IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[otto]

How can you exclude the sighting...he's the only one that has put himself there, then, including stating that he saw bikes in the path that he had to swerve around. It matters. It doesn't mean he's the perp, it means something happened. There is the possibility that the bikes he saw were perps' bikes and that he rode by right before the girls got there. (not my theory..but it is possible). We can't pretend he doesn't exist...oh wait..LE said...

The cyclist is the only witness that posted info on social media so we know about him, but police have not confirmed his tip. Police have confirmed that someone that regularly runs the trail saw the bikes.

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Sunlight]

The cyclist is the only witness that posted info on social media so we know about him, but police have not confirmed his tip. Police have confirmed that someone that regularly runs the trail saw the bikes.

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

I don't know...sounds like misinformation to me. I think it might be another "version" of the cyclist. Maybe he wasn't on his bike that Friday. He was on his bike though the day he was photographed and in the article. Another thought..maybe they are referring to the guy that TB says she spoke with. Maybe that is the same person..or maybe not. There's no info either way on any of these 3 versions of someone who went around the lake. MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

TB says Heather "called the police at 2 p.m. by 3 p.m. Evansdale police were there"

Now...what time did she speak with that guy, who she says said he saw them going east at 2:30.? What time did TB get there? How could he have seen them at 2:30 and be talking to her after 2:30...I'm confused.

Oh, and I see that DM didn't get there till 5 p.m.

I was under the impression that Heather made a personal report at the station at 2:45. MOO

Aunt TB often has her own personal take on what happened. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think she merely assumed Heather made a phone call rather than going to the PD in person.

DM doesn't have a driver's license or a vehicle, so he probably had to call around to find transportation. Plus, he may not have been the first, second or tenth person the various family members called.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If the JVM reporter is to be believed, the bikes were laid neatly, and more importantly so was the purse.

This would tie in with Abben's apparent suspicion of staging.

KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

:moo:

 

[Thinkzerz]

I thought TG rode to the Casey's gas station to use the restroom.

Even if he didn't, he still had to ride from wherever he saw the bikes on the trail to whichever restroom facility he used, use it and then call his daughter. I just don't think he could do that in less than 3 minutes.

I just can't make it work on a timeline that shows the girls at 12:19 pm unless TG's cell phone is way off on time. Just not enough time.

I definitely agree that the girls were gone by 1:30 pm.

If this is true. What time was the guy in the white van there? The guy that police wanted to talk to. Hmmm were they looking for information on TG maybe?

 

[nikb]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

I found a few more interesting things from this interview. Again BBM. Please note that these are not in order, just quotes that jumped out at me. If you want to see the whole thing you can go to the link above.

- TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: <snipped> There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

So when I told you a man said that he had seen them going east on the bike trial(sic), whether that was true or not, yes, they have his name, they know who he is. But it appears what he said was true because like I said the lake wraps around and the bikes were found on the south side. And that`s where the girls --

- KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: <snipped>We`ve also learned as of right now police haven`t found any signs of struggle. They found nothing to indicate a struggle. So the question remains, did they leave with somebody that they know, or were they abducted by a stranger, perhaps by a registered sex offender, or did they go swimming in this waterway?

- KLAAS: <snipped> They possibly wandered off some place -- it`s a pretty remote area and are unable to get back, or that there was some kind of a snatch and grab. That would have been a highly difficult maneuver to pull off on two children that know how to respond to somebody trying to take them, unless, of course, they knew the individual who did it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Aunt TB often has her own personal take on what happened. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think she merely assumed Heather made a phone call rather than going to the PD in person.

DM doesn't have a driver's license or a vehicle, so he probably had to call around to find transportation. Plus, he may not have been the first, second or tenth person the various family members called.

Heather did go to the police, per Misty -

GRACE: Misty, that day when she goes missing, let`s take it from the top. What happened, starting in the morning?

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I left for work. At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them. They`d been on a bike ride, and you know, to come directly to Heather`s home. I only work just up the street. I came directly there.

My mom had been driving around looking for them. We stood in the yard and talked for a few minutes. Heather pulled up, had not been able to find them. It was about 2:20, 2:30 PM. And so Heather said, I`m going to the police station. And that`s when she went to the Evansdale PD to involve them.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[Sunlight]

If the JVM reporter is to be believed, the bikes were laid neatly, and more importantly so was the purse.

This would tie in with Abben's apparent suspicion of staging.

KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

:moo:[/QUOTE

BBM...the bikes were "laying" not standing...?

 

[Marilynilpa]

If this is true. What time was the guy in the white van there? The guy that police wanted to talk to. Hmmm were they looking for information on TG maybe?

I doubt they were wanting info on TG, since the guy at Casey's was there at 2:00 p.m. IIRC. i don't see any connection.

 

[otto]

That's not how I read it.

I read it that Mr P believes the FBI is working with an 8 minute time frame.

It may be semantics...but Mr P does seem to be discussing how far the girls could've gotten in 8 minutes, rather than the difference in clocks, when he says this -

“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”

As you stated, this was after a day and a half with the FBI. If Mr P thinks an eight minute travel time is being tossed around by the FBI, for whatever reason, I believe him.

:moo:

"However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone.

About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

 

[Sunlight]

What is post-abduction behavior?

 

[otto]

I don't know...sounds like misinformation to me. I think it might be another "version" of the cyclist. Maybe he wasn't on his bike that Friday. He was on his bike though the day he was photographed and in the article. Another thought..maybe they are referring to the guy that TB says she spoke with. Maybe that is the same person..or maybe not. There's no info either way on any of these 3 versions of someone who went around the lake. MOO

Maybe there was someone that runs the trail daily, maybe we can try to fit the police information around the cyclist's tip, the cyclist was definitely on his bike that Friday because he couldn't have swerved while walking ... either way ... according to the FBI there was a confirmed sighting of the bikes with a specific time by someone that regularly runs the trail.

 

[otto]

If this is true. What time was the guy in the white van there? The guy that police wanted to talk to. Hmmm were they looking for information on TG maybe?

He was at the gas station at 2 PM.

 

[SapphireSteel]

"However, Pahl said the camera&#8217;s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone.

About 4 p.m. the youngsters&#8217; bikes and Collins&#8217; purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids&#8217; bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

&#8220;It&#8217;s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,&#8221; Pahl said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.&#8221;

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

Like I said, semantics.

Even if Mr P knows his clock is fast/slow, why would he state that the girls biked somewhere in 8 minutes?

The 8 minutes is a coincidence...it happens to be the difference between the cctv and his cell phone, and it ALSO happens to be the MINIMUM difference between the time the FBI have worked out the girls were last seen, per TG's sighting of the bikes.

I am ignoring the time differences in clocks/working it out for myself for the following reasons -

I think the FBI are smart enough to synchronise their watches...and every one elses.

and

I think Mr P thinks the FBI thinks the girls got there in 8 minutes.

Of course, opinion only.

To NOT believe this is what he's talking about, is to assume TG is being untruthful about seeing the bikes at all that day....something Mr P clearly does NOT think as he refers to TG's sighting himself.

:moo:

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe there was someone that runs the trail daily, maybe we can try to fit the police information around the cyclist's tip, the cyclist was definitely on his bike that Friday because he couldn't have swerved while walking ... either way ... according to the FBI there was a confirmed sighting of the bikes with a specific time by someone that regularly runs the trail.

True. The cyclist did say he swerved. As for "definitely"...I dunno about that. He was definitely on his bike in the pictures and when he said that, but that was on a different day.

 

[nikb]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

Yep I'm quoting myself again. BBM.

- TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: <snipped> There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

I have already wondered what's a "little boy" to Aunt T. and what's a "long time" to the little boy. Now I also wonder, did the boy maybe see them but not think it was two little girls? Elizabeth's still fairly little but Lyric is on that cusp between "little girl" and "young lady" (as my grandma used to say). From a distance and if she's on a mountain bike, it might be hard to tell. Or, was he maybe picturing two girls on one bike? One on the handlebars or something? It could be just semantics or nerves during an interview but "two girls on a bicycle" sounds way different to me than "two girls on bicycles."

I know... I'm overthinking this like crazy.

 

[hollyblue]

I haven't read anything attaching a time to the "runner", but some people here have posted a time of 2 or 2:30. I haven't seen a link.

Maybe the runner and the man TB spoke to with a possible sighting at 2:30 are one and the same. ?

 

[SapphireSteel]

It boils down to this - either you think TG is being untruthful OR

You believe that he saw them AROUND 12.20, like he said.

As he has no reason to lie that I can see, I'm assuming he didn't...he saw the bikes.

 

[nikb]

BBM...the bikes were "laying" not standing...?

That's confused me from the beginning too. My thought is IF the bikes were not moved, maybe "laying" meant one bike was against the fence and the other was leaned up next to it. Or, one was on its kickstand, the other was against it, and they fell over next to the fence. Either way it'd cause them to take up a fair amount of room on the path.

 

[Sunlight]

It boils down to this - either you think TG is being untruthful OR

You believe that he saw them AROUND 12.20, like he said.

As he has no reason to lie that I can see, I'm assuming he didn't...he saw the bikes.

I know that I don't believe that TG is untruthful or truthful. I really think only time will tell, and he is an important voice in this situation. I won't blindly rule him out or in. MOO