IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[borndem]

Let's assume for a minute that the rumor that the girls stopped at the grocery to ask for directions to Meyer's Lake is true.

Chelsea (or any local) -- if you were working at the grocery, how would you send the girls to Meyer's Lake? It seems to me that any adult local would say, "Oh, just hop on the bike path! It goes straight from here to there!"

The bikes were found on the bike path, so, again, assuming that rumor is true, it makes sense that they WERE told to take the path, and that at some point, they were followed to the spot the bikes were found (or abducted along the way and then their bikes were ridden a bit further down the path by the abductor(s). It just occurred to me today for the first time that the bikes were ADULT bikes (at least Lyric's was). So if they were subdued somehow (tazered/handcuffed in a car/chloroformed/locked in a basement), it wouldn't seem out of place at all for an adult male to be riding an adult bike down the path to the spot where the bikes rested.)

So my question is -- WHAT IS BETWEEN THE GROCERY AND THE SPOT THE BIKES WERE FOUND, ALONG THE BIKE PATH?! (Sorry, don't mean to yell. I'm just shocked I didn't think about this before!) Are there any businesses, RSOs, residences of known characters?

We've explored possible city street routes SO many times. But I don't recall reading any local's analysis of what is immediately off the northern part of the bike path.

Hmmmmm.... Jaime -- what food for thought! Thanks -- maybe I'm the only one that did not know of the straight route to the lake, but now I do!

I'm not familiar with the area, but I'm getting better at it; I never realized the bike path went from Lafayette down to the lake, and not far from Brovan as well. If I had gotten an invitation to a gathering at the lake from some cute guy at the grocery or skate park, I would have at least gone down there "for a few minutes -- we won't be that late getting back home if we pedal as fast as we can. C'mon, we gotta go!"

A skate park is on that path..... But yes, as you ask, What else??

 

[tlcya]

Thanks Amandareckonwith for those coloring pages.

They reopened the waterworks, but that is okay. They also help me feel closer to a beautiful girl I will never have the pleasure to know in life.

I think I will say goodnight on that note

 

[georger]

Did I read earlier in the threads that you have some background as a physicist and in anthropology?

yes. retired.

 

[georger]

Somewhere in my posts it posted that a picture of the white coverings on the girls bodies or locations at 7 Bridges. It appeared they layed heads apart or both were headed in opposite directions, if it's a fact that was their bodies laying there. That's why I think a gun or a coordinated effort on two. I think it's most likely one perp though.

Here - best I have.

 

[georger]

Somewhere in my posts it posted that a picture of the white coverings on the girls bodies or locations at 7 Bridges. It appeared they layed heads apart or both were headed in opposite directions, if it's a fact that was their bodies laying there. That's why I think a gun or a coordinated effort on two. I think it's most likely one perp though.

Im guessing about 30ft apart based on the height on one LEO in the photo... note the lengthwise direction and how they lay ... the closest
cover has a bulge in it I think ? Poeple will be parsing these photos - in fact let me
attach a blowup as best I can with what I have to work with - I adjusted contrast
a bit and sharpened L1 out of L5 on the software Im using. Hope this helps.

 

[georger]

I'm curious as to why you think going to 7 Bridges carried any particular risk for the perp.

?

Unless he knows the place is vacant when he goes there with the girls he
takes the risk of running into someone, or someone arriving while he is
there ... only one road in as I understand it ... he's already done one
abduction in broad daylight, why then go to a cul de sac !? Why THIS
place? Just dump the bodies in a ditch or drive to another State or
someplace far-far away ... drive to Lake Michigan! ? Why HERE?

He has boxed himself in when he choses to go to that place. Why even
take the chance?

UNLESS!... the girls knew him and they went with him willingly to 7 Brigdes?
Met him at the grocery (next post below) ? Then there is no risk, just a lot
of explaining to do if he has to take them back to town ... then its not an
abduction but an "outing"!.

 

[georger]

It was on the FB group. Some workers from Fairway (?) Grocery were questioned by the FBI because Lyric and Elizabeth had stopped there to ask directions to the lake. This should be taken as rumor only here on WS, because it is from FB. (But it was very well sourced/verified on FB).

are the girls on the store tape? If the abductor met them at the grocery ... ?

 

[chelsea6]

Let's assume for a minute that the rumor that the girls stopped at the grocery to ask for directions to Meyer's Lake is true.

Chelsea (or any local) -- if you were working at the grocery, how would you send the girls to Meyer's Lake? It seems to me that any adult local would say, "Oh, just hop on the bike path! It goes straight from here to there!"

The bikes were found on the bike path, so, again, assuming that rumor is true, it makes sense that they WERE told to take the path, and that at some point, they were followed to the spot the bikes were found (or abducted along the way and then their bikes were ridden a bit further down the path by the abductor(s). It just occurred to me today for the first time that the bikes were ADULT bikes (at least Lyric's was). So if they were subdued somehow (tazered/handcuffed in a car/chloroformed/locked in a basement), it wouldn't seem out of place at all for an adult male to be riding an adult bike down the path to the spot where the bikes rested.)

So my question is -- WHAT IS BETWEEN THE GROCERY AND THE SPOT THE BIKES WERE FOUND, ALONG THE BIKE PATH?! (Sorry, don't mean to yell. I'm just shocked I didn't think about this before!) Are there any businesses, RSOs, residences of known characters?

We've explored possible city street routes SO many times. But I don't recall reading any local's analysis of what is immediately off the northern part of the bike path.

I've never taken the bike path, all I see when I look over there is trees and bushes so I have no idea where it really starts or ends. Even if I knew where to get onto the bike path, I wouldn't offer directions for it unless the girls had an adult with them, but that's just me.

My directions:
I'd tell the girls to keep going (I'd point, but it's actually S. Evans) straight on this road, past the Police station until you see Gilbert Drive, then turn right.(pointing again.) Keep going, it'll be on your left side.

I'm trying to remember what's on the route.:waitasec: Just a bunch of houses, then the police station I think the skate park is around there somewhere too, not sure. I rarely take that route unless I'm at Fareway and they don't have what I need. Then I'll take that route to get on the interstate to get to Wal-mart in Waterloo.

Good thinking! It never occured to me to look at that area. I don't know if there are any convicted sex offenders living around there. I definitely think we should look at all possibilities.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Unless he knows the place is vacant when he goes there with the girls he
takes the risk of running into someone, or someone arriving while he is
there ... only one road in as I understand it ... he's already done one
abduction in broad daylight, why then go to a cul de sac !? Why THIS
place? Just dump the bodies in a ditch or drive to another State or
someplace far-far away ... drive to Lake Michigan! ? Why HERE?

He has boxed himself in when he choses to go to that place. Why even
take the chance?

UNLESS!... the girls knew him and they went with him willingly to 7 Brigdes?
Met him at the grocery (next post below) ? Then there is no risk, just a lot
of explaining to do if he has to take them back to town ... then its not an
abduction but an "outing"!.

Why 7 Bridges? I suspect that it was a place the perp knew would probably not have any human visitors that day. It is an undeveloped wildlife area, so there are no amenities there, not even a picnic table. There's fishing and hunting... but the Wapsipinicon was at historic lows last summer and the fishing would be non-existant.

Why not keep driving until Lake Michigan? Two reasons, as I see it.

One reason is that the vast majority of perps operate in their own comfort zone, in places they are familiar with that do not feel (to the perp) too close to home.

The second reason is more speculative but I'd be willing to bet it is correct. I don't think the perp had enough time to drive to Lake Michigan and be back in time for... something. I think the perp probably had 2-4 hours in which to commit the crime and then be at home or at work or wherever it was that someone expected him to show up. I think someone was expecting to see the perp that evening and would have asked some uncomfortable questions if he hadn't showed up on time.

I'll go a little further and say that whoever it was that the perp felt accountable to probably thinks they know what the perp was doing that Friday afternoon and it wasn't abducting two girls. I think there is someone out there who would be suspicious if they knew that there were 2-4 hours of unaccounted for time. Whoever that person is, they hold a crucial bit of information and they probably have not the faintest idea that they know it.

Makes me wish I could go door to door over about 5 counties and ask people "did you have plans to meet with anyone in the evening of 13 July? do you know how that person spent their afternoon?"

 

[Marilynilpa]

I feel so terrible for Wylma - I truly believe she will feel Lyric's loss more than anyone else:

Lyric lived with her grandmother Wylma Cook for much of her short life. Reminders of the girl are everywhere in Cook’s modest two-story home on Waterloo’s east side, from her art projects on the fridge to stuffed animals in the bedroom the two shared.

For Cook, night time is the hardest. That’s when she and Lyric would sit in bed, hold hands and talk. Lyric’s stuffed dog, Max, still rests on her side of the bed.

Cook said Lyric’s custom-made urn will bear a phrase the two used to share each night before falling asleep: “I love you, good night.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121229/NEWS/312290063/?odyssey=nav|head

 

[Reverie]

I've never heard of a kidnapping victim, message or not, that ended up in Disneyland. It's a difficult case to face head on because it involves such a dangerous man.

There was a reference early on in this case about a distant relative who had allegedly abducted his own children and was later apprehended in Florida. The rumor was that he had taken them to Disney World.

I was never able to confirm this.

 

[threecrazykids]

are the girls on the store tape? If the abductor met them at the grocery ... ?

Sadly...no. They pulled the tapes but there were no cameras in the area where the girls were. (They had spoke to employees out on a smoke break).

 

[threecrazykids]

Why 7 Bridges? I suspect that it was a place the perp knew would probably not have any human visitors that day. It is an undeveloped wildlife area, so there are no amenities there, not even a picnic table. There's fishing and hunting... but the Wapsipinicon was at historic lows last summer and the fishing would be non-existant.

Why not keep driving until Lake Michigan? Two reasons, as I see it.

One reason is that the vast majority of perps operate in their own comfort zone, in places they are familiar with that do not feel (to the perp) too close to home.

The second reason is more speculative but I'd be willing to bet it is correct. I don't think the perp had enough time to drive to Lake Michigan and be back in time for... something. I think the perp probably had 2-4 hours in which to commit the crime and then be at home or at work or wherever it was that someone expected him to show up. I think someone was expecting to see the perp that evening and would have asked some uncomfortable questions if he hadn't showed up on time.

I'll go a little further and say that whoever it was that the perp felt accountable to probably thinks they know what the perp was doing that Friday afternoon and it wasn't abducting two girls. I think there is someone out there who would be suspicious if they knew that there were 2-4 hours of unaccounted for time. Whoever that person is, they hold a crucial bit of information and they probably have not the faintest idea that they know it.

Makes me wish I could go door to door over about 5 counties and ask people "did you have plans to meet with anyone in the evening of 13 July? do you know how that person spent their afternoon?"

I wish they would have found the girls bodies earlier...then I think this would really help! But, with so much time passed I don't think anyone would remember that now...it's been too long.

I also wonder about who may know something and aren't telling LE. I think about a mother who is wondering about her son's involvement. Would every mother have the integrity Austin Sigg's mom did to turn it in? Sadly...I don't believe so.

Or a sibling who was home with their brother who were gone for a few hours that day and the parents don't know.

There are so many scenarios but obviously nothing that is jumping out at someone as suspicious. Or, they DO know and simply aren't going to tell LE because the killer is a loved family member.:furious:

 

[hollyblue]

How awful. And who would look at a 13 year old as a lethal threat?

Even in this day and age of forensics at the molecular level, the most common way crimes are solved is still the same as it was in 1912 and 1812: someone talks where LE hears about it. Modern forensics can prove a theory to a much greater degree than back then but it's old fashioned talk between humans that points the way.

LE released the knowledge of a smashed banana at the crime scene, and Eric's mother knew he hated bananas. Eric had admitted seeing the boy and even questioned LE about it, etc, but no one suspected him.....except the mother..with the knowledge. That's how he was caught. IIRC, Eric is now trying to get released and is in his twenties. ETA: His thirties.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

It was on the FB group. Some workers from Fairway (?) Grocery were questioned by the FBI because Lyric and Elizabeth had stopped there to ask directions to the lake. This should be taken as rumor only here on WS, because it is from FB. (But it was very well sourced/verified on FB).

We have to call it a rumor because it came from FB. I had the link originally but the original FB page has since been combined with another page and you can't access the original.

Anyway...a gal whose son works at Fareway confirmed that her son had been questioned by LE twice regarding the girls stopping at Fareway and asking for directions to the lake.

She went into detail about her son being questioned and the other gal who was with her son also confirmed what she'd said.

I don't believe it to be made up. However...to make a long story short, yes it's rumor because of where it derived, however I'm considering it fact that the girls stopped at Fareway and asked for directions to the lake the day they went missing.

Thank you guys so much! Well, if that is true, I may need to re-think a few things. I understand why it is considered "rumor", but I will now come up with an alternate theory to include this piece of info. Really changes the way I look at things.

 

[hollyblue]

I can recall the talk of the girls and the Fareway, but don't remember a time. Does any one recall what time they were seen at the Fareway in asking directions? TIA

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I can recall the talk of the girls and the Fareway, but don't remember a time. Does any one recall what time they were seen at the Fareway in asking directions? TIA

Good question! And the location of the Fareway in relation to where the girls were last seen on video. I was wondering if they would have asked for directions before or after the video of them riding past the auction place. TIA!

 

[cindersoot]

I would like to comment on the skate park. If the girls were abducted at the skate park, someone would of seen something because it is really out in the open and there are houses all around it.

 

[cindersoot]

I've never taken the bike path, all I see when I look over there is trees and bushes so I have no idea where it really starts or ends. Even if I knew where to get onto the bike path, I wouldn't offer directions for it unless the girls had an adult with them, but that's just me.

My directions:
I'd tell the girls to keep going (I'd point, but it's actually S. Evans) straight on this road, past the Police station until you see Gilbert Drive, then turn right.(pointing again.) Keep going, it'll be on your left side.

I'm trying to remember what's on the route.:waitasec: Just a bunch of houses, then the police station I think the skate park is around there somewhere too, not sure. I rarely take that route unless I'm at Fareway and they don't have what I need. Then I'll take that route to get on the interstate to get to Wal-mart in Waterloo.

Good thinking! It never occured to me to look at that area. I don't know if there are any convicted sex offenders living around there. I definitely think we should look at all possibilities.

In August of this year I went to Evansdale and rode my bike from Collins home to the lake where the bikes were found. It took me less than 10 minutes and I'm middle aged. The bike path has trees, bushes, and houses along it's path. You also cross many intersections of residental streets. My husband followed me in our vehicle on another street and saw me many times. I only saw one person on the path, a woman walking her dog and it was the weekend.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=LCM

I am not proficient at manuevering aound the linked sight and was unable to locate an existing group devoted to the memory of Lyric so I created one for us.

ETA to light your own candle in Lyric's honor simply click on an unlit one and post your thougts about her or for her.

Thanks so much for setting this up. I have used it a couple times and something I really like is that it says something like "stay here as long as you wish to think about why you're here" (huge paraphrase obviously). Me personally, I often need the reminder to pause. (Actually I have a little stop sign at my bench that says "stop and think" lol.) Thank you again.