IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[otto]

How accurate? Is the trail within the triangulation? FWIW, I'm just asking, not challenging.

That depends on the locations of the three towers. The signal is bounced off each of the towers, so the call can be confirmed to have originated from that triangulated region.

 

[otto]

I knew someone would question that!

I haven't seen it indicated that these people have any drug or criminal issues, RSO affiliations, dysfunctional family or financial dynamics, no known connection to the girls or their family, thus no obvious reason to lie about what they saw. They appear to be law-abiding citizens just doing the right thing and reporting what they saw, no matter how relevant or irrelevant.

Don't read more into my statement than what I stated...and I wouldn't agree with your "no one" above.

Since Elizabeth rode her bike there every evening and often talked with the neighbors, other people will have confirmed the statement.

 

[hollyblue]

So...does one ride the bike all the way from there and back..or drive up and ride some..?

Bike. Working on a map. Over 7 mi. one way.

 

[otto]

Mr. Pahl said that, but I haven't seen any official source stating that. I find that curious, since this video is the last known sighting of Lyric and Elizabeth. It was thoroughly reviewed by the FBI, yet the FBI has not stated that the time should be 12:19 rather than 12:11. It seems to me that 8 minutes would make a HUGE difference, especially if the bikes TG swerved to miss at 12:20 (approx) belonged to the girls.

Either LE thinks Mr. Pahl is mistaken about the 8 minute time difference, or they don't think the video is that important, IMO.

ETA: link to story about video and Mr. Pahl: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

It seems that Mr Pahl was interviewed after police finished looking at his video tape, and at that time he volunteered that the video camera is 8 minutes slower than his cell phone. I don't think police need to confirm that. Either he's telling the truth or he's lying ... either way, police haven't corrected him. I doubt he would lie about it after giving similar information to investigators.

 

[RNER]

If I look at 1020 Lake on google earth. I see one house with a driveway and a car surrounded by lush green lawn.

Not quite sure where this "dead lawn" comes from?

We water our grass daily for 2-3 hours on a timed sprinkler connected to the hose. Although we aren't out there for the entire 3 hours, we go out every 30minutes or so and move the sprinkler. We have the greenest grass on the street (and now the only green grass), and the neighbors joke about it. Perhaps Mr. C's "watering" can be verified by neighbors like I am sure ours can for us. I would definately be able to tell LE that I saw the girls riding by my house if I saw them "while watering my yard from 12-3", but maybe couldn't pinpoint a specific time because it would have been during one of the trips outside to change the position of the sprinkler.

 

[nikb]

I think there used to be a sentence, in the South anyway, of life-and-a-day which guaranteed the convict would die in prison. Reasoning was he/she could serve the life sentence but could never fulfill the addition of the extra day after life.

Makes sense. I know that here in California I've heard of them giving "a year and a day" because they couldn't justify much longer but anything under a year went to local jails, anything over a year went to prison - much harsher place to go. I think now the system's so bogged down they don't bother, because by the time the person gets transferred to prison they're about done with their sentence, but it sounds like a similar concept.

I never understood why judges would sometimes give 2 or 3 "life without the possibility of parole" sentences until I learned more about the jail/prison time vs. actual time.

(sorry if this has been re-hashed already, I'm just catching up)

 

[otto]

We water our grass daily for 2-3 hours on a timed sprinkler connected to the hose. Although we aren't out there for the entire 3 hours, we go out every 30minutes or so and move the sprinkler. We have the greenest grass on the street (and now the only green grass), and the neighbors joke about it. Perhaps Mr. C's "watering" can be verified by neighbors like I am sure ours can for us. I would definately be able to tell LE that I saw the girls riding by my house if I saw them "while watering my yard from 12-3", but maybe couldn't pinpoint a specific time because it would have been during one of the trips outside to change the position of the sprinkler.

Since, according to the tip, the girls rode their bikes there nightly and talked with people on the street, it can be easily confirmed or discredited by police. If investigators accepted the tip, it's interesting that they were also looking at a white van on the other side of the park.

 

[Jax49]

more interesting info from that article

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/r...11e1-b097-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

Police taped off the area of the nature trail where the bikes were found, which is right across the gate allowing access to the drainage outlet. A police officer will monitor the progress continually until the lake is drained.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Since Elizabeth rode her bike there every evening and often talked with the neighbors, other people will have confirmed the statement.

I don't mean to be snarky, but we really don't know Elizabeth rode her bike there every evening. Mr. C recalls seeing her often, but we can't be sure.

It's important to note that LE is not using Mr. C's sighting on their timeline. I think Mr. C may be mistaken in how often he has seen Elizabeth, or possibly even mistaken another girl for her. If other witnesses had come forward saying they, too, had seen Elizabeth in that area frequently, I think LE would have said so. If LE can't be 100% certain of Mr. C's sighting, then I don't think we should be, either. IMO

Ditto with TG's sighting of the bikes. LE has no way of knowing whether those bikes were the girls' bikes TG saw and therefore, they are not using this in their timeline.

Officially the time when the abduction could have taken place is 12:15 p.m. when they are seen by Grandma to 4:00 when the bikes were found by the firefighter.

Sorry, I kind of jumped off your post and onto other issues.

 

[hollyblue]

So...does one ride the bike all the way from there and back..or drive up and ride some..?

OK, this is taking the trail from Gilbertsville to 640 Arbutus. Easy access from downtown G'bville across the river. I won't list TG's addy, but it's in this area, yet the PO is Waterloo. Map is for bike. Hope this works. :banghead:

http://goo.gl/maps/glVla

 

[JaimeInLA]

Do we know what gas station TG stopped at to go to the bathroom? Could the reason LE released the Casey's video and wanted to talk to the van guy be that they were trying to verify if TG were really there? And if so, that TG was there when he said he was there?

 

[otto]

more interesting info from that article

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/r...11e1-b097-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true

Police taped off the area of the nature trail where the bikes were found, which is right across the gate allowing access to the drainage outlet. A police officer will monitor the progress continually until the lake is drained.

I think that confirms that the bikes were at the double gate next to the drainage pipe.

 

[hollyblue]

What is the significance of River Forest Road in the abduction?

Otto, I tried to map it this way from 166 Brovan and could get as far as the north entry to the trail on Gilbert. It was 4 minutes, then you have to consider the time to get around the lake to the gate. I tried to skim by taking it to I-380 just below the gate area, but the map wanted to take it to the next exit east. :banghead:

 

[otto]

I don't mean to be snarky, but we really don't know Elizabeth rode her bike there every evening. Mr. C recalls seeing her often, but we can't be sure.

<Respectfully snipped>

Sorry, I kind of jumped off your post and onto other issues.

The tip given by the man that was watering his lawn is that: he saw Elizabeth and Lyric between 12 and 3, and that he sees Elizabeth every evening when she talks with people on the street. He seems to believe that the girl he saw between noon and 3 is the same one that he sees nightly. If that is Elizabeth, then his tip pans out. If it is not, then there's a possibility that he is mistaken that it was Elizabeth and Lyric on the bikes between noon and 3.

 

[hollyblue]

Map by way of River Forest to Lake:

http://binged.it/RJNty6

 

[otto]

Map by way of River Forest to Lake:

http://binged.it/RJNty6

The bing maps aren't opening for me. That doesn't mean much, since my computer is temperamental ... but I can't see them. Is this a question about the route taken by the cyclist? I don't think that really matters. He rode his bike from home to the trail regularly and since there's a loop around the lake, I doubt he doubled back on the trail at any time. Where he was before and after doesn't matter much since he was on his bike ... hardly the getaway vehicle for abducting 2 girls in about 6 minutes.

 

[Jax49]

The tip given by the man that was watering his lawn is that: he saw Elizabeth and Lyric between 12 and 3, and that he sees Elizabeth every evening when she talks with people on the street. He seems to believe that the girl he saw between noon and 3 is the same one that he sees nightly. If that is Elizabeth, then his tip pans out. If it is not, then there's a possibility that he is mistaken that it was Elizabeth and Lyric on the bikes between noon and 3.

A couple of things lead me to credit Mr. C's sighting. Mrs. C said that she saw Elizabeth 'every night' so its not just Mr. C who believes the little girl is Elizabeth. And, they describe Elizabeth's personality the same way her family and teacher do. Outgoing, talkative and friendly. MOO

 

[Confusion]

Do we know what gas station TG stopped at to go to the bathroom? Could the reason LE released the Casey's video and wanted to talk to the van guy be that they were trying to verify if TG were really there? And if so, that TG was there when he said he was there?

Interesting thought, but I believe they said that the guy in the van was there about 2 pm and TG would have been there before 12:30

 

[rjjensen]

Mr. Pahl said that, but I haven't seen any official source stating that. I find that curious, since this video is the last known sighting of Lyric and Elizabeth. It was thoroughly reviewed by the FBI, yet the FBI has not stated that the time should be 12:19 rather than 12:11. It seems to me that 8 minutes would make a HUGE difference, especially if the bikes TG swerved to miss at 12:20 (approx) belonged to the girls.

Either LE thinks Mr. Pahl is mistaken about the 8 minute time difference, or they don't think the video is that important, IMO.

ETA: link to story about video and Mr. Pahl: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

yes..good point and its an important one because it establishes the start of the timeline. if its 12:11 it works...if its 12:19 it doesnt

 

[Marilynilpa]

The tip given by the man that was watering his lawn is that: he saw Elizabeth and Lyric between 12 and 3, and that he sees Elizabeth every evening when she talks with people on the street. He seems to believe that the girl he saw between noon and 3 is the same one that he sees nightly. If that is Elizabeth, then his tip pans out. If it is not, then there's a possibility that he is mistaken that it was Elizabeth and Lyric on the bikes between noon and 3.

Right, Mr. C. says he saw the girls between 12 and 3 (well, actually, he said 12 to 1, but his wife corrected him and said 12 to 3).

But unless there is an article I missed (which is likely), Mr. C has never claimed to see Elizabeth riding her bike every night.

“The girls rode their bikes right by our house,” Carpenter said. “We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street.”

BBM

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120718/NEWS/307180024/1029/BUSINESS/?odyssey=nav|head

But I don't think he saw both of the girls "practically all the time" since Lyric wasn't there all the time, right? I thought she had only been there for the past 5 weeks???

I am not suspecting Mr. C of anything other than being a concerned citizen reporting what he thinks he's seen. Whether or not that is accurate is something no one can say, IMO.