubt that right now, there are a lot of hyper-vigilant people. Which means that there may be a higher chance than someone with innocent intentions may be misconstrued.

Thank you for this. I'd not seen the follow-up and couldn't understand how touching a child was not suspect.

That hyper-vigilance is far reaching. I'm in Texas and today we left a pool early when a man stood in the water staring at us the entire time. Maybe he simply thought my kids were cute, but mentally I'm not in that place.

 

[JenInNs]

So, *IF* the three creeps in the white van were the ones who took E & L, then where are E & L?? Have they gotten rid of them? Or are there more in this creep group and they are with them?

not saying this is what I think... just what I'm wondering if they are the ones responsible and questions that would need to be answered

 

[cindersoot]

Hi Cindersoot ... Did you ride the entire path up to Artubus to that area that looks like a parking space and the maintenance shed?

I think this is the path called Maiden Lane that Otto found for us.

I was wondering if you saw anything such as equipment or tools near the shed or on the path.

TIA

All I can say is the path around the lake leads directly to the grassy field or empty lot. The path in question, I never saw. Now on Lake st, there is a shed or maybe a pumphouse, and it is clearly visible from the street, not way back.

 

[cindersoot]

So, *IF* the three creeps in the white van were the ones who took E & L, then where are E & L?? Have they gotten rid of them? Or are there more in this creep group and they are with them?

not saying this is what I think... just what I'm wondering if they are the ones responsible and questions that would need to be answered

My theory is they were sold to other perps. God, I hope not though.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thank you for this. I'd not seen the follow-up and couldn't understand how touching a child was not suspect.

That hyper-vigilance is far reaching. I'm in Texas and today we left a pool early when a man stood in the water staring at us the entire time. Maybe he simply thought my kids were cute, but mentally I'm not in that place.

I would have no compunction whatsoever about walking right up to him and telling him to piss off.

Grown men have NO BUSINESS watching children, these days, unless the kids belong to them. Even if it is totally innocent, he still needs to be aware of what it looks like to others.

We all must be vigilant...but sadly, most sexual abuse occurs within the home by perps who are close to the child.

 

[mahoolin]

Personal space and comfort zones are very subjective and highly dependent upon culture.

I know I feel faintly ill at ease with most people because almost everyone I meet invades my personal space. Even if they are not physically in my space, they are intrusive with their eyes.

But I was raised by a Korean father. Personal space in Korea is larger than the US and it is considered very rude to look directly at other people as you pass them on the street, etc.

When strangers look at me, it feels rude, disrespectful and invasive, even though I know intellectually that it isn't rude or invasive for most USAns.

Culturally, many Latinos have much less personal space than most USAns.

If I went by my personal feelings, I'd be on the phone to 911 constantly.

BBM
...and there are those who don't get that unspoken rule about the amount of personal space we all get. I used to work with a girl years ago and although she was nice enough to work with, it was really uncomfortable as I was constantly backing up. I wasn't the only one, but she just didn't get it for some reason. :waitasec:

That was the first time I was aware of my personal space - guess everyone else up until then followed the rule -

 

[katydid23]

So...don't you think that if the family was involved in anyway, the case would be solved by now?

Not necessarily. imo

[ I am NOT saying the family was involved. I really have no idea. Just saying that even if someone connected to the family was involved, we might not know it yet, if ever.]

 

[whittymom4]

So...don't you think that if the family was involved in anyway, the case would be solved by now?

Yep, I don't think they could collectively keep this a secret. Their actions would be very telling, JMO of course....

But one more thought, I still do not understand the disconnection between MM and Lyric. If I was having trouble and my family were raising my daughter, I would still love her and think of her all the time, and my daughter would never doubt my love for her.

If I were in MM's shoes right now I would be searching and just dying inside, wouldn't you just want to scream? I don't know how the Collins mom can go on.... I pray for her...

 

[Considering]

All I can say is the path around the lake leads directly to the grassy field or empty lot. The path in question, I never saw. Now on Lake st, there is a shed or maybe a pumphouse, and it is clearly visible from the street, not way back.

I had a question regarding this pump and the lake the other day. If anyone had the answer, I missed it so I'll ask again. Who takes care of the pump? Is the city workers or is the work contracted out with a local company?

 

[cluciano63]

Yep, I don't think they could collectively keep this a secret. Their actions would be very telling, JMO of course....

But one more thought, I still do not understand the disconnection between MM and Lyric. If I was having trouble and my family were raising my daughter, I would still love her and think of her all the time, and my daughter would never doubt my love for her.

If I were in MM's shoes right now I would be searching and just dying inside, wouldn't you just want to scream? I don't know how the Collins mom can go on.... I pray for her...

But look at Haleigh Cummings case, as well as Ayla Reynolds...many believe that a group of people might know what happened to the children and yet no one has "broken"...and these seemed to be some rather dysfunctional groups.

 

[cindersoot]

Yep, I don't think they could collectively keep this a secret. Their actions would be very telling, JMO of course....

But one more thought, I still do not understand the disconnection between MM and Lyric. If I was having trouble and my family were raising my daughter, I would still love her and think of her all the time, and my daughter would never doubt my love for her.

If I were in MM's shoes right now I would be searching and just dying inside, wouldn't you just want to scream? I don't know how the Collins mom can go on.... I pray for her...

Me, I would be conducting searches or something. OMG i would be going nuts, they would have to medicate me for sure.

 

[SapphireSteel]

"solving" it and "proving" it are two different things.

These days juries are smart and watch tv so they all want forensics, DNA, as well as means and motive.

It is still early days. Keep the faith.

 

[cindersoot]

I had a question regarding this pump and the lake the other day. If anyone had the answer, I missed it so I'll ask again. Who takes care of the pump? Is the city workers or is the work contracted out with a local company?

I don't know if it's a pump house thats what it looked like to me. On Lake st, there is a curve and it sits right next to the tree line which is on the left of the lake if you were at the lake front ( parking lot).