IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #2

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the replay of JVM is again running now on TV i guess according to a twitter poster
 
debirlfan said:
A car pulling up at a bus stop wouldn't be a notable sight. Call the individual over to the car to get directions and point a gun at them - or have an accomplice drag them into the car.... It's over in seconds.

It doesn't appear in this case that there's anywhere close to park a vehicle without it sticking out like a sore thumb. That leaves a perp with two kids that he has to get to a car/house/boat. The kids may be sufficiently scared to do what he says, but what if someone else comes along? What if the kids start screaming?
Click to expand...

The old "help me find my lost puppy" ruse has worked before in abducting a child. Any kind of ploy appealing to the girls' kind natures or curiosity would get them to a stranger's car, and from there it might not be too hard to get them in the car. But that assumes a child abductor just happened to be there the same time as the two girls without being seen by anyone else.

Even kids who know all about stranger danger can still be taken in by a stranger's appeal for help.

Unfortunately I'm thinking one of them went into the lake, fell into a hole or chasm and began floundering, the other girl went in to save her and they both wound up drowning.

Forgive me if this has been asked before - what is the lake bottom comprised of? Sand, mud, clay, etc.?
 
Last seen riding their bikes at a nearby lake at about 2 pm.

missinggirls2.jpg
 
I know a month or more ago, two teenage girls drowned in a lake; one was found, not sure if the other girl ever was, there was a thread here. It seemed very unlikely but sure enough, it happened.
 
I just wonder why the missing poster says last seen riding bikes at the lake at about 2 pm - and anyone having seen these two girls after 12:15 to call.

And now it is 11:30 (gma last saw them) and 2:30 (person at lake saw them) rather than 12:15 and 2. It bothers me that times have changed and the sheriff just today was reporting the 12:15 time.

If the Aunt and Gma went searching at the lake at 2:45 and talked to the person who said he saw them at 2:30 - why does the poster not say 2:30? They were given this information on Friday when they went missing, not after the fact. And missing posters were made up right away.
 
Trino said:
http://www.myabc5.com/story/19031602/search-to-resume-for-missing-iowa-girls-8-and-10

"Cook-Morrissey said her daughter might have tried to swim at the lake, despite a swimming ban. She said the family swims at another nearby lake regularly, and described Lyric as a good swimmer."

The lake drains into the Cedar River, according to this story. I wonder if the bodies ended up there via the drain.
Click to expand...

The sheriff said the drain pipe has screens/grates and he also said a person could not fit in there. I was listening to the presser (but not watching) and he must have held up his hand to demonstrate the diameter and then he said something about them being 3 inches apart. So I don't know if that means 3 inches in diameter or more likely several pipes 3 inches apart.
 
I had read briefly on this thread and caught the story on JVM tonight. JMO, and I hope I'm right, but I believe they still alive. My only doubt is if they were taken by young teens they ran across around the lake. Praying they are found safe.
 
It's looking fairly certain that they are not in the lake.

I read that there was a trail with a gate where the bikes were found, leading up to a pontoon. This implies to me that there is car access there. Someone could possibly have driven up this trail, away from the main road, and abducted them?

I personally feel that the bikes were not moved...the girls were abducted right there, where they fell.
 
I would like to know where the bikes actually were found. If they were in the narrow "scary" fenced stretch, it would make no sense for them to leave them there in the middle of the path and then walk down and around the fence to the lake.

That narrow spot bothers me, because they could easily be trapped there by someone. Or, trapped by two people, one on each end. The only way to try to escape would be over the fence.
 
JVM transcripts.

I heard correctly. Mom did say she was off work. Interesting that she says she was at work at the beginning and then says she was off? :waitasec:


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty, can I ask you quickly, do you -- can you update us on a description of the clothing that the children were wearing?

M. MORRISSEY: OK, I can tell you what I know. I know that it`s a little disturbing, and it`s kind of frustrating for us as a family, as well, because you don`t notice sometimes what did your kid throw on that morning and what did they take off in?

I left for work at 8:30 that morning, and so Lyric was still in her pajamas. She was in a bright green shirt. Sometimes she tends to wear that same pajama outfit, you know, with my mother over to my sister, Heather`s. I know for sure she had on her purple flip-flops. And that`s the only shoe that has -- is missing from the home. So we know that for sure. There are about...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, tell me that. What was that? What?

M. MORRISSEY: My understanding...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, tell me that. Spell it out. Describe what was missing.

M. MORRISSEY: What was missing is her purple flip-flops. They`re just maybe a Wal-Mart brand. They`re flats. They`re purple. They`re about a size 9. We believe that they have the diamonds across the top that go over the foot. They are a size 9. It`s the only shoe that`s missing for Lyric right now.

As far as clothing, I woke up and seen her in her green -- a bright green shirt. After she left, I`m not sure what she wore.

Elizabeth, my understanding, has on her white T-shirt, her black high tops with pink on them. So that`s kind of the description that we have right now.
Click to expand...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How far? How far?

MORRISSEY: -- they made it to the lake -- a mile, mile and a half.

RUSSO: Yes.

MORRISSEY: You know. If they decided to make that journey, which I probably don`t put past a lot of kids to go ahead and do --

RUSSO: We`ve been swimming a lot lately.

MORRISSEY: I think that my daughter, you know, I can speak for my daughter, that yes, she might want to get into that lake.

RUSSO: But we feel they would have took their shoes off, their flip- flops.

MORRISSEY: Yes.

RUSSO: Those would have been left sitting on the shore.

MORRISSEY: On the side -- yes, on the shore.

I mean, we`ve been swimming at a lake all summer for the last five weeks. I`ve been off work. We`ve been swimming and spending time together. I think she`s very comfortable with a lake setting. If it came down to, would she swim? Absolutely.
Click to expand...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html
 
I've just gotten off work and caught up with this thread. I have yet to watch any videos that were recorded/aired in the last 11 hours.

I went to the lake today with my camcorder to try to get an accurate depiction of the trail in that area, but was unable due to police tape. I also checked out the wooded area between Arbutus and the trail. There have been good pics of the trail near where the bikes were found on here, showing the closeness of the fences on either side, etc. I will try to get some pics tomorrow if possible.

Also, afterwards, I went to the park area and saw the grandmother/ladies seated by the cooler. I believe in my earlier post I suspected they were holding some sort of vigil, as I had no idea who they were when I saw them. They are seated near the lakeshore (dock visible in background), almost directly across the lake from where the bikes were located. I would imagine they are there maintaining a presence, as many onlookers and well-wishers are coming and going from that area. There is a boat ramp there, a parking lot, and a playground and shelter house nearby. That area of the lake is very popular, with children and familes. The trail begins there, and continues around the lake, beyond the spot where the bikes were found, and eventually leads away from the lake, turning and heading north further into Evansdale (away from the highway).

The 12:15 - 11:30 change is new to me, so I'll have to view the JVM vid. Having not seen that, the 2:30 sighting is also new to me. I am being instructed as to how to become verified, and will do so tomorrow (its late here, I just worked a shift then read 15-20 pages on here). As far as the 12:27 sighting of the bikes, I will attempt to find the FB posts from which I gleaned my info as well.

The latest I've seen on the FB page, and latest news reports, is that bloodhounds have been brought in, detected the scent of the girls and had followed that scent in some unknown direction. I believe I saw an interview with Misty and Dan on the local news confirming this, and that the LE needed to debrief and determine the meaning of the dog's movement/behavior.

I'm exhausted right now, though, and looking out my window I see no lights or activity at or near the lake (although my view from inside is not exactly clear or great, and it IS 330 am here now). I'm thinking of making some short videos of the area to post here so people can get a clearer picture, but as I said, the actual spot most in question is obviously cordoned off. The pic showing the police car and tape upthread was clearly taken from across the lake with a zoom lens, and really only shows the very westernmost part of the taped-off area. Ideally, I'll try to time the trip from the Collins' to the lake.

Also, fyi concerning the mother/grandmother checking the lake. There are only a few parks in town where kids might go to play, and Meyer's Lake is one of the better-known, although maybe the farthest from the home. You can drive in to the lot and usually see several people in the area. As far as reaching the other side of the lake, that would require you to leave your vehicle and walk all the way around the lake (counter-clockwise) heading west on the trail, then north, then back east between the lake and the highway. Conversely, you could leave the designated "park" area, return back to the road, drive one block north, turn right and travel 1-2 blocks (where you would be right outside the police station), then turn right again and head back to Arbutus, where you would have to park on the street, in a residential neighborhood, to get access to the trail.

Also, there is a lake in town with a beach that is popular. We are going tomorrow. As mentioned, swimming is both forbidden and rare at Meyer's Lake, and there is no spot to enter that wouldn't require getting incredibly muddy/mucky. As I've mentioned, my kids and I walk that trail several times/week, and we play at that park frequently (literally a block away), and I have NEVER seen ANYONE in the lake swimming, nor have I ever seen anyone coming or going who appears to have been swimming. I'm not saying it doesn't/couldn't happen, but if the girls are there, and entered the water anywhere near their bikes, it is more likely to have been by accident than on purpose IMO. Especially where the bikes were found, as that is the spot on the lake where accessing the water is most difficult. It seems if I was going to sneak a swim there, I could find dozens of better spots where I didn't have to climb a fence, or even leave my bike and walk several feet around a fence and into woods.

OK...gotta crash, hoping those dogs are on to something positive.
 
gitana1 said:
That being said, I think it is very clear that this family are victims. Mom of Lyric was at work. Dad apparently was as well.

Both kids were with grandma when they went missing. To believe that mom's reactions show consciousness of guilt would be to believe that dad, mom, grandma and the parents of the other child, are all in on it, as well as possibly the aunt - that either all of them conspired to harm the girls or all of them are conspiring to cover up what one of them did.

That makes no sense.

I find the mom's reactions very odd but maybe she is simply telling herself that they are okay and will be coming back. Maybe she is in hardcore denial.

Bottom line though, the facts indicate there is no way they are involved. They are victims.
Click to expand...

SBM

Gitana, it may be a cultural/regional thing. I haven't seen the HLN interview but I've watched a bunch of other clips.

To me, as an Iowan, both moms are acting normal for the circumstances. They are being Iowans, plain and simple.

Iowa was founded, in large part, by Scandinavian settlers. If you think Garrison Keillor and Lake Wobegon, you're not too far off. It is absolutely normal here to be stoic and hide one's fear or pain.

Most Iowans would rather cut their own hand off using a rusty toenail clipper than cry in public except at funerals. There's a lot of social pressure to put other people at ease, which means doing a lot of smiling and not being too "out there" with one's intense emotions.

For instance, after my mom died, my father, sister and I went around and thanked all the hospice staff. We smiled and shook hands with all of them as we thanked them for the wonderful care they gave my mom. This was less than an hour after she died.

We didn't cry because we didn't want to make the staff feel bad and because, well, we'd rather cut our hands off with rusty toenail clippers than cry in front of strangers.

It's not good or bad, it's just the way Iowans are.
 
The lake with the beach, where I assume the mother was discussing, is at George Wyth State Park. I said "in town," but its in Waterloo. The towns run together, and locals sometimes consider Evansdale, Waterloo, and Cedar Falls all basically part of the same "town" area. My kids love that beach, race into the water, and swim all day. They cringed at the mention of swimming in Meyer's Lake. It's just...yucky, I guess.
 
Also, bought a pizza from Casey's on River Forest yesterday (Sunday), and the clerk there mentioned, as we discussed recent events, that one mother had recently applied and had gotten a job working at the other Casey's. This is obviously hearsay, but it coincides with other things I've read here and what she apparently said in interviews.
 
GrainneDhu said:
SBM

Gitana, it may be a cultural/regional thing. I haven't seen the HLN interview but I've watched a bunch of other clips.

To me, as an Iowan, both moms are acting normal for the circumstances. They are being Iowans, plain and simple.

Iowa was founded, in large part, by Scandinavian settlers. If you think Garrison Keillor and Lake Wobegon, you're not too far off. It is absolutely normal here to be stoic and hide one's fear or pain.

Most Iowans would rather cut their own hand off using a rusty toenail clipper than cry in public except at funerals. There's a lot of social pressure to put other people at ease, which means doing a lot of smiling and not being too "out there" with one's intense emotions.

For instance, after my mom died, my father, sister and I went around and thanked all the hospice staff. We smiled and shook hands with all of them as we thanked them for the wonderful care they gave my mom. This was less than an hour after she died.

We didn't cry because we didn't want to make the staff feel bad and because, well, we'd rather cut our hands off with rusty toenail clippers than cry in front of strangers.

It's not good or bad, it's just the way Iowans are.
Click to expand...

I will also vouch for this. I've seen nothing out of the ordinary from any of the parents. I am related by marriage one of the girls' father. My wife has spoken to his brother, and when I asked how they were holding up, she said they were "a complete wreck." Again, hearsay, but no reason to doubt my wife or her source. You'd never know it by watching them on TV or in public, though, and I agree, that must just be an Iowa thing.

Also, I think this is where I heard of the bloodhounds: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Lakeside-Interview-with-Lyrics-Parents-162680876.html
 
Ollipop said:
I've just gotten off work and caught up with this thread. I have yet to watch any videos that were recorded/aired in the last 11 hours.

I went to the lake today with my camcorder to try to get an accurate depiction of the trail in that area, but was unable due to police tape. I also checked out the wooded area between Arbutus and the trail. There have been good pics of the trail near where the bikes were found on here, showing the closeness of the fences on either side, etc. I will try to get some pics tomorrow if possible.

Also, afterwards, I went to the park area and saw the grandmother/ladies seated by the cooler. I believe in my earlier post I suspected they were holding some sort of vigil, as I had no idea who they were when I saw them. They are seated near the lakeshore (dock visible in background), almost directly across the lake from where the bikes were located. I would imagine they are there maintaining a presence, as many onlookers and well-wishers are coming and going from that area. There is a boat ramp there, a parking lot, and a playground and shelter house nearby. That area of the lake is very popular, with children and familes. The trail begins there, and continues around the lake, beyond the spot where the bikes were found, and eventually leads away from the lake, turning and heading north further into Evansdale (away from the highway).

The 12:15 - 11:30 change is new to me, so I'll have to view the JVM vid. Having not seen that, the 2:30 sighting is also new to me. I am being instructed as to how to become verified, and will do so tomorrow (its late here, I just worked a shift then read 15-20 pages on here). As far as the 12:27 sighting of the bikes, I will attempt to find the FB posts from which I gleaned my info as well.

The latest I've seen on the FB page, and latest news reports, is that bloodhounds have been brought in, detected the scent of the girls and had followed that scent in some unknown direction. I believe I saw an interview with Misty and Dan on the local news confirming this, and that the LE needed to debrief and determine the meaning of the dog's movement/behavior.

I'm exhausted right now, though, and looking out my window I see no lights or activity at or near the lake (although my view from inside is not exactly clear or great, and it IS 330 am here now). I'm thinking of making some short videos of the area to post here so people can get a clearer picture, but as I said, the actual spot most in question is obviously cordoned off. The pic showing the police car and tape upthread was clearly taken from across the lake with a zoom lens, and really only shows the very westernmost part of the taped-off area. Ideally, I'll try to time the trip from the Collins' to the lake.

Also, fyi concerning the mother/grandmother checking the lake. There are only a few parks in town where kids might go to play, and Meyer's Lake is one of the better-known, although maybe the farthest from the home. You can drive in to the lot and usually see several people in the area. As far as reaching the other side of the lake, that would require you to leave your vehicle and walk all the way around the lake (counter-clockwise) heading west on the trail, then north, then back east between the lake and the highway. Conversely, you could leave the designated "park" area, return back to the road, drive one block north, turn right and travel 1-2 blocks (where you would be right outside the police station), then turn right again and head back to Arbutus, where you would have to park on the street, in a residential neighborhood, to get access to the trail.

Also, there is a lake in town with a beach that is popular. We are going tomorrow. As mentioned, swimming is both forbidden and rare at Meyer's Lake, and there is no spot to enter that wouldn't require getting incredibly muddy/mucky. As I've mentioned, my kids and I walk that trail several times/week, and we play at that park frequently (literally a block away), and I have NEVER seen ANYONE in the lake swimming, nor have I ever seen anyone coming or going who appears to have been swimming. I'm not saying it doesn't/couldn't happen, but if the girls are there, and entered the water anywhere near their bikes, it is more likely to have been by accident than on purpose IMO. Especially where the bikes were found, as that is the spot on the lake where accessing the water is most difficult. It seems if I was going to sneak a swim there, I could find dozens of better spots where I didn't have to climb a fence, or even leave my bike and walk several feet around a fence and into woods.

OK...gotta crash, hoping those dogs are on to something positive.
Click to expand...

Just want to let you know that it was mentioned in a MSM article a couple pages back about the guy reporting the bicycles on the trail. Didn't want you to have to go looking for it. :)
 
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