IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

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otto said:
Sharon Rocha, in her book about her daughter Laci Peterson, describes lying in bed for weeks after receiving the news that her daughter's remains had been found. The fact that Heather gets up, looks after the three remaining children, puts herself together and is the voice of her murdered daughter is commendable. It seems that her faith in God gives her the strength to face this head on. This is the opposite of what the perp wants. He wants the focus to be on him and his evil deeds, but the family has made it clear that they couldn't care less about the details of his time with the children. Hopefully this will force the perp to want to shout it from the rooftops.
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BBM

w/all due respect to you (and this brd), I sincerely don't understand what point you're trying to make?!? Please clarify... TY...
 
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Marilynilpa said:
And please note that I realize there are MANY different theories. The purpose of my post is not to elicit a list of alternatives to my two possible motives.

But I would enjoy hearing from anyone about these two motives in light of the bodies being found at Seven Bridges. Does this make these two motives less likely? (LOL, I know most of you probably felt they were unlikely from the beginning!)
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Your two motives are
1.) to send a message
2.) revenge

My question would be, would the killer then have experience in killing for these reasons (in other words, a "hit man") or is it a first time killing?
 
otto said:
KISS = "keep it simple stupid"

Profilers have no better success rate than psychics ... check out the article in the New Yorker.
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An article called "Dangerous Minds," written by one Malcolm Gladwell (who also wrote Tipping Point and Blink, both of which I have read), by chance?
 
emiusacska said:
This came from the NG page on FB posted by Mary Wille Close:
The thing I don't understand is there was a lady that posted to a community page on Facebook telling people the day after they disappered that she was going to search the 7 bridges park and wanted people to go with her and that police should look there now why aren't they looking at her as a suspect since she obviously knew where to look. I don't think it was a coencedence that she said that.
This was posted on Monday around 7:02pm.
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Not to be all conspiracy theory on you, but I also noticed her on the CF photo posting. It made me curious, I should see if her comments are still there.
 
I am so glad that the service is being taped.
The LE can see if any known perps show up.
 
otto said:
Thankfully, I know nothing about guns, but I do know a gun shot sound when I hear it, and I know that sound carries very well in the country, especially when the shot is about 1000 feet away. So the perp not only carefully planned the location of the bikes and hiding the bodies, but also potentially had some sort of special weapon for shooting people quietly?
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You can get .22 ammo that is so quiet it sounds like a pellet gun. Shoot in the backyard in town and no one hears.

I don't know that it indicates that it was preplanned, they may just use it to get rid of squirrels and stuff in city limits without getting in trouble.
 
SouthernMom said:
snipped by me

Your two motives are
1.) to send a message
2.) revenge

My question would be, would the killer then have experience in killing for these reasons (in other words, a "hit man") or is it a first time killing?
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I definitely don't think hit man. I think it may be a first time killing, but probably not the first time this person has committed a crime.
 
otto said:
The shaded area is private land. Gunshots in this area in July - when there are no hunters - would attract a lot of unwanted attention.



http://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=330&LayerID=3621&PageTypeID=1&PageID=2344
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RSBM

I already commented about quiet ammo, but why would gunshots in a remote area draw attention? It is a rural area, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who shoot on their property. If the people who live nearest there hear gun shots on a regular basis, I'm sure they never gave it second thought.

Since hunting is allowed there, I'm sure there are people that go there in off season for some target shooting.

I've never called to report a gun shot nor thought to, if I lived in city limits that would be a different story.
 
I'm watching the live feed of the memorial, and in particular watching Heather.

I sincerely pray that her strength continues, but I fear that after this is over, in some quiet, dark moment, the finality of what has happened will hit her. And I don't think any amount of faith is going to comfort her in that moment. I hope people will be there to help her get past that life-changing point.

JMO, and from personal experience. I don't mean to imply Heather's faith isn't strong, but there are times, IMO, when it just can't be strong enough to handle some losses.
 
I bet the perp will be at that service tonight. I also bet there will be civilian clothed FBI.
 
Marilynilpa said:
From fairly early on, I had a particular theory about what happened to the girls. And it didn't involve an RSO, or a pedophile. I believe SapphireSteel and I had similar theories, and I believe a few others may have shared those theories.

But ever since the bodies were located, I've been thinking about my original theory. If the girls were abducted per my theory, I expected the girls to be killed, and to either (1) be placed out in the open in such a way that they would be found quickly or, (2) be buried/disposed of in such a way that they would never be found.

My reasons for thinking this are:

(1) If the girls were abducted for non-sexual reasons by someone hoping to send a message, how would they know their message was received if the bodies weren't found quickly? No one would know they killed the girls unless their bodies were found. So what would be the purpose of abducting/killing the girls to send a message that might never be received?

(2) If the girls were taken for revenge against someone, I expected they would never be found. We are all familiar with cases where bodies have never been found, decades later. Leaving the bodies in an area visited by hunters or other outdoorsmen would offer no assurance that the bodies wouldn't be found sooner rather than later. If someone wanted revenge against any of the family members for whatever reason, the worst torture IMO would be for the girls to never be found. The families would always be left to wonder, is she safe, is she warm, is she hungry, is she even alive??

Please note that the revenge theory could pertain to both sets of parents, or aunts, uncles, grandparents, anyone. I don't want anyone to think I am referring to any particular person.

In reading what I've typed, I realize I haven't articulated my two motives as clearly as I would like. But I hope they are clear enough for everyone to understand.

And please note that I realize there are MANY different theories. The purpose of my post is not to elicit a list of alternatives to my two possible motives.

But I would enjoy hearing from anyone about these two motives in light of the bodies being found at Seven Bridges. Does this make these two motives less likely? (LOL, I know most of you probably felt they were unlikely from the beginning!)
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BBM

If the perp was not familiar with hunting, then it's possible he didn't know it was a hunting area.

I've found most people who aren't familiar with various topics know very little about them. Does that make sense? For example, we love to shoot, hike and do off roading. As such we know where we can legally shoot, where hiking trails are and where off roading trails are located. There are people who potentially live within a 1/4 mile of where we do such activities who are completely unaware that such things exist so close to home.

I hope that makes sense. Basically city folk who are not outdoorsy rarely know how frequented hunting ground can be visited.
 
Just thinking about a possible COD (Disclaimer:which has not been released and probably won't be until the trial if there ever is one.), maybe a local could tell us if it would have been out of place to hear a gunshot in the Seven Bridges park in mid July.
My personal theory is that the girls were abducted by a perp with a gun, but that they were strangled.
 
GrainneDhu said:
I think it is more likely that they are two sisters who grew up together and have a history of stomping on each other's buttons, probably inadvertently. They are such different people and I can understand reasons for being annoyed on both sides.

Right now, the killer is more of a theoretical person. A person who did something horrible but who doesn't have a face or a name or a history of making you look like a jerk in front of the whole school when you were in elementary school.

I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly.

Forgiveness is a process rather than an instantaneous thing. I strongly suspect that when this killer has a name and a face, the Collinses will have to work all over again on forgiving him.

The problem with forgiving one's sister is that she (usually) doesn't see that she's wrong and she keeps doing or saying the wrong thing. And, most infuriating, she thinks the same of her own sister!

So at this point, it's easier to be angry with MCM and not forgive her.

Sibling relationships are often complicated, with long histories that no one else remembers. At least not in the same living detail the siblings remember.
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Yes Grannie the siblings remember I agree with your clearly put the question you asked I agree ? How can some one forgive a murderer of your Daughter? And yet not forgive you flesh and blood sister? strange how things are in each of us .I know with all Heart" God " will heal this and Lyric & Lizzie will be the senders of warning's to all youg childeren Beware there is danger wiith strangers they are never what they seem to be . We must learn to think more than twice and watchful eye is the safest .
 
iamnotagolem said:
BBM

If the perp was not familiar with hunting, then it's possible he didn't know it was a hunting area.

I've found most people who aren't familiar with various topics know very little about them. Does the make sense. For example, we love to shoot, hike and do off roading. As such we know where we can legally shoot, where hiking trails are and where off roading trails are located. There are people who potentially live within a 1/4 mile of where we do such activities who are completely unaware that such things exist so close to home.

I hope that makes sense. Basically city folk who are not outdoorsy rarely know how frequented hunting ground can be visited.
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What does that tell us about the perp ... knowing that the area is remote and a hunting area where it would be difficult to notice a body even when standing within a few feet of a body? Is that a city person or a rural person?
 
otto said:
Thankfully, I know nothing about guns, but I do know a gun shot sound when I hear it, and I know that sound carries very well in the country, especially when the shot is about 1000 feet away. So the perp not only carefully planned the location of the bikes and hiding the bodies, but also potentially had some sort of special weapon for shooting people quietly?
Click to expand...

They're called "silencers".

You can make a silencer, quite easily, with ordinary tools in your garden shed.

Recently we had a man arrested here who had even produced machine guns in his backyard :eek:

How to Make Silencer (Easy Guide) - YouTube

ETA you don't even need tools or a shed it seems...
 
otto said:
What does that tell us about the perp ... knowing that the area is remote and a hunting area where it would be difficult to notice a body even when standing within a few feet of a body? Is that a city person or a rural person?
Click to expand...

But what if he didn't know that? What if he just drove until he felt he was safely away from home base and drove down a dead end road and dumped them.

We really don't know if he intentionally hid them or just dumped them down the first untraveled road he found.

Maybe he is a hunter and has hunted there before and had never seen anyone hunting there when he had been there in the past.

It is impossible to know, but just wanted to give some perspective to both scenarios.
 
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