IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #2

[liz b.]

Sorry to double post... But :

If the girls were really seen riding their bikes by that guy at 2 :30 p.m., then wouldn't that mean that they hadn't gone swimming at that point ? So, what could they have been doing for those hours since they left the house at 11 :30 a.m. ? If it only takes about 8 minutes to bike there ? What is there for kids to do at that lake ?

How likely is it that they went someplace else before 2 :30.p.m. ? I know I read that LE said that no one else had seen the girls. Not biking around town,or,presumably in any stores... Wonder if they were in someones house ?

I think I have a problem with the story of this guy seeing them at 2 :30p.m. on their bikes...somethings up here...MOO

 

[katydid23]

Sorry to double post... But :

If the girls were really seen riding their bikes by that guy at 2 :30 p.m., then wouldn't that mean that they hadn't gone swimming at that point ? So, what could they have been doing for those hours since they left the house at 11 :30 a.m. ? If it only takes about 8 minutes to bike there ? What is there for kids to do at that lake ?

How likely is it that they went someplace else before 2 :30.p.m. ? I know I read that LE said that no one else had seen the girls. Not biking around town,or,presumably in any stores... Wonder if they were in someones house ?

I think I have a problem with the story of this guy seeing them at 2 :30p.m. on their bikes...somethings up here...MOO

The problem I have is with the two stories both being true:

One, that the bikes were laying across the pathway at 12:30 ish.
Two, that the girls were seen riding around the lake at 2:30.


How can both of these be true? Did the girls jump off the bikes and do something else for 2 hours, and then go riding, and THEN they went missing?

I am not sure about the guy who says the girls were there at 2:30. Maybe it was some other girls.

 

[liz b.]

The Waterloo Courier is reporting the name of the man who had to swerve around the girl's bikes--

As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often.

“I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.


Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...d32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz20r7uwdxG

According to this witness, the bikes were on the path. However, I thought I read something that the bikes were found neatly placed in what I assumed was the grass on the sides of the bike path... if that's the case, were the bikes moved between the time the witness swerved to miss them and the time that the police found them? If so... wonder if there was another other evidence that was inadvertently moved???

The bikes could have been moved. But, this is very interesting... where were the two girls at this time ? Because,according to family members,they spoke to a man who said he saw the girls,riding their bikes at 2:30 p.m. ? I am glad the bike rider is now a MSM witness... This story is not becoming more clear as time passes.... MOO

 

[liz b.]

The problem I have is with the two stories both being true:

One, that the bikes were laying across the pathway at 12:30 ish.
Two, that the girls were seen riding around the lake at 2:30.


How can both of these be true? Did the girls jump off the bikes and do something else for 2 hours, and then go riding, and THEN they went missing?

I am not sure about the guy who says the girls were there at 2:30. Maybe it was some other girls.

And yet the girls family members believed him. Apparently. And,AFAIK, no other girls were seen by anyone else out at the lake ?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I find it hard to believe that the girls were taken against their will from the spot where the bikes were found. It seems too risky a spot to plan an abduction - parking on the highway would be noticed immediately, the trail itself is apparently used quite a bit - maybe you can drag two girls off without being seen but why risk it when there are undoubtedly other spots where you are less likely to be seen?

The same holds true of ditching the bikes there after abducting the girls elsewhere.

The most likely scenario that I can envision is that they drowned. They rode their bikes out to the lake, it was hot, and they wanted to cool off. Perhaps they chose the secluded spot because they knew there was no swimming in the lake, and they didn't want to be seen? They laid the bikes down or perhaps leaned them against the fence and walked around the end of the fence to the water. The purse is set where it (and the phone) won't get wet. Maybe they initially only planned to splash some water on themselves or wade a little.

They go in a little deeper than they intended - maybe one gets the idea of walking out to the rocks. If the lake bottom is muddy flip-flops or even shoes could easily get stuck in the mud. I'm under the impression that this area is where the culverts (?) are that connect to the river? If so, that could create currents - they might not be strong now, but they could be during seasonal melt-off or storms - that could cause the lake bed to drop off abruptly and unexpectedly. One step the water is knee-deep, the next over a child's head.

Reportedly both girls could swim, but were they strong swimmers? Swimming in a controlled area while wearing bathing suits is different than suddenly ending up over your head while wearing clothes and shoes - and maybe getting a mouth full of water. One girl tries to help the other, and.....

If the lake isn't used for swimming, there's probably a reason for it.

Daniel Morcombe, down here in Australia, was kidnapped from a bus stop on a busy highway in the middle of the day.

The first bus was running late so drove straight past him. The second bus came along about 2 minutes later and he was gone.

 

[debirlfan]

I am not sure about the guy who says the girls were there at 2:30. Maybe it was some other girls.

When the relatives went to the lake to look for the girls, I'm going to guess that they went to the other side of the lake where there are more people. (If they'd been in the secluded area, they would have found the bikes themselves.) I'm going to assume the guy they talked to did see two girls, just not the right ones.

If the girls pedaled directly to the lake, they would have been hot when they got there. That's likely when they went into the water. Chances are the guy who evaded their bikes only missed seeing them by minutes.

 

[SapphireSteel]

When the relatives went to the lake to look for the girls, I'm going to guess that they went to the other side of the lake where there are more people. (If they'd been in the secluded area, they would have found the bikes themselves.) I'm going to assume the guy they talked to did see two girls, just not the right ones.

If the girls pedaled directly to the lake, they would have been hot when they got there. That's likely when they went into the water. Chances are the guy who evaded their bikes only missed seeing them by minutes.

Have I missed something? Have they been found in the lake?

 

[debirlfan]

Daniel Morcombe, down here in Australia, was kidnapped from a bus stop on a busy highway in the middle of the day.

The first bus was running late so drove straight past him. The second bus came along about 2 minutes later and he was gone.

A car pulling up at a bus stop wouldn't be a notable sight. Call the individual over to the car to get directions and point a gun at them - or have an accomplice drag them into the car.... It's over in seconds.

It doesn't appear in this case that there's anywhere close to park a vehicle without it sticking out like a sore thumb. That leaves a perp with two kids that he has to get to a car/house/boat. The kids may be sufficiently scared to do what he says, but what if someone else comes along? What if the kids start screaming?

 

[katydid23]

And yet the girls family members believed him. Apparently. And,AFAIK, no other girls were seen by anyone else out at the lake ?

I just watched that part of JVM on you-tube again. The aunt seemed to have mixed feelings about whether she believed him or not. She said a man came up and said he did see two girls riding their bikes on the path, but she added " "I am not sure if he is a person of interest or not, but the cops have his name.." So she believed him, unless he was maybe the perp himself. lol

 

[debirlfan]

Have I missed something? Have they been found in the lake?

Speculation on my part - I posted about a page back that I suspect they drowned.

 

[butterfly1978]

LE basically saying they are going to wait and see how this unfolds leads me to think they are giving someone rope to hang themselves, Just sayin

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ted Gamerbinger says he had to swerve past the bikes at 12.20.

The girls were last seen by grandma riding down her street at 12.15.

That just doesn't add up.

Either Mr Gamerbinger has his times wrong, or grandma does...or one of the two knows more than they are saying.

 

[SapphireSteel]

]

A car pulling up at a bus stop wouldn't be a notable sight.[/B] Call the individual over to the car to get directions and point a gun at them - or have an accomplice drag them into the car.... It's over in seconds.

It doesn't appear in this case that there's anywhere close to park a vehicle without it sticking out like a sore thumb. That leaves a perp with two kids that he has to get to a car/house/boat. The kids may be sufficiently scared to do what he says, but what if someone else comes along? What if the kids start screaming?

It was noted, by the first bus driver and another passerby. They could even identify the make and colour of the abductor's car.

We still don't know what other witnesses have contacted LE, nor if there is someone out there who saw an abduction and still isn't aware the girls are what they saw. This is the sort of information which will likely be suppressed in an investigation, in case it makes an abductor anxious and spurs him or her to kill his victims.

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

Ted Gamerbinger says he had to swerve past the bikes at 12.20.

The girls were last seen by grandma riding down her street at 12.15.

That just doesn't add up.

Either Mr Gamerbinger has his times wrong, or grandma does...or one of the two knows more than they are saying.

And another witness says he saw the girls riding their bikes on the path at 2;30 ish. So all of the above cannot be true, imo.

I don't think their bikes were laying on the path at 12:30 and then they were riding them at 2:30, and then LE was looking for them and found the bikes again at 4:00.

 

[nskapbt]

I am not sure if I am allowed to post this, but I am a part of a private FB group (nothing remotely related to this case or sleuthing...it's a doll makers group) and one of the members has or is going down with her cadaver dogs (I am unclear which it was, that she has already been or was going after making the post about it).

She said that it was an emergency situation.

 

[cluciano63]

Didn't a local poster say earlier that no one swims in this lake?

 

[Jules71]

I am not sure if I am allowed to post this, but I am a part of a private FB group (nothing remotely related to this case or sleuthing...it's a doll makers group) and one of the members has or is going down with her cadaver dogs (I am unclear which it was, that she has already been or was going after making the post about it).

She said that it was an emergency situation.

Oh wow! :what:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I hope they're checking this Gamerbinger's basement.

 

[Jules71]

Timeline:
11:30 girls were last seen by Grandma (per Aunt Tammy)
12:15 initially reported they were last seen behind Lederman's
12:27 bike sighting laying across lake path
2:00 Aunt Heather calls LE (per Aunt Tammy)
2:30 man sees girls riding east around lake path (per Aunt Tammy)
2:45 Aunt Tammy and Grandma Wylma Cook searching at lake (per Aunt Tammy)
3:00 LE swarms lake
4:00 bikes found

Initially we were told gma searched for girls from 2-3 and then called LE at 3, and they arrived around 4.

Why did the sheriff not mention the 2:30 sighting at the presser today? Why did he not mention Grandma last seeing the girls at 11:30?

Either the sighting at 12:27 is incorrect or the sighting at 2:30 is incorrect. Remember at the beginning the posters said something about last seen around 2:30 or 3 (I will go check)? I think the 2:30 sighting is bogus and someone wasn't expecting the 12:27 sighting to mess up the story. I think LE should check out the man reporting the 2:30 sighting and see if he is connected to anyone who knows friends or family of these girls.

BTW: IF LE "swarmed" the lake at 3, I do not believe it would take them an hour to find the bikes on the path!! And if Aunt and Gma were there at 2:45 they could have walked around that lake and found the bikes themselves before 4!!

And the Aunt who was not even at the lake called 911? While Aunt Tammy and Grandma were searching?

 

[mrsu]

Ted Gamerbinger says he had to swerve past the bikes at 12.20.

The girls were last seen by grandma riding down her street at 12.15.

That just doesn't add up.

Either Mr Gamerbinger has his times wrong, or grandma does...or one of the two knows more than they are saying.

Gma changed her time to 11:30. Actually, that's what the aunt said on JVM.