IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[imamaze]

No disrespect intended, but how can we possibly discuss this if the only scenarios we're allowed to talk about are stranger abductions? I really don't understand how discussing the possibliity of it being someone who had groomed one of the girls, was a possible friend of someone close by, or someone who was familiar but not known to the girls points at any particular person. I can understand most of the others being snipped.

Confusion,

We don't discuss anyone here until or unless they have been named a person of interest and or suspect. You can certainly discuss anyone named in the media and what is known thru the media. We are a victim friendly site so family is considered victims unless law enforcement says something different.

You can discuss family, friends etc. that are in the media. No bashing of course.

We certainly don't want to accuse anyone of being a suspect here. If and when law enforcement names someone it can't be discussed in that manner. What is known thru law enforcement and the media can be discussed.

If you have any other questions you can pm me or any Mod here, we are happy to answer any questions you have.

Ima

 

[GrainneDhu]

Right... not all troubled kids threaten to run away. OTOH, some who come from stable and loving families will sometimes
make threats. Kids are unpredictable, you just never know what they're going to do. If the thought of running away never occurred to your children, congratulations, you must have done a good job. But that doesn't mean it won't or hasn't occurred to other kids, no matter what kind of home they live in.
My parents were good, normal parents and there was no abuse going on when I was growing up. My father did not drink or beat up my mother and they did not fight all the time... though they did argue once in a while. But I threatened to run away at least a couple of times, maybe more. My mother's remedy was to offer to help me pack and tell me to call home every chance I got. I never carried through with my threats.
The point is, it doesn't matter what kind of home a child lives in or how good or bad their parents are, it's the child's ability to handle stress and their individual temperament that determines what they do and how they react.

I agree with everything you wrote.

It did remind me of something funny my ex-sil said many, many years ago after she had her first baby: "imaginary children are so much easier to raise because you get to pick their personalities for them."

Otherwise stated as the Harvard law: under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases.

 

[threecrazykids]

I didn't have to download either, thank goodness. I do not trust downloads that I do not actually seek out and know are safe from trojans, spyware, etc.
As for the movie. It seems a lot of viewers commenting believe the footage was actually real abduction footage. It is not. The story touts itself as "based on a true story". It is loosely based on certain pieces of 7 abductions. I should have skipped through parts. I agree with you on it being not Oscar material.

I know it's not real abduction footage, but sadly it is almost exactly like the video of the girl who was abducted behind the car wash. THAT part of the video was the least troublesome. The pictures of "Megan" in that contraption and the last 20 mins of the "footage" from the video camera is what is so disturbing.

What makes me even more sick is to realize those things DO happen, and even though WE don't see videos, pictures, etc. there are people within the FBI/Interpol who DO watch REAL footage of those things happening EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want my hour and a half back too...if only to get those images out of my head.

 

[Marilynilpa]

No disrespect intended, but how can we possibly discuss this if the only scenarios we're allowed to talk about are stranger abductions? I really don't understand how discussing the possibliity of it being someone who had groomed one of the girls, was a possible friend of someone close by, or someone who was familiar but not known to the girls points at any particular person. I can understand most of the others being snipped.

No one said all we can talk about is stranger abductions, IMO. I believe we can talk in general terms about any scenario, as we have been doing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Missing girls update: Gosch helps in search effort

DES MOINES, Iowa -
The mother of missing paperboy Johnny Gosch is helping Wednesday in the search for two missing Iowa girls from Evansdale.

Noreen Gosch will be at a booth setup at the Iowa State Fair to help collect clues in the case. The booth is located in the Grandstand in the Hall of Law.

Anyone with information on the case should call 319-232-6682 or Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers at 855-300-8477.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...16052336/-/mnf1llz/-/index.html#ixzz23dBKnxuE

SBM

Well, Noreen Gosch is an expert at getting media attention, so perhaps she will find some way to get more media attention for the girls.

 

[Confusion]

No one said all we can talk about is stranger abductions, IMO. I believe we can talk in general terms about any scenario, as we have been doing.

Actually, she did. I had a list of types of people who are often involved in abductions, and she removed all except stranger abductions saying the rest weren't allowed.

 

[Thespyma]

I know it's not real abduction footage, but sadly it is almost exactly like the video of the girl who was abducted behind the car wash. THAT part of the video was the least troublesome. The pictures of "Megan" in that contraption and the last 20 mins of the "footage" from the video camera is what is so disturbing.

What makes me even more sick is to realize those things DO happen, and even though WE don't see videos, pictures, etc. there are people within the FBI/Interpol who DO watch REAL footage of those things happening EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want my hour and a half back too...if only to get those images out of my head.

Fair enough. I guess being privy to the real deal (from several perspectives) has given me the ability to see the film's footage as very fake looking and I can distance myself. I am well aware that horrible atrocities happen, every day to precious innocents. I want to do what I can to help prevent some of them. I just wish I had a way to be there and give real in person help in this case. I am sure LE and FBI are working continually (some all night long) to find the girls. Even the most tempered professional gets emotionally involved with each case which helps keep them motivated,and I am sure it is the same is this case with both local and federal LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think Grandma and Heather didn't let the girls go out by themselves as much as some others did. Both said the girls wouldn't have went as far as the lake and I believe Heather said they'd never been there. I'm sure LE knows alot more.

SBM

I think you're right. I believe the reason Grandma Cook got in her car and started searching at 12:30 pm when she'd last seen the girls at 12:15 pm was because she was used to seeing them roll by every 15 minutes or so.

I'm sure she probably tried calling for them a few times (boy, does that bring my childhood back!) and when they didn't come to call, she started searching.

I think it's possible that Elizabeth and/or Lyric had made the lake ride a few times with permission and supervision.

Interviews can be misleading because sometimes context is missing or the person being interview interprets a question differently than the interviewer meant it.

 

[Sere-nity]

I won't name names, but I want to throw out my current theory.

Over the course of the summer one male who has the appearance of a younger teen but is in his 20s befriends one or both of the girls. This male has had a sexual offence history but it was when he was a juvenile and so it is not on his record. He tells the girls that he will be at the lake on that Friday the 13th but is planning to move soon so he wants to say goodbye. They meet him by the lake and they are having a good time messing around the jetty area. The male seems to be concerned so the girls ask him what's wrong. He says that he has run away and people may be looking for him. Then suddenly a bike rider comes by and he says RUN. The purse is forgotten and they run and follow him to his car.

 

[jacy]

I know it's not real abduction footage, but sadly it is almost exactly like the video of the girl who was abducted behind the car wash. THAT part of the video was the least troublesome. The pictures of "Megan" in that contraption and the last 20 mins of the "footage" from the video camera is what is so disturbing.

What makes me even more sick is to realize those things DO happen, and even though WE don't see videos, pictures, etc. there are people within the FBI/Interpol who DO watch REAL footage of those things happening EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want my hour and a half back too...if only to get those images out of my head.

Thanks to all for the heads up. I'll dip a toe in O/T because the bottom line is protection of children and end results. There is an extremely well done documentary, "Dear Zachary," which will rip your heart to shreds. I sobbed during and after, but there is a theme throughout of love, the power of the human spirit, and the changing of laws in the favor of the child that makes up for the pain of watching. That doc is worth the time because of the incredible inspiration. But like I said, it breaks your heart.

This case breaks my heart. I think of the girls as I buy school supplies for my own children. If we can alter the Amber Alert because of this, fantastic. But I'm down on my knees begging these baby girls are brought home safely. Too much time is passing. Someone mentioned how we repeat all the facts we repeat, and then we repeat them again. We talk too much! Thank goodness, because all that chatter is all of us together hoping. We will not give up. Hugs to you all.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Thanks Otto. That was the conclusion I just came to as well after watching it and doing a little research. All that came up on Google was the movie, not anything about a real person. I hope that it's not based on fact and even then I'm a little scared about the person who came up with the 'fictional' story. I'm trying to decide if I should delete my posts about it, but I think I'll at least delete the link I quoted for now.

It's not a true story but it is based on real events that have occurred.One being about Ashley Marie Pond & Miranda Gaddis. Marc klaas wrote a letter about it here. http://meganismissing.com/press/klaas.html

But back to the girls. Did Lyric have a Skype account?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something else re: paddleboat stealing and/or teenagers and human trafficking. Would traffickers have teenage accomplices? Either local gang members / troubled kids who they groom to trust them, or else trafficked kids they captured years back and are resigned to the life? Teens who earn money and some modicum of extra freedom by helping their masters bring more kids into that nasty scene? Teens who wouldn't give two craps about stealing someone's paddleboat, or flirting with Lyric to set up a meeting, or this that and the other?

Respectfully, abducting loved and wanted children from their families in the US is not a viable business model.

The vast majority of sex workers in the US were runaway kids, throwaway kids or drug addicts who needed a way to afford their habit. Pimps (the old word for human trafficker) do deliberately get kids hooked as a means of getting them into the life but it's not usually an instantaneous thing like an abduction.

Most pimps rely on seduction to get their victims initially. They shower their prospective victim with attention, approval, pseudo-love. And then, once the victim has some trust and has a crush on them, they start putting them out on the street. Pretty quickly, the attention and pseudo-love turn into threats and beatings.

I haven't read anything about Elizabeth or Lyric yet to suggest they were getting that sort of attention. They sound like they were normally well supervised.

The problem of human trafficking tends to flow from impoverished countries (like some of the former Soviet bloc states, southeast Asia, Central and South America) and towards the US. If you think about it, that makes sense because the crime follows the money.

There are a handful of cases where abductees were trafficked or sent to other countries from the US but those are "man bites dog" cases. They are not the usual case.

If you think if human trafficking as a business, it makes it easier to understand. Grotesque as the thought is, it really is a business.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm also very interested in the kid that was fishing, and what he did or didn't see. I wish we could get a start and end time on his outing.

As for where he was fishing, he was probably on the north side of the lake near the parking lot.

SBM

I'm certain you're correct here. Aunt TB saw him when she pulled up into the parking lot area.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Here is the one you requested. I have another one coming...

River Forest Road to Jones - YouTube

Is there a store along this route? Just thinking that maybe they were going to the store and then thought of going to Meyers Lake?

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is close...12 year old victim!

http://www.cbs2iowa.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12315.shtml?wap=0&

That's pretty disgusting.

However, I doubt this is the perp in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. He was already having success finding a victim online; abducting two unwilling girls is a quite different thing.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

SBM

Well, Noreen Gosch is an expert at getting media attention, so perhaps she will find some way to get more media attention for the girls.

Noreen Gosch is a very engaging woman (I took a yoga class from her) and I think it will serve the girls well to have her helping the families. She is very aware of not only how to get media attention, but also how the sharp and often critical eye focuses on the families of the missing. I hope she can be a great resource for them.

I do quite a bit of work with the missing and unidentified, and I can say without a doubt, there are monsters in the world who prey upon the young. Many times it's a monster in the family, but I just don't see it here.

As the media attention focuses to newer, fresher horrors, the pain of these families will never go away. There is never closure for the families of the missing.

We had hummingbirds at our feeder today, and I thought of the girls.

 

[Confusion]

That's pretty disgusting.

However, I doubt this is the perp in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. He was already having success finding a victim online; abducting two unwilling girls is a quite different thing.

I also got the impression he was more into "relationships" with girls than abducting them. As sick as it is, I think he considers what he did totally different and somehow okay.

 

[Pensfan]

SBM

Well, Noreen Gosch is an expert at getting media attention, so perhaps she will find some way to get more media attention for the girls.

I hope Heather has other support. I am unsure about the health of Noreen.

 

[mahoolin]

Doesn't every kid threaten or attempt to run away from home at one point or another over even the dumbest thing? I think this is normal behaviour for a kid. Even Opie did it on "The Andy Griffith Show."

I have a friend who decided to run away as a small child (for something trivial I'm sure).:run: Her mom helped her pack her bag, then reminded her what they were going to have for dinner.(only her favorite meal) Mom watched her carry her little overnight bag to the bottom of their street and watched from their front porch. She sat down on the curb for a few minutes obviously contemplating the thoughts of missing dinner. She was home within 10 minutes.
Mom helped her unpack her bag, and all was forgotten. :sunshine:

I halfheartedly threatened to run away as a child, I think more for the adventure than anything else (coming from a closely supervised upbringing), but I do think each situation is different as to why. Maybe for understandable reasons; maybe for drama. Each situation deserves it's own scrutiny. From the info available to me, I don't there was anything sinister behind Lyric's running away threat, but that's just MHOO.

I think grandma handled it perfect with a big hug. Growing up in a multi-generational household with multiple bosses it was often confusing for me as a child, so I think I might understand part of Lyric's frustration.

Girls, we're working on bringing you home... lease:

 

[nikb]

Can we discuss typical suspects, motives, etc? We don't need specific names, just general suspects.

Suspects? Pedophile, human trafficking, family, bullies, What else? I'll assume based on their ages they weren't taken to be raised as their own.

Motives? Sex, money, silence, hatred, what else?

Please add to the list, I just think we could look at things from a different perspective and possibly do some good in helping bring these girls home. We've discussed the bikes, video, paddle boat, and mini-maxi dresses to death.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, one more possible motive: protection of one or both of the girls for whatever reason.

It's the motive I think is least likely but the one I hope for the most.