IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[Jules71]

Let's think this through. The house is empty and it is for sale. That would mean that there's a lock box at the house and that anyone could enter the home at any time without notice. How likely is it that someone related to the owner is going to take two children to an empty house that anyone can enter and offer them anything.

Maybe they just used it to park in the driveway or garage and for easy access.

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[Sere-nity]

Thanks for doing this. I think it will help a lot. Dan said he was told the bikes were facing west. So if the man Tammy talked to said the girls were riding west from the parking lot then they would have had to turn around down by the grassy area or somewhere past where the bikes were found to be facing west when they got off their bikes. Unless the bikes were staged facing that direction for a reason.

But if they had come down Lake Ave past Mr. C's house then that would make sense for their bikes to be facing west. And so then the 2:30 witness was wrong or doesn't exist. See the thing is it would not be logical to be heading east on bikes from the parking lot because the trail is not there.

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What if we assume they weren't at the parking lot, but at the grassy area. Then Random man would have been right about the direction, and the bikes would be facing west.

If it were a stranger to Tammy, the man could have given any name and any number. She wouldn't know if the name or number is accurate because she stated he was a random stranger. Right?

 

[Jules71]

True, but guess it could happen, since the complete official timeline is being held under wraps. Maybe the two athletes crossed each other's path as they were coming and going? Lol Hmmm :waitasec:

Or they are the same person or neither one exists! Lol.

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[Confusion]

What if we assume they weren't at the parking lot, but at the grassy area. Then Random man would have been right about the direction, and the bikes would be facing west.

If it were a stranger to Tammy, the man could have given any name and any number. She wouldn't know if the name or number is accurate because she stated he was a random stranger. Right?

The only problem I see with that is that she said she was asking random people if they'd seen the girls, but from what everybody has said, there aren't usually people around that area to ask. I think she'd have been lucky to find one person by the grassy area to ask (unless I'm thinking of the wrong area).

 

[Pacific2011]

Is there anything particular that makes you think Tammy doesn't know the person at the lake? tia

My opinion is: Since Tammy is the only person who has ever mentioned this person at the lake and since LE has never included this person in their timeline, I think this "conversation" should be look at thoroughly. Tammy reportedly said that the cops "have his name," but since there has been no further information about him, AFAIK, I have been wondering from the beginning why Aunt Tammy didn't get his name. . . .which makes me wonder if she made him up. JMO. MOO.

 

[RNER]

True, but guess it could happen, since the complete official timeline is being held under wraps. Maybe the two athletes crossed each other's path as they were coming and going? Lol Hmmm :waitasec:

...and maybe the fishing boy was actually fishing from a paddle boat! LOL

 

[CHERIE.T]

Thanks for doing this. I think it will help a lot. Dan said he was told the bikes were facing west. So if the man Tammy talked to said the girls were riding west from the parking lot then they would have had to turn around down by the grassy area or somewhere past where the bikes were found to be facing west when they got off their bikes. Unless the bikes were staged facing that direction for a reason.

But if they had come down Lake Ave past Mr. C's house then that would make sense for their bikes to be facing west. And so then the 2:30 witness was wrong or doesn't exist. See the thing is it would not be logical to be heading east on bikes from the parking lot because the trail is not there.

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I don't think there was a
2:30 sighting.

 

[Considering]

Who said that LE "swarmed" Meyers Lake? The only person that I remember using that word was Tammy -- the same Tammy that had some outrageous measurement for the wooded area, I believe. I think she has good intentions, but is prone to exaggeration.

 

[Sere-nity]

The only problem I see with that is that she said she was asking random people if they'd seen the girls, but from what everybody has said, there aren't usually people around that area to ask. I think she'd have been lucky to find one person by the grassy area to ask (unless I'm thinking of the wrong area).

There is a patch of grass on Arbutus between the property with the garage and the woods.

 

[nikb]

That area where you could get in the back way Misty talked about, would have been the perfect place to get the girls back into and take them without being seen. With so much drug activity around the girls, could someone have had them meet a person and they didn't know what they were picking up, but it went horribly wrong? Maybe the purse was for another reason, they were told to take it by someone. <snipped for space, BBM>

I'm catching up so sorry if this is a repeat.

I've always gotten the impression there wasn't much if any drug activity around the girls. G'ma seems to have Lyric the majority of the time. I've never heard any drug references for HC and DC so I don't think Elizabeth would've been exposed to it much. Other than what they just encounter being out and about, but I don't think they were hanging around watching drug deals or something.

 

[Jules71]

What if we assume they weren't at the parking lot, but at the grassy area. Then Random man would have been right about the direction, and the bikes would be facing west.

If it were a stranger to Tammy, the man could have given any name and any number. She wouldn't know if the name or number is accurate because she stated he was a random stranger. Right?

Yes she did state he was a "random stranger". I don't think she said he gave her his name and # but she said in an interview that LE has his contact info. But it was weird at the time because she sounded like she was either suspicious of him herself or trying to cast suspicion on him.

The direction stuff would make sense if they were at the grassy area but then I REALLY have to wonder why they didn't find the bikes and/or why it took so long for LE to find them. They would have been so close. But I could see being suspicious of someone she may have come across back there.

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[CHERIE.T]

My opinion is: Since Tammy is the only person who has ever mentioned this person at the lake and since LE has never included this person in their timeline, I think this "conversation" should be look at thoroughly. Tammy reportedly said that the cops "have his name," but since there has been no further information about him, AFAIK, I have been wondering from the beginning why Aunt Tammy didn't get his name. . . .which makes me wonder if she made him up. JMO. MOO.

I'm wondering the same thing too.

 

[Sere-nity]

My opinion is: Since Tammy is the only person who has ever mentioned this person at the lake and since LE has never included this person in their timeline, I think this "conversation" should be look at thoroughly. Tammy reportedly said that the cops "have his name," but since there has been no further information about him, AFAIK, I have been wondering from the beginning why Aunt Tammy didn't get his name. . . .which makes me wonder if she made him up. JMO. MOO.

If Tammy didn't get his name then how did the police get his name?

 

[RNER]

What if we assume they weren't at the parking lot, but at the grassy area. Then Random man would have been right about the direction, and the bikes would be facing west.

If it were a stranger to Tammy, the man could have given any name and any number. She wouldn't know if the name or number is accurate because she stated he was a random stranger. Right?

But remember she said, "the Police have his name and number". I am sorry, but if he said he saw my child ( and he would have been the last one to have seen her), his *advertiser censored* wouldn't have been leaving until the police arrived or I would have followed him while the rest of my family looked for the girls!!!!!

 

[Pacific2011]

If Tammy didn't get his name then how did the police get his name?

Good Question! I happen not to believe either statement of Aunt Tammy's, neither that she saw him and talked to him, nor that police have his name. JMO. MOO.

 

[CHERIE.T]

My opinion is: Since Tammy is the only person who has ever mentioned this person at the lake and since LE has never included this person in their timeline, I think this "conversation" should be look at thoroughly. Tammy reportedly said that the cops "have his name," but since there has been no further information about him, AFAIK, I have been wondering from the beginning why Aunt Tammy didn't get his name. . . .which makes me wonder if she made him up. JMO. MOO.

I'm wondering the same thing too.

 

[otto]

It wouldn't have to be an empty house, one or more of them could live on or very close to the lake.

Why would a kidnapper take children to a house that is for sale? I simply don't understand this. Houses that are for sale can be accessed by the owner and realtors without notice ... it just doesn't seem like a place to take kidnapped children because of the high risk of being discovered.

By the way ... when Victoria Stafford was missing, people also speculated that she was taken to an empty house. It was the wrong thinking in that case.

 

[LaylaD]

And when did he do this? I have been confused on when he told anyone. Was it Saturday or Monday? Did he tell his daughter about just missing the bikes when he called her on the phone on Friday at 12:27 or was this a subsequent conversation they were having? Not sleuthing TG, just trying to understand the timing, so if anyone has anything that would help me from be confused, that would be great.

Good questions (again) MNDad. I don't believe we know the answers to any of them, unfortunately. There is so much in this case I have questions about with no clear answers.

 

[Jules71]

But remember she said, "the Police have his name and number". I am sorry, but if he said he saw my child ( and he would have been the last one to have seen her), his *advertiser censored* wouldn't have been leaving until the police arrived or I would have followed him while the rest of my family looked for the girls!!!!!

So if she asked have you seen two little girls on bikes and he says yep about 15 minutes ago heading west - wouldn't she then think oh thank God they are here. He then goes in his way. 15 minutes later LE arrives. Maybe he was still there and LE talked to him. They didn't share it with the public then.

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[rjjensen]

that could also explain how they rode to the lake so quickly.

the trail would be a longer distance to travel