IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[georger]

IIRC, WC had seen the girls doing just that, riding around and around the house and parking lots there, and I believe even called to them to come in. As to which was first, however, the camera capturing them, or her seeing them in the parking lot of Lederman's, I am not certain of, but it does seem very close in time of one another (minutes, at best). Also, WC has stated that the two were in and out, leaving juice on the counter, etc., then 15-20 minutes with no sign of them, when they knew they were to stay close, and be home within that general timeframe.

If those two did take off for Meyers Lake, or even just the southern end of Evansdale, they were 'breaking the rules.' That age, very possible. Just that a few other subtle things that day make me go "Hm" on that.

Were these girls apt to break the rules? Did so regularly? Never did?
Ocassionally did? Had they ever run off together biking before? How do we
guage the liklihood they took off for the Lake on their own at this time
with the Grandmother already having told them to stick close and be
home by a certain time?

 

[georger]

Grandmother doesn't live on Brovan where they were that afternoon, the Collins' do. GM's house is 3.6 miles away.

ok then - whoever's house it was!
sorry

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Were these girls apt to break the rules? Did so regularly? Never did?
Ocassionally did? Had they ever run off together biking before? How do we
guage the liklihood they took off for the Lake on their own at this time
with the Grandmother already having told them to stick close and be
home by a certain time?

I, personally, do not have a clue for fact if they were apt to break rules or not, but I got the overall, general feeling from consistent statements that it is highly unlikely. All of the fuss only a week prior with Lyric and her cousin (an older one), resulting in the police being called, actually suggests to me that such an event was unusual, not the norm.

There is one other thing I would like to point out, as well. Heather Collins was at a doctor's appointment over a very serious heart condition, and those two girls KNEW THIS. While they were young, they certainly were not at an age to override concern of their own with "breaking the rules" to a great extent. It is just one of those subtle little things that day that makes me hesitate the whole "Meyers Lake" thing.

For the record, I am not CONVINCED they didn't, just not so prone to swing that direction is all.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Why would she get worried if the kids are only a few minutes late, if they
are only riding 'around the block', and going by the house time after time ?
Was she watching? Had she seen them go by once already? Twice? What
is she worried about if this is an ordinary day and an ordinary bike ride ???

I wonder how well that video has been analysed (frame by frame) and by who?

BBM

Quote:

Pahl said FBI officials arrived within 20 minutes of learning about the video and “sat up here all Monday until about noon on Tuesday watching everything we had.”

“I think they marked every single car that went by,” he said. “I know they downloaded a ton of stuff off of this.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[TeenyTaurus]

ok then - whoever's house it was!
sorry

Wasn't trying to be snarky, georger, I'm just really, really tired, so kept it brief. Been a long day, and Connecticut didn't help much. Sorry if I sounded blunt.

 

[Marilynilpa]

By all accounts the girls were out riding their bikes oblivious to any threat
(normal day), when caught on the video we've all seen. However, several
observers of that video have remarked at how 'fast (?) the girls whisk by
in the frame of view. (I havent calculated the actual speed the one bike
is traveling on the video). Does it strike anyone else the girls were going
by at an unusual speed? Could the girls have been running from something
already when caught on that vid ? Does one of the girls look behind her
in that video?

I found that video to be very difficult to make out. In fact, I wouldn't even have known the images on the video were Lyric and Elizabeth if it hadn't been pointed out.

Some have said they've seen shadowy figures or images on the video, but I was unable to see that.

The speed of the bikes was hard for me to determine, but it appeared that one girls was slightly ahead of the other. That's why I wondered if maybe they were racing each other. JMO

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I found that video to be very difficult to make out. In fact, I wouldn't even have known the images on the video were Lyric and Elizabeth if it hadn't been pointed out.

Some have said they've seen shadowy figures or images on the video, but I was unable to see that.

The speed of the bikes was hard for me to determine, but it appeared that one girls was slightly ahead of the other. That's why I wondered if maybe they were racing each other. JMO

I wondered for some time how they figured those blurry figures were the girls myself, until later on it was reported that they had viewed HOURS of video, all day long, and those were the only two cyclists to have passed that camera, and WC had stated they had been riding in that vicinity.

The camera was really only designed for optimal recording (at best) of the small rear parking lot of the auction house, not the adjoining street, sadly enough. Doesn't have a tremendous ability for that distance but, then, why should it? The auction house isn't concerned with who drives along Brovan, only someone on the property. At least they had something, though.

Hate to say it, but most surveillance cameras like that aren't the best for positive ID to the degree we'd like them to have.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

It is just sooo frustrating that this seems to have this shaky vacuum between about 12:15PM and almost 4PM that day! I in no way feel LE wasn't doing the best anyone could expect from them, but so much time with so little in it!

While so incredibly sad that the outcome of the girls' fate was not what we all hoped desperately for, at least they were found! And it will give LE a lot to work with, I feel. Let them take their time, make it STICK. Whoever did this is a coward and a monster, and need not 'get off' on a 'technicality.'

 

[nikb]

BBM

Quote:

Pahl said FBI officials arrived within 20 minutes of learning about the video and “sat up here all Monday until about noon on Tuesday watching everything we had.”

“I think they marked every single car that went by,” he said. “I know they downloaded a ton of stuff off of this.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

Wow good memory, thanks!!!

 

[chelsea6]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't remember seeing the question.

How long does it take to run DNA samples or fingerprints (possibly on duct tape) from a national database? And do all states have that in place now? :waitasec:

 

[chelsea6]

How often did Lyric's mom allow her daughter in bars with her? (heard from reliable source here in Evansdale that witnessed it she had Lyric asking strangers for cigarettes because she was out) Maybe the perp remembered her from there?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't remember seeing the question.

How long does it take to run DNA samples or fingerprints (possibly on duct tape) from a national database? And do all states have that in place now? :waitasec:

Yes, all states are contributing to the DNA database although the precise details of who is tested varies... but in many states, there are extensive backlogs of samples to be tested. The problem is twofold: doing the tests requires highly trained personnel and there just isn't enough funding in many states to keep up with the pace of testing.

As for how long it takes to run samples, that varies widely. The simplest DNA tests can be done in 48 hours; the really complex and sensitive tests can take up to 8 weeks to run.

Fingerprints are a lot faster and, due to advances in computer matching, can be done in as little as 20 minutes. That is, assuming that a reasonably complete print was left; partial fingerprints can be difficult to impossible to definitively match to any single person.

 

[GrainneDhu]

How often did Lyric's mom allow her daughter in bars with her? (heard from reliable source here in Evansdale that witnessed it she had Lyric asking strangers for cigarettes because she was out) Maybe the perp remembered her from there?

I'm not being snarky but do you have a msm source or a WS verified source for that?

If not, then you may want to consult with a moderator to find out if you are violating WS terms of service. If you click on the little triangular button at the top right of the box your post appears in, you can use that to write a note to ask a moderator about your post.

WS really tries hard to keep rumours out, particularly rumours that would be hurtful to the family or families of the victim.

 

[chelsea6]

I'm not being snarky but do you have a msm source or a WS verified source for that?

If not, then you may want to consult with a moderator to find out if you are violating WS terms of service. If you click on the little triangular button at the top right of the box your post appears in, you can use that to write a note to ask a moderator about your post.

WS really tries hard to keep rumours out, particularly rumours that would be hurtful to the family or families of the victim.

Yup.. just did.. very reliable source. It shouldn't be hurtful to the families. It's nothing in this area for people to bring their kids with them to bars during the day for lunch, etc. They come in by themselves sometimes for chips, pop, etc. too, but wasn't wondering about that. Never thought you were being snarky, hun. Good things to point out.

 

[otto]

The therapeutic solution is not yet fully known, so far as I know.

However, without people to experiment with, how will we ever evaluate therapeutic approaches and find solutions?

I'm not advocating using prisoners as guinea pigs (unethical to the extreme) but so far as I know, there are no identical people outside of prison to someone who would kill two young girls. So, as I see it, it is somewhat analogous to AIDS; in the beginning of retroviral therapy, they did have to experiment on human subjects but those subjects had no other options. Right now, prisoners have no other options than to rot in prison.

When you mention "experiment with", I'm assuming that you mean in the Pavlov, not Mengele, sense of experimentation (joking)

 

[otto]

I wondered for some time how they figured those blurry figures were the girls myself, until later on it was reported that they had viewed HOURS of video, all day long, and those were the only two cyclists to have passed that camera, and WC had stated they had been riding in that vicinity.

The camera was really only designed for optimal recording (at best) of the small rear parking lot of the auction house, not the adjoining street, sadly enough. Doesn't have a tremendous ability for that distance but, then, why should it? The auction house isn't concerned with who drives along Brovan, only someone on the property. At least they had something, though.

Hate to say it, but most surveillance cameras like that aren't the best for positive ID to the degree we'd like them to have.

I think the important point is that police have been able to conclude that the two cyclists in the video clip were the girls. What we also know is that no other businesses on the main street, like the bank, had footage of the girls on their bikes. That helps in terms of defining the path they took ... meaning ... it's most likely that Wilma last saw the girls heading East towards the shopping center parking lot near the old post office, didn't see them loop back towards the house, the video shows the girls heading West on Brovan, and that is the last sighting of them.

Here is the parking lot shopping center where Wilma last saw them

(thanks to Considering for helping identify businesses in the building)

Here's the back of that shopping center

These are possible "loops" around that parking area

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Anyone think this article is about CF?

"Chief Smock told KWWL sex offender teams from the state Division of Criminal Investigation are helping interview people of interest, but he says no one has been detained and those interviewed are not any closer to being suspects than anyone else.

On the other hand, he says no one's been cleared of suspicion, either"


Evansdale Police Chief Squashes Rumors about Arrest
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20351247/...chief-squashes-rumors-of-arrest-in-girls-case

 

[chelsea6]

Anyone think this article is about CF?

"Chief Smock told KWWL sex offender teams from the state Division of Criminal Investigation are helping interview people of interest, but he says no one has been detained and those interviewed are not any closer to being suspects than anyone else.

On the other hand, he says no one's been cleared of suspicion, either"


Evansdale Police Chief Squashes Rumors about Arrest
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20351247/...chief-squashes-rumors-of-arrest-in-girls-case

I don't know, but that is kind of an oxymoron isn't it?? :waitasec:

 

[B4igo2it]

Post 1538 - Totally Awesome OTTO

 

[Squeeze]

Anyone think this article is about CF?

"Chief Smock told KWWL sex offender teams from the state Division of Criminal Investigation are helping interview people of interest, but he says no one has been detained and those interviewed are not any closer to being suspects than anyone else.

On the other hand, he says no one's been cleared of suspicion, either"


Evansdale Police Chief Squashes Rumors about Arrest
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20351247/...chief-squashes-rumors-of-arrest-in-girls-case

As long as Mr. CF is on their radar, that's good enough for me. Interesting that relatives told me yesterday that there had been an arrest, steaming from all of these rumors. So I had to fill them in on the WS and FB happenings. Ironicly, one of them works at the courthouse.