IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[cindersoot]

I don't think it's too far from reality that if you "snitch" that revenge may come your way. If he sold out his pals, I'd think shooting him would be much more likely than kidnapping his child & niece whom he didn't live with. Not that he deserves/needs to be shot, no one is saying that, it's just the more popular method of revenge.

Okay, maybe I just misunderstood. No, I misunderstood.

 

[rjjensen]

I'm just wondering how anyone can say that they are not going in the direction of the lake when the lake is South of the house and they have to first go either East or West for half a block before they go South. They went West, but that doesn't mean that they didn't then turn South. The same would be true if the first went East.

either they were going closer to the lake or not...in this case not

 

[CoeTrawk]

I didn't see one in pic 3, but there's definitely one in pic 4. I'll bet he's been sitting there for a month waiting for one of us to spot him! :crazy:

Oops, yea, meant 4. He probably has!

 

[Confusion]

either they were going closer to the lake or not...in this case not

I've wondered if the original statement was "They were not heading toward the lake" because they were going on an east-west road rather than a north-south one. It could be that the reporter (or the LE spokesman, can't think of his name) switched it from not heading toward to heading away from, which aren't necessarily the same thing. It seems like most MSM sources just write pretty much the same thing.

 

[roseofsharon]

My first set of woods pics are up now, back on page six. Here's my last set.

Pic 1 just show how much denser the woods are on Maiden Lane as opposed to the rest of the woods. There is a curve in the Lane that would allow a vehicle to sit back there, unseen from Arbutus or anywhere else. It's definitely a bumpy ride, but its obviously driveable. Because of the fence, Maiden Lane is a one-way proposition. You drive in and back out, or back in and drive out. If anyone else came along, you're stuck. If Maiden Lane was used, I'd guess the perp(s) backed in there and drove out, especially given that they had to back around a curve to get to the most hidden part.

If there was a vehicle going around back there, I can't believe no one heard it. Maybe someone did, but didn't think it was in the woods, or thought it was a legitimate parks department operation. Surely the engine and twigs snapping would be fairly loud.

Pic 2 scares the scheiss out of me. This is a little footpath that leads from Maiden Lane to a little "beach." (Again, the sandy parts were underwater then, but the grass next to it was the shore then. Look how low the grass is. Usualble as a beach IMO.) And this beach is a stone's throw away from the maintence gate and jetty, or alternately the water-access point at the end of the fence. A hypothetical boat ride could have lasted just one minute before the girls were bundled into a hypothetical vehicle on Maiden Lane.

Pic 3 shows the hole in the fence below the interstate, and Pic 4 is taken from the same spot, just to show where it is in relation to the double fence section. I don't think the interstate had anything to do with the abduction, but wanted to document the location of the fence's hole just for the sake of it. By the way, is that a freakin' white van in pic 4????

A note regarding the interstate noise: at midday there is not a huge amount of traffic. There are definitely quiet times where there is no noise. I don't believe the interstate would preclude someone from hearing a scream or anything like that.

Pic 5 is taken from the trail as it goes north/south on the west side of the lake. I don't think it means anything, but there's a path from the trail to the houses that are over there. Probably nothing, but just wanted to document another way onto the trail, just in case.

PIC 5 - :what: ......... and thank you for posting these pictures!!

 

[hollyblue]

ITA, Ocean, last night on my scanner a local called dispatch to report an approx. 13 yo female crying at a 7-11. The man she was with had her go in the men's bathroom with him. They got into a vehicle headed 95S, she had followed to that point. Two officers started for the 7-11 and a supervisor had the dispatch call State Police to have them do a welfare check at the address on the licenses plates.

Soooo, why couldn't State Police just stop the vehicle on 95, what if she was a runaway or abducted from our county? The man could have passed her off to someone before he got to his home. On the other hand, he could be the father and the 13 yo was just picked up by him from being a runaway,or whatever, who knows?

Still, it wouldn't have hurt to verify, so how many eyewitnesses could there have been for any of these abductions and the ball was dropped? There's too many abductions of all ages and there needs to be a quicker response for suspicious sightings. By the time they go look at video, the suspect and victim could be miles away. I was so ticked off, can you tell?

Winterrose, keep us updated on this if you can. TIA Have you heard anything thru the media?

 

[CoeTrawk]

Thank you so much for the pictures! Great job! Is that the entry to the bike trail? I think Meyers Lake was very quiet the day girls disappeared. The perp realized it too and took full advantage of the lack of activity... except for the girls. It gave me a cold chill and a pause the other day when you stated that date as Friday the 13th. Thanks again for posting!

That's the entry, yes. Though if the girls were truly seen on Lake Ave, they wouldn't have gone in this way.

 

[mountainguy777]

my gut instinct from the start here is there was a terrible accudent. drowning, fell into a holed in the woods, maybe got stuck in the trunk of vacant car. i dunno why, but i dont feel like it was a kidnapping. no facts here.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I haven't heard this before. It may be a big deal or it may mean absolutely nothing.

Were they situated this way when they were found by searchers?

This has been discussed often and IIRC, TG said he swerved to miss the bikes laying on the trail. I'll find the link and post it unless someone beats me to it!

We have had numerous back-and-forths on various threads about where the bikes were situated when they were found by the searcher (firefighter). They were not in the trail when Abben arrived, but I don't think it has been definitely stated where the bikes were when the firefighter found them. If I'm wrong, which is likely, I'm sure someone here will correct me.

 

[Thespyma]

The scenario of random sexual predatory stranger taking two girls who were at the wrong place/wrong time has one huge flaw...the FBI's statement that they had evidence the girls are alive. This to me indicates it is either someone known or a ring (most likely sexual) and I believe the girls could be way out of the area and that is why local media is silent for now. Or they could be in the area. I am not sure where they could be locally as I am not able to come and look for myself but it would need to be well sealed if the girls are no longer "with us". Sad to admit but I know that one of a kind smell...nothing comes close to it. I want to believe they are alive, like the FBI spokesperson stated...but time is passing so fast. All my Opinion Only...

 

[iamnotagolem]

my gut instinct from the start here is there was a terrible accudent. drowning, fell into a holed in the woods, maybe got stuck in the trunk of vacant car. i dunno why, but i dont feel like it was a kidnapping. no facts here.

I've recently started wondering if that is the case myself. I really wonder how well the area has been searched.

I've also contemplated that the girls saw the family searching for them and hid because they didn't want to get in trouble, then got stuck somehow.

I really am open to any theory at this point.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm just wondering how anyone can say that they are not going in the direction of the lake when the lake is South of the house and they have to first go either East or West for half a block before they go South. They went West, but that doesn't mean that they didn't then turn South. The same would be true if the first went East.

Apparently not everyone screams.

Carlie Brucia Abduction - YouTube

You are so right. While we are the subject of Carlie Brucia, her murderer was high on cocaine at the time he raped and murdered her.

Jessica Lunsford's murderer, John Cooey was a habitual crack-cocaine abuser.

Jaycee Dugard's captor, Phillip Garrido, would use crystal meth and abuse her for long periods of time under the effects of this drug.

Dennis Dechaine abducted Sarah Cherry on her way home from her first babysitting job. He had injected himself amphetamines prior to her abduction, rape and murder. Creep is trying to get a new trial.

Scary people out there.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Pic 5 is taken from the trail as it goes north/south on the west side of the lake. I don't think it means anything, but there's a path from the trail to the houses that are over there. Probably nothing, but just wanted to document another way onto the trail, just in case.

There is a warehouse at 202 W. Gilbert Dr. that borders the trail where it leads out to Gilbert. Looking it up, I get the impression it might be empty? Any locals there know? It's very close to your pic 5, and if empty, is rather isolated. Just kind of gave me goosebumps...

 

[hollyblue]

I had an old family friend who was a holocaust survivor. She recounted that many children were accidentally suffocated when parents attempted to keep them from screaming when in hiding. Children do not usually keep silent, especially young ones. I think a teen might be able to quickly rationalize that they need to be quiet but a young child and 8 and 10 are young would instinctively make noise. If not scream (which I know I would have) then at least cry. It just does not make sense that a stranger took them in such a public place and no one heard anything. The video of the attempted kidnapping of the girl who was with her brother showed her kicking and screaming and baby brother screaming. All young animals, including humans instinctively scream when grabbed. This leads me to my thought that they either knew who took them or were befriended by them. It must have been someone who appeared non-threatening to them, IMO.

I could see two people, maybe a couple, standing in the gated area and knowing the gate is unlocked. They lure the girls over to them at the gate to see "something". Bam. They are both grabbed from the bikes and at the same time told not to scream or they would be hurt...possibly with a weapon of some kind. I don't think the girls would have scream after that threat...and already being in the perps grasps. They were then coerced back east either by the trail or the shore...and purse being thrown into the area it was found or it became entangled or dropped when being hurried thru the gate and onto the shoreline. JMO, but I would think there would be difference in being just nabbed and forced (I could see screaming by them) and the look on the monster's face and his terrifying eyes when threatening. A stern look from an authoritative figure to a child makes them pay attention......and I'd imagine if they used words of threat....in a horrid tone through fierce eyes, they would abide. Just my O, and I could be totally wrong. I felt that when typing and just shivered at the thought. Can you imagine being a kid and have wholly terror jerk you off your bike by the back of your neck? Oh, lord.

 

[Marilynilpa]

He/they followed them. Just moo

Okay, I guess I confused myself when I read your post. For some reason I thought you meant this guy saw the girls, raced ahead of them to some spot, and abducted them. That's why I couldn't figure out how he would have known where to wait on them.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Thespyma]

This is way out there, and it is the reason why I have so far excluded DM's legal troubles as a possible motive for the kidnapping. But from the beginning when there was enough info was out to put legal problems + meth + kidnapping children together immediately brings Mexican drug traffickers to mind as the violence in Mexico is starting to spill over in the States.

That is exactly what I tried to say in my first post way back when the LE was working on getting the lake drained. The proximity to highways which lead to I-35 which is...a direct route to Mexico where children are taken and sold into prostitution for lots of money. I am not saying this IS what happened, just that with several days of LE watching the lake they'd have been in Mexico before anyone started looking for them. The central north-south drug corrider runs right through Iowa and small towns would be easy pickings due to the "safe place to live" mentality of many small town residents. Just My Opinion

 

[gregjrichards]

Elizabeth and Lyric's case reminds me so much of the Lyon sisters' case (except of course, that Elizabeth and Lyric are cousins, not sisters).
Sometimes 2 girls are abducted together. I hope I am wrong, but I think the girls in both cases were taken by a sick sexual predator (obviously I'm not saying it's the same person in both cases, but the same type of person) who took both at the same time. Probably convinced them to go with him (at least at first).

Sheila and Katherine Lyon - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I too think about the Lyon case and I hope with all my heart we are not still wondering about Elizabeth and Lyric's disappearance in 37 years time also. It is nearly a month now and there are too many questions and no answers.

It would be very interesting to know what the FBI profilers think in this case.

I absolutely respect and believe the family are victims but the tragic case of Tia Sharp has caused major upset in the public here in the UK and serious questions are being asked why Tia wasn't found sooner.

I respectfully ask this question are the homes and yards of family members homes still being routinely searched and have the partners or people in the girls life's been thoroughly checked out? I know we cannot sleuth the family here because they are victims but I wondered if law enforcement was still doing it.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Maybe, but maybe not. If the bikes he saw didn't belong to the girls, they could have been gone before the girls got close to there. Without TG's sighting, all we know is it was sometime after 12:15 (or whatever the true time of the video was.) and most likely before the family got to the lake looking for them.

If the bikes TG saw were not the girls then the girls had hours to go all over town before their bikes were discovered, right? They were seen at 12:15ish on CCTV. They very well could have ridden their bikes north after that and not ridden their bikes to the lake until way later. Or a perp could have dumped the bikes.

 

[hollyblue]

Apparently not everyone screams.

Carlie Brucia Abduction - YouTube

I know nothing about Carlie's case. Did the perp have a knife or weapon and threaten her, because it looks like he squared her up directly after approaching and retrived something from his pocket? Makes me think he showed her a knife, gun or something. Thanks.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanks for doing this! I think it has to be 1. That is the only truly blind curve. Which means the bikes were moved, either by the girls or the perp, after TG saw them.

I vote for curve 1 too.