IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[Marilynilpa]

I thought you all might enjoy reading this website-it is really relevant in this case.

http://what-when-how.com/forensic-sciences/recovery-of-human-remains/

also there has been much discussion about bodies being found or remains.

This article mentions BOTH and specifically mentions remains 2 times. I thought there was a difference? If so, why would this article use both terms?

And officials have concluded the autopsies of the remains, although the results aren’t finalized.

The Iowa Medical Examiner’s Office in Ankeny completed the autopsies of the remains on Friday, according to Dr. Dennis Klein. He said the results remain pending the outcome of further tests.

BBM

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_eb5c81b6-42db-11e2-b39a-001a4bcf887a.html


Since the girls have been found I thought they were recently placed there but if it is remains that were found then I was wrong.

From the Recovery of Human Remains link you posted:

"The primary event in the recovery of human remains is finding the body. Most remains are found by accident. In the Midwest and South of the United States a majority of the remains are found in the fall or spring by hunters, farmers working their fields, or others such as hikers in the woods and construction workers performing excavations at job sites."

BBM

It looks like "human remains" and "body" are used interchangeably in this tutorial (which was very interesting, by the way, thanks for posting it.)

The word "body", in other words, doesn't mean the person has been dead a shorter amount of time than if the phrase "human remains" is used.

I think some have used the word "bodies" simply because it seems less harsh that the phrase "human remains" when talking about two dead little girls. JMO

ETA: I see cluciano63 has stated the same thing much more succinctly, LOL!

 

[B4igo2it]

All I know is I can't tear myself away from CVM facebook. It's like a bad soap opera, one I've seen before. Interesting too if it's true.

I agree It was interesting reading comments. I would find my hometown one to be interesting too, although I have been gone for 35 years and don't really know anyone there anymore.
In small towns, everyone knows of everyone and not much is unknown - people talk. I came from a rural town of 3,000 we knew everyone in our town and all towns within at least a 20 mile radius, and some even further away, especially with relatives living in other areas. I was raised on MN/IA border with most relatives in Iowa and friends in both states. We knew each other's family, relatives, friends, etc. Also with sports in school playing other towns we met many in other towns.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

all i know is i can't tear myself away from cvm facebook. It's like a bad soap opera, one i've seen before. Interesting too if it's true.

lol! Me too! And yes, very interesting...

 

[Ollipop]

Some of you were talking about a RSO with the initials CF

His pic was posted on cedar valley mugshots and there is very interesting comments under/next to the photo

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.ph...58819775.56489.279285502183184&type=1&theater

All I know is I can't tear myself away from CVM facebook. It's like a bad soap opera, one I've seen before. Interesting too if it's true.

Likewise...there are hints from the inner circle of a possible potential POI, but lots of hearsay and it is cloudy.

 

[borndem]

I think they've had their suspect/s all along.

I hope now that they found the girls, they will be able to prove it and make an arrest.

Note even though the girls have been found murdered, there are still no LE warnings about a predator.

BBM

Noted, 'Steel. You'd think that LE would have made an appeal to the public when they reported that the girls had been found or identified, for folks to continue to be alert since the killer(s) had not been caught. To say, yes, we've made good progress in this case, but the killer is still at large, and to continue to be vigilant, report anything unusual, continue to keep your doors locked, and for parents to be observant and to have their kids be careful, etc., etc. But no, nothing was really said, AFAIK.

Seems to me, that even if they had a likely suspect in the house and were interviewing him, they would still say something about continuing to be alert, and so on...

Odd, huh?? Do they want us to read between the lines, or what?!

ETA: Could the perp or POI already be in custody or incarcerated for some other crime?

:twocents:

 

[GrainneDhu]

From the Recovery of Human Remains link you posted:

"The primary event in the recovery of human remains is finding the body. Most remains are found by accident. In the Midwest and South of the United States a majority of the remains are found in the fall or spring by hunters, farmers working their fields, or others such as hikers in the woods and construction workers performing excavations at job sites."

BBM

It looks like "human remains" and "body" are used interchangeably in this tutorial (which was very interesting, by the way, thanks for posting it.)

The word "body", in other words, doesn't mean the person has been dead a shorter amount of time than if the phrase "human remains" is used.

I think some have used the word "bodies" simply because it seems less harsh that the phrase "human remains" when talking about two dead little girls. JMO

ETA: I see cluciano63 has stated the same thing much more succinctly, LOL!

I agree with you and cluciano63!

My impression from the very beginning of the case has been that the Black Hawk Sheriff's Department has been protective and respectful towards both families. I think Abben wanted to avoid any terminology that would put horrible images into their minds.

Totally tangential thought: I was glad to read that Heather is going up to Mayo to have her surgery. I have three anesthesiologists in my immediate family and all three agree they would not care to do the surgery on someone who has been under so much ongoing stress (and one of the three specialises in anesthesia for heart transplants).

She couldn't find a better place for care than Mayo and frankly, I feel she needs the best.

 

[tlcya]

New to posting so please bear with me. Dec.11 kwwl story re: Elizabeth's Mom ,says "she has not spoke to Misty in quite some time".Fc courier story Dec. 8, SK(not sure if I can post name),said she spent most of Wed. evening with the Collinses and Misty at Vineyard Church. This does not compute.

:welcome:

Thank you for posting and joining the conversation.

 

[Mjskit]

All I know is I can't tear myself away from CVM facebook. It's like a bad soap opera, one I've seen before. Interesting too if it's true.

CVM? Did I miss something?

 

[cindersoot]

Likewise...there are hints from the inner circle of a possible potential POI, but lots of hearsay and it is cloudy.

Cloudy, with a chance of? Come on Ollipop, spill. We are all friends here and are invested.

 

[JaimeInLA]

lol! Me too! And yes, very interesting...

Me three. My favorite was when they started calling him her brother. LOL!

 

[cindersoot]

Okay, this has been bugging me all day. I want to tell forensics to check for horse hair on the clothing. DO YOU HEAR ME LE!!!

 

[Marilynilpa]

Likewise...there are hints from the inner circle of a possible potential POI, but lots of hearsay and it is cloudy.

Nice to hear from you again, and I hope you and your family are okay. I remember early on that your son was worried about the missing girls.

I know you probably don't want to go into details, but can you tell us if you have heard of Chad Fitz?

Thanks.

 

[borndem]

And another thang:

This may have already been hashed out, but I haven't seen it -- I have been rushing to try & keep up....so please forgive if I'm repeating someone else.

Could just one individual capture and hold onto two girls, even though they might be so young & prolly no match for him? Even if he were to disable one of them by injury, what about the other girl? Would the one girl still standing immediately run away? I doubt it. She would, IMO, try to help her cousin any way she could -- fighting him, hitting him with a rock or a tree branch, yelling, kicking, etc., etc. Would he put a rope around both of them? Sneak up behind them with a weapon? What? That has been bugging me since I started following this case. Two victims....

Would he feign injury and expect them to try to help him, and then capture them? Same problem there, too.

Multiple perps would be different... but then you have more than one in on it, & that often turns out to be one too many, in many cases -- if both are captured, that is...

It bugs me.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Okay, this has been bugging me all day. I want to tell forensics to check for horse hair on the clothing. DO YOU HEAR ME LE!!!

Cinder, cinder, cinder - I can say one thing for you without hesitation - when you come up with a theory, you really stick with it! And I can't say anything else without naming names and getting us both in trouble.

I hope you know I say this with the greatest of affection.

 

[SouthernMom]

I think way too much is being read into "bodies" vs. "remains". Sometimes LE use one word, while the ME may use another. I don't think they are hinting at length of time the girls were there before they were found. JMO

ITA :twocents:

 

[Marilynilpa]

CVM? Did I miss something?

CVM = Cedar Valley Mugshots, a FB site with a page for Chad Fitz, the RSO we've discussed on and off for a couple of days. Here's the link:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...58819775.56489.279285502183184&type=1&theater

 

[cindersoot]

Cinder, cinder, cinder - I can say one thing for you without hesitation - when you come up with a theory, you really stick with it! And I can't say anything else without naming names and getting us both in trouble.

I hope you know I say this with the greatest of affection.

You got me, you know me. Hugs!!:rocker:

 

[SouthernMom]

Could just one individual capture and hold onto two girls, even though they might be so young & prolly no match for him? Even if he were to disable one of them by injury, what about the other girl? Would the one girl still standing immediately run away?

This very thing has happened before with one perp. Joseph E Duncan, III kidnapped and killed two young girls SammiJo White, 11, her sister Carmen Cubias, 9 in 1996.

 

[MNDad]

Me three. My favorite was when they started calling him her brother. LOL!

Me Four. I know Ollipop will find an acceptable TOS way of letting us know the scoop.

 

[Marilynilpa]

And another thang:

This may have already been hashed out, but I haven't seen it -- I have been rushing to try & keep up....so please forgive if I'm repeating someone else.

Could just one individual capture and hold onto two girls, even though they might be so young & prolly no match for him? Even if he were to disable one of them by injury, what about the other girl? Would the one girl still standing immediately run away? I doubt it. She would, IMO, try to help her cousin any way she could -- fighting him, hitting him with a rock or a tree branch, yelling, kicking, etc., etc. Would he put a rope around both of them? Sneak up behind them with a weapon? What? That has been bugging me since I started following this case. Two victims....

Would he feign injury and expect them to try to help him, and then capture them? Same problem there, too.

Multiple perps would be different... but then you have more than one in on it, & that often turns out to be one too many, in many cases -- if both are captured, that is...

It bugs me.

We've discussed this many times, but it's always good to get another person's point of view.

I believe all the perp had to do was tell one girl that if she didn't comply, he would harm the other girl. IMO, that would be as effective as brandishing a weapon. It reminds me of a line from The Green Mile, when John Coffey said "He killed them with their love. With their love for each other. That's how it is, every day, all over the world."

Some posters feel the perp used a weapon to control the girls.

Others poster feel there was more than one perp.

So as you can see, we have differing opinions on the subject, but we are all united in our desire to see this perp behind bars.