IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[NWLady]

Has anyone heard if Lyric's "Celebration of Life" is going to be live streamed like Elizabeth's was?
I remember somewhere reading that Heather and Drew attend church in Cedar Falls, and Misty and Lyric attended church in Evansdale. Just curious as to why Lyric's "Celebration of Life" is in Cedar Falls rather than Evansdale.

Now don't be throwing bricks at me or putting me in time out for my next question but it's just something I've been curious about...Is it normal that someone who lives in Waterloo would go to Evansdale to Meyers Lake to get some exercise? Aren't there places in Waterloo, other parks and such, that you can do this? I know I would get very short-winded just getting to Evansdale and back, let alone thinking about all the exercise I'd be getting while in Evansdale.

 

[chelsea6]

Now don't be throwing bricks at me or putting me in time out for my next question but it's just something I've been curious about...Is it normal that someone who lives in Waterloo would go to Evansdale to Meyers Lake to get some exercise? Aren't there places in Waterloo, other parks and such, that you can do this? I know I would get very short-winded just getting to Evansdale and back, let alone thinking about all the exercise I'd be getting while in Evansdale.

Just speaking for me, living on the outskirts between Evansdale and Waterloo, it seems too out of the way. We only went there a couple times decades ago when my kids were little so they could see the old army tank it has. I've driven by the entrance a few times since then, but never went in. Everyone I know is of the mindset it was a small run down park they upgraded to draw the development of some wealthier houses surrounding the entrance and around it. Quite possibly designed especially for some friends/family of the city planning and zoning committee to build homes on, providing awesome views and access to the lake, who knows? This makes it feel like a "private" area, so nobody I know has even talked about going there or actually went there until this happened.
Yes, there are trails all over Waterloo, and along the river too. I can't see anyone making a special trip to go there, unless they have friends in Evansdale near there that want to go. Nobody I've heard of anyway.

 

[chelsea6]

A reason the girls would want to ride their bikes behind the car wash is to see how low the river was getting because of all the heat. They would just ride their bikes behind the car wash and walk up the side of the dike to get a view of the river.

 

[Elley Mae]

Every time I try to figure out where this happened, I come back to the area around the Collin's home.

I've read varying times that the girls first went for a bike ride, so it was somewhere between 11:30 and 12. We know that the girls remained close to home unti 12:15, per the video camera. There are apparently two other sightings that may or may not be valid. One is on Brovan Blvd (in front of the house) at 12:23 and the other is at Gilbert and Elmer between 12:30 and 1 PM.

If the girls were riding bikes near the house for at least 15 minutes, doing exactly what they were allowed to do, why would they suddenly - shortly before they were expected to go home, decide to ride to Meyers Lake, park their bikes at a drainage gate, go through the gate, leave the purse on the ground, and disappear? That just doesn't add up for me. First, if they wanted to take off to the lake, why didn't they do it right away when they started their bike ride - why wait at least 15-23 minutes? Secondly, if they wanted to go to the lake, why were they riding towards River Forest Road when several other roads are safer and faster? Third, if they decided to take off on their bikes knowing that Wylma had to leave for an appointment soon, why would they park their bikes, go through the gate, put down the purse and do anything ... that is, a quick ride to the park and back is one thing, but the bikes/purse give the impression that they were dawdling, exploring, passing the time without concern for the consequences.

Because of the above points, I am inclined to think that they were taken at the corner of Brovan Blvd and River Forest Road and that someone carefully and deliberately staged the bikes and purse based on the assumption that the girls would not be missed for some time ... that when the bikes and purse were found, everyone would assume they were on an afternoon bike ride and happened to stop at that location to explore the area.

otto I too feel that this happened close to the intersection. I have never thought that the girls went to the lake on their own. After looking at the area on google maps I have also thought that the bikes were dropped off, on the perpetrators way. I do think the perps were driving on River Forest and after getting the girls and bikes in the vehicle they proceeded down River Forest to the Lake. I think they then took the trail rd and dumped the bikes. As I said before when finding out the purse was on the other side of the fence, I think it was thrown over by one of the perpetrators either out of the back of the truck/van. I then believe they got on Gilbert and headed east to Mccoy and turned left, then right on Lafayette and left on Gilbertville /S Elk Run rd.

 

[Anna1964]

That road bothers me a lot.

River Forest Road has always bothered me also. No reason at all, but I can't get the idea that they may have traveled south on that road out of my head. It has been ages ago, but I think I saw a sidewalk on one of the maps. Does anyone know if it has one? I am sure that has been mentioned, but cannot remember.

 

[otto]

River Forest Road has always bothered me also. No reason at all, but I can't get the idea that they may have traveled south on that road out of my head. It has been ages ago, but I think I saw a sidewalk on one of the maps. Does anyone know if it has one? I am sure that has been mentioned, but cannot remember.

There is a sidewalk on the west side of the road for a couple of blocks, but there is no sidewalk all the way from Brovan to Gilbert.

 

[JaimeInLA]

When police dragged in the one and only person of interest to be named in this case (which was later retracted), it was the white van guy seen on camera at Casey's. Was this the Casey's on River Forest Road?

 

[threecrazykids]

The girls' case hasn't been listed as a homicide yet, so far as I know.

One of the theories that has been kicked around ever since the girls disappeared is that they met with some sort of accident and someone panicked.

It's possible although it is hard to imagine a single accident that would kill both girls. Stranger things have certainly happened.

Ok...thinking along these lines...would the ME be able to determine if this WAS an accident IF their remains had degraded to bones? Say the girls were off their bikes and were hit by a vehicle? One could assume you would be able to tell broken bones maybe?


Say someone DID drown them (be it at Meyers Lake or even at 7 bridges) with malicious intent, would LE be able to determine that IF the remains were bones?

Also...maybe it's just me, but if LE felt this was an accident where someone had panicked I feel maybe LE would be more inclined to tell the family that...and even maybe play on the emotions of the perp? Probably not (because it is STILL a crime)...but maybe the perp would be more likely to come forward if LE released a statement such as "it has been determined that the death of Lyric and Elizabeth could be the result of a horrible accident where someone possibly panicked and disposed of their bodies" (or something along these lines).

Now, I don't think this is a case of accident, but if it were I would hope LE would tell the family as much and even maybe make a statement indicating they don't feel this was an intentional murder.:dunno:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ok...thinking along these lines...would the ME be able to determine if this WAS an accident IF their remains had degraded to bones? Say the girls were off their bikes and were hit by a vehicle? One could assume you would be able to tell broken bones maybe?


Say someone DID drown them (be it at Meyers Lake or even at 7 bridges) with malicious intent, would LE be able to determine that IF the remains were bones?

Also...maybe it's just me, but if LE felt this was an accident where someone had panicked I feel maybe LE would be more inclined to tell the family that...and even maybe play on the emotions of the perp? Probably not (because it is STILL a crime)...but maybe the perp would be more likely to come forward if LE released a statement such as "it has been determined that the death of Lyric and Elizabeth could be the result of a horrible accident where someone possibly panicked and disposed of their bodies" (or something along these lines).

Now, I don't think this is a case of accident, but if it were I would hope LE would tell the family as much and even maybe make a statement indicating they don't feel this was an intentional murder.:dunno:

LE appear to have not only told the girls they were murdered, they have also apparently told them that they have suspects and a definite line of investigation.

:cow:

 

[NWLady]

A reason the girls would want to ride their bikes behind the car wash is to see how low the river was getting because of all the heat. They would just ride their bikes behind the car wash and walk up the side of the dike to get a view of the river.

For those of us not familiar with the area, could someone please make a little map to show us where this river is, where the Caseys is where white van was seen that was cleared, and how you'd get to this river from Drew and Heather's? I know Otto does wonderful maps and we all greatly appreciate that, Thank You Otto! :great: And just maybe Otto you would do this for us once again...lease:

Also, what is the name of this river and does it lead into or near the river that goes thru Seven Bridges Park?

Happy Holidays to everyone! God Bless You and Your Families.

 

[Snowbunny]

I have always felt that these kids had been spooked by someone or something when we seen them in the video riding their bikes as fast as they were going. I don't believe for one minute that they ever went to Meyers Lake on their own, if at all. My heart and prayers go out to their family and loved ones this Christmas! May the Lord keep Lyric and Elizabeth safe in his loving arms. May he shine the light on those responsible for this terrible tragedy so that justice can be served.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have always felt that these kids had been spooked by someone or something when we seen them in the video riding their bikes as fast as they were going. I don't believe for one minute that they ever went to Meyers Lake on their own, if at all. My heart and prayers go out to their family and loved ones this Christmas! May the Lord keep Lyric and Elizabeth safe in his loving arms. May he shine the light on those responsible for this terrible tragedy so that justice can be served.

The only hole in that theory, is they were riding away from their house.

If they were spooked they would be riding to it, in my opinion. The film was taken only a block from Lizzies home.

 

[Snowbunny]

The only hole in that theory, is they were riding away from their house.

If they were spooked they would be riding to it, in my opinion. The film was taken only a block from Lizzies home.

Its possible that whatever may have spooked them was right close to their home which may have sent them in the opposite direction.

 

[otto]

When police dragged in the one and only person of interest to be named in this case (which was later retracted), it was the white van guy seen on camera at Casey's. Was this the Casey's on River Forest Road?

It was. For some reason, police were particularly interested in a white van that was at the gas station at River Forest Road and Gilbert, just East of Meyers Lake. The owner of the van is not a suspect.

 

[otto]

Ok...thinking along these lines...would the ME be able to determine if this WAS an accident IF their remains had degraded to bones? Say the girls were off their bikes and were hit by a vehicle? One could assume you would be able to tell broken bones maybe?


Say someone DID drown them (be it at Meyers Lake or even at 7 bridges) with malicious intent, would LE be able to determine that IF the remains were bones?

Also...maybe it's just me, but if LE felt this was an accident where someone had panicked I feel maybe LE would be more inclined to tell the family that...and even maybe play on the emotions of the perp? Probably not (because it is STILL a crime)...but maybe the perp would be more likely to come forward if LE released a statement such as "it has been determined that the death of Lyric and Elizabeth could be the result of a horrible accident where someone possibly panicked and disposed of their bodies" (or something along these lines).

Now, I don't think this is a case of accident, but if it were I would hope LE would tell the family as much and even maybe make a statement indicating they don't feel this was an intentional murder.:dunno:

Realistically, if someone was driving and hit a child on a bike, how often does that person then collect the bike, the child, a second child, a second bike, stage the bikes in one location and leave the bodies in a secluded spot 20 miles away? That doesn't make sense to me. Usually, if a child is hit by a vehicle while cycling, the child is taken to hospital or it is a hit and run ... I just don't see the "accident" scenario as a possibility.

Meyers Lake is leech infested, so it's not a good choice of lakes for drowning anyone ... as even the person doing the drowning would get a couple of leeches.

If the bikes showed evidence of a car/bike crash, I would expect that police would release that info and ask about possible car/bike crashes that anyone witnessed that day. Abben has said that when he arrived at the scene, the bikes were leaning against the fence.

 

[otto]

For those of us not familiar with the area, could someone please make a little map to show us where this river is, where the Caseys is where white van was seen that was cleared, and how you'd get to this river from Drew and Heather's? I know Otto does wonderful maps and we all greatly appreciate that, Thank You Otto! :great: And just maybe Otto you would do this for us once again...lease:

Also, what is the name of this river and does it lead into or near the river that goes thru Seven Bridges Park?

Happy Holidays to everyone! God Bless You and Your Families.

The river near Meyers Lake does not appear to be the same river as the one in 7 Bridges County Park, but perhaps someone local can answer that better.

This shows the Caseys in Evansdale and the body location in relation to Evansdale. The Caseys near Lafayette is about a block from Heather and Drew's house. The Caseys on River Forest Road is where the white van was seen - excluded as a possible suspect.

This shows times and area between home and bikes

This shows home, bikes and bodies with distances and dashed lines along possible routes. Home and bikes are the bottom two dots.

This shows where the children were found in the 7 Bridges Park. The dotted lines show vehicle access.

This gives more detail about where they were found

 

[NWLady]

Thank you Otto for the maps, that's very helpful, you do a wonderful job!

chelsea6, thank you also for all your input and ideas and maybe you can answer and/or help with if these thoughts I'm now having are even a possibility...Near the car wash you mentioned, where the river dike is, could someone take that river to near or where the bikes were found and then also continue per river to Seven Bridges Park? I ask this for two reasons (and I may be way out of line here, but just brainstorming): The site where the girls bodies/remains were found is very close to the Wapsi River and a boat would have much easier access to this spot than a person would have on foot (based on where LE vehicles are parked in the pictures) And number 2 reason is, I know somewhere along the lines the possibility of boat was mentioned; however, I'm not sure that was ever confirmed and/or ruled out. But if someone could have abducted those girls from that river near the car wash, put their bikes on boat also, floated by Meyers Lake and threw out or gotten rid of bikes and purse and then continued to float on down to where bodies were found. None of this may even be possible but just throwing it out there....

 

[threecrazykids]

Realistically, if someone was driving and hit a child on a bike, how often does that person then collect the bike, the child, a second child, a second bike, stage the bikes in one location and leave the bodies in a secluded spot 20 miles away? That doesn't make sense to me. Usually, if a child is hit by a vehicle while cycling, the child is taken to hospital or it is a hit and run ... I just don't see the "accident" scenario as a possibility.

Meyers Lake is leech infested, so it's not a good choice of lakes for drowning anyone ... as even the person doing the drowning would get a couple of leeches.

If the bikes showed evidence of a car/bike crash, I would expect that police would release that info and ask about possible car/bike crashes that anyone witnessed that day. Abben has said that when he arrived at the scene, the bikes were leaning against the fence.

Oh don't get me wrong...I don't think this was an accident AT ALL. I was more wondering if it was a drowning at 7 bridges would the ME be able to tell?

I don't believe this was an accident. I guess I was just kind of trying to entertain the concept of this not being a homicide.

 

[otto]

Oh don't get me wrong...I don't think this was an accident AT ALL. I was more wondering if it was a drowning at 7 bridges would the ME be able to tell?

I don't believe this was an accident. I guess I was just kind of trying to entertain the concept of this not being a homicide.

I don't think that it will be possible to determine how the children died unless a weapon was used and there is evidence on the skeletal remains. I know that there is some doubt about the condition in which the children were found, but based on what I've read, my understanding is that the children were skeletonized.

I looked at the formula for # of days until skeletonization based on average temperatures in the area. If the children were there from July 13, 2012 until Dec 5, 2012, they were there for 145 days. Skeletonization would have occurred in about 112 days.

 

[otto]

Thank you Otto for the maps, that's very helpful, you do a wonderful job!

chelsea6, thank you also for all your input and ideas and maybe you can answer and/or help with if these thoughts I'm now having are even a possibility...Near the car wash you mentioned, where the river dike is, could someone take that river to near or where the bikes were found and then also continue per river to Seven Bridges Park? I ask this for two reasons (and I may be way out of line here, but just brainstorming): The site where the girls bodies/remains were found is very close to the Wapsi River and a boat would have much easier access to this spot than a person would have on foot (based on where LE vehicles are parked in the pictures) And number 2 reason is, I know somewhere along the lines the possibility of boat was mentioned; however, I'm not sure that was ever confirmed and/or ruled out. But if someone could have abducted those girls from that river near the car wash, put their bikes on boat also, floated by Meyers Lake and threw out or gotten rid of bikes and purse and then continued to float on down to where bodies were found. None of this may even be possible but just throwing it out there....

I think that the problem is getting the girls from Meyers Lake to the Cedar River - as there's a highway between. Also, the drainage pipe has a grate over it, so they didn't go through it. I very much doubt that they went by boat from Meyers Lake, or Cedar River, to 7 Bridge Park via water. The location where the children were found is about 400 feet from vehicle access. They could have been forced to walk the 400 feet, separated by 50 feet (found 50 feet apart), each told that they other was fine, individually murdered, and left there.