IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[GrainneDhu]

If the children were not lured to the lake, isn't it an incredible coincidence that just at the moment that two children break all the rules and ride to the leech infested drainage pipe gate at Meyers Lake, a murderer just happens to intercept them?

It is an incredible coincidence but not an unheard-of one. For instance, Etan Patz was abducted the very first time he walked to the bus stop alone. The first time their mothers allowed them to go to the state fair without adult supervision, Charlotte Kinsey and Cinda Pallett were abducted together.

There are some statements that suggest that this was not Elizabeth's first trip to the park unbeknownst to her own parents.

The reason parents have rules about how far from home a child is allowed to go, etc, is because as adults, parents know that bad things can happen. And sadly, something bad did happen to Elizabeth and Lyric.

Sociopaths can be very charming and very charismatic.

These are a few of the characteristics of sociopaths:

• Grandiose self image – They might see themselves as someone who is superior to others and sometimes even experiences delusions. A sociopath might see themselves as a fitting ruler of a country or even the world, but might also have delusional beliefs such as seeing themselves as a God or having super powers

• Charming – While the sociopath is unable to fully understand the emotions of others, they are capable but rather highly adept at mimicking them and might appear to be charming and normal at first

• High IQ – Often sociopaths will exhibit a high IQ which they can use to manipulate and plan

• Manipulative – Sociopaths use their superficial charm and high IQ to manipulate others to get their ends, and their lack of empathy allows them to do this with no sense of guilt or remorse

• Secretive – Has little need for others and is highly secretive in their actions meaning

• Sexually deviant – The lack of remorse, guilt or emotional attachments means that the sociopath is happy to have affairs and to engage in questionable sexual activity without questioning their desires

• Sensitive to criticism – That said, like all narcissists, the sociopath will desire the approval of others and will be highly sensitive to criticisms. They often feel they deserve adulation and admiration of the world and might feel victimized
...

In all cases though the psychopath will appear highly intelligent, charming and charismatic to talk to and it is only careful guardedness that can uncover their true motivations.

...

The psychopath will be more likely to construct a complex scheme or plan and to carry it out, whereas the sociopath is more driven by impulsivity.


http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15850/1/Characteristics-of-a-Sociopath.html

I am aware that sociopaths/psychopaths can be intelligent, charming and charismatic. Not all of them are. For instance, Gary Ridgway was the opposite of all that. Robert Pickton was the opposite of all that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Traffic Accident: someone accidentally hits a child on a bike. What do they normally do? Call paramedics and police. Is it really possible that someone accidentally hit one of the children with a vehicle and then decided to grab the injured child, the damaged bike, the other child and the other bike, throw them into the vehicle, which may be a car, suddenly decide to take their bikes to the SE tip of Meyers Lake, just happen to have materials for restraining two children, then decide to drive 20 miles to another secluded area and simply murder the two children? That just doesn't make sense to me. Escalating a traffic accident to a double kidnapping and murder makes no sense for any reason.

Retaliation: What are the chances that someone wanted to retaliate against Drew and Heather? Slim to none, I would think. What are the chances that someone wanted to retaliate against Dan? Perhaps some possibility. Dan has two children. One lived with him at his mom's place or was spending time there during the summer, the other child lived with her grandmother. Which is the more likely child to abduct if child abduction and murder was a realistic method of retaliation? Why take the target child and another child if retaliation is the objective - why not wait until the target child is alone? Why ensure that no one finds the children for months if retaliation is the message?

I agree with the above.

So far as retaliation is concerned, the drug world tends to be very direct. If someone wanted retaliation against Dan, most likely they would have put a gun behind his ear and shot him execution style. Plain and simple.

There are a few exceptions but they stand out because they are exceptions (man bites dog stories).

 

[passionflower]

Is there any mention of Lyrics service today?
I know media was forbidden but I wonder if anyone was interviewed.
Did they have pictures? Music?

 

[borndem]

Traffic Accident: someone accidentally hits a child on a bike. What do they normally do? Call paramedics and police. Is it really possible that someone accidentally hit one of the children with a vehicle and then decided to grab the injured child, the damaged bike, the other child and the other bike, throw them into the vehicle, which may be a car, suddenly decide to take their bikes to the SE tip of Meyers Lake, just happen to have materials for restraining two children, then decide to drive 20 miles to another secluded area and simply murder the two children? That just doesn't make sense to me. Escalating a traffic accident to a double kidnapping and murder makes no sense for any reason.

Retaliation: What are the chances that someone wanted to retaliate against Drew and Heather? Slim to none, I would think. What are the chances that someone wanted to retaliate against Dan? Perhaps some possibility. Dan has two children. One lived with him at his mom's place or was spending time there during the summer, the other child lived with her grandmother. Which is the more likely child to abduct if child abduction and murder was a realistic method of retaliation? Why take the target child and another child if retaliation is the objective - why not wait until the target child is alone? Why ensure that no one finds the children for months if retaliation is the message?

Ouch.

 

[Darcyline]

I can usually come up with a visual of who I think committed a crime, but in this one I am drawing a blank. I just don't know what happened that day and all of your theories seem plausible. Maybe that says something in itself.

I do believe extraordinary (and horrible) coincidences can happen so it is possible that the one day they decide to disobey and go to the lake a monster also happened to be there and see an opportunity.

I don't really see accident or retaliation though. I am just on the fence between older/younger, sociopath or not, two perps or one, made it to the lake or not, sexual or just plain sadistic, someone who knew them or not, etc.

 

[otto]

It is an incredible coincidence but not an unheard-of one. For instance, Etan Patz was abducted the very first time he walked to the bus stop alone. The first time their mothers allowed them to go to the state fair without adult supervision, Charlotte Kinsey and Cinda Pallett were abducted together.

There are some statements that suggest that this was not Elizabeth's first trip to the park unbeknownst to her own parents.

The reason parents have rules about how far from home a child is allowed to go, etc, is because as adults, parents know that bad things can happen. And sadly, something bad did happen to Elizabeth and Lyric.



I am aware that sociopaths/psychopaths can be intelligent, charming and charismatic. Not all of them are. For instance, Gary Ridgway was the opposite of all that. Robert Pickton was the opposite of all that.

An abduction at a crowded State Fair, or a crowded street, is an entirely different situation than a secluded location at the SE tip of a lake.

"A sociopath is likely to have been a 'problem child' and exhibited difficult behavior when younger. As they grow older they are likely to be highly successful which is a result of their willingness to get one over on their competition and colleagues, a desire and belief in success, and lack of risk aversion. Thus they are likely to be found in positions as stock brokers, as CEOs or even as politicians. Many despotic rulers such as Gaddafi could be described as sociopaths.

Alternatively a sociopath might be likely to live on the fringes of society having little interest in people. They could be seen as eccentric and will most likely be independently wealthy. In other words they will either conquer the system or avoid it entirely. They will of course have few close friends and are more likely to make contacts with those they can use, or those they see as equals and that they can admire. They will tend to be cold and manipulative in relationships and potentially emotionally abusive though this might not necessarily be purposefully vindictive.

In all cases though the psychopath will appear highly intelligent, charming and charismatic to talk to and it is only careful guardedness that can uncover their true motivations"

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15850/1/Characteristics-of-a-Sociopath.html

 

[borndem]

Yes, indeed, Darcyline, a monster.

 

[Darcyline]

Yes, indeed, Darcyline, a monster.

I am feeling a similar nervousness as I did with Jessica Ridgeway before an arrest is made. Someone is out there hurting children-they need to be taken out of society now and placed behind bars forever. I wish I didn't have this sick feeling that LE has no idea who the monster is.

 

[foxbluff]

Wow... simply wow...

Am I really the only one here who is thinking of sweet, innocent, little Lyric today?!?!?

I have never been as disappointed in my fellow posters here than I am today...

 

[Marilynilpa]

Today my thoughts are with Dan, Misty, Dillin, Wylma and everyone else who loved Lyric.

As I've stated before, I feel particularly sad for Wylma. It appears she had a very special relationship with Lyric. Her grief must be overwhelming.

And I worry about Misty - I feel that she may be the least capable of dealing with the terrible tragedy of Lyric's death.

I hope today's celebration of Lyric's life brings the entire family some peace.

Today is about you, sweet Lyric.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...3x403/599200_553112761371183_1305209413_n.jpg

I'm quoting myself for foxbluff's benefit - there are many of us who have thought of Lyric today.

 

[chelsea6]

seems to me it was somehow connected by either familiarity with one or both of the girls, or with someone in the girls' families -- some type of retaliation or personal animosity or similar. If it was just knowing someone in the family, would it include sexual assault or just murder for "getting even" for some bad business deal or a work-related perceived slight? (I feel limited in discussing this because I just don't have a "feel" for this kind of thing -- the murder of children...

Was this a lark gone wrong? Did the perp intend to just spend time with the girls, or just follow them to scare them for kicks with no physical harm intended, and something went wrong & one of them was hurt or killed accidentally & the perp had a record & was afraid of going back to jail? Was it a traffic accident and the perp had no license or was a past DUI and panicked?

Or, or, or... Arrrrgggggghhhhh!!!

Now, I'm thinking back to..hmmm.. :waitasec: I have so many scenerio's of what "could" have happened. I'm gonna change things to murders that "did" happen in this area that I knew the killers in some way.

The thing they all had in common were that they made sure they were alone with the person, and had at least 10 minutes that they knew they could let their compulsions or rage build up to see where it leads. The murderers I knew used places they were comfortable with. Such as their apartment, a secluded gravel road, even the victims home when they were alone together. They were used to being alone in these places with the victim, so they weren't worried anyone would come by and see them. Not for at least 10 minutes, anyway.

These guys were all of different intelligences, but they were similar because they all were used to getting away with little things and big things. Not all the time, but usually. Either way, if they got caught they really wouldn't give a hoot what anybody thought of them.

I don't know if this helped, but it's something totally different we haven't looked at.

 

[foxbluff]

I'm quoting myself for foxbluff's benefit - there are many of us who have thought of Lyric today.

Yes, my VA neighbor, I saw/enjoyed your earlier post here. My problem is the lack of follow-up here...

 

[JaimeInLA]

A while back, someone posted about the Sunshine Laws in Iowa. Can someone refresh my memory on that? Will the medical examiner's results eventually be released by law like they were in Florida/Caylee Anthony? If not, can a reporter make a freedom of information act request for them?

 

[otto]

Yes, my VA neighbor, I saw/enjoyed your earlier post here. My problem is the lack of follow-up here...

The media is not covering this funeral. I'm not sure what can be said. I suppose that Misty is out of the halfway house for the day. Wylma, Lyric's custodial parent, is probably finding some level of closure.

"Residents in Evansdale are looking for closure as the second of two eastern Iowa two girls found dead in a wooded area is laid to rest.

Mourners were saying their final goodbyes Saturday at a funeral service for Lyric Cook."

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/f...cle_778aa34a-51fd-11e2-a70c-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Tennlyn]

I don't think so either. And maybe I feel that way because I just don't like to think that there are TWO people running around off-kilter enough to murder two little girls. I also think if there were two...one would have had a crisis of conscience by now.

That might be, but alternatively I think given their apparent success, they might well have egged each other on and tried this again already. Part of that is because, if I picture a pair, I picture a couple of younger guys who would be more prone to taking risks, inflating their own sense of success when LE didn't catch them right away, etc. kwim?

The fact that so far there hasn't been another attempt makes me think it is apt to be one perp that is somewhat cautious and deliberate.

 

[tlcya]

Wow... simply wow...

Am I really the only one here who is thinking of sweet, innocent, little Lyric today?!?!?

I have never been as disappointed in my fellow posters here than I am today...

I cannot speak for other posters fox, but Lyric is very much in my thoughts today. I have made a conscious decision not to discuss Lyric's service because I do not wish to inadvertently reopen the discussion of people's opinions about her parents, what they should or should not be doing, how they should or should not be acting, etc.

I do this out of respect for their grief.

Any discussion I am having about Lyric's service is happening in closed FB groups.

I feel cerain that many feel as I do and am frankly a bit hurt that you would think otherwise.

 

[foxbluff]

The media is not covering this funeral. I'm not sure what can be said. I suppose that Misty is out of the halfway house for the day. Wylma, Lyric's custodial parent, is probably finding some level of closure.

"Residents in Evansdale are looking for closure as the second of two eastern Iowa two girls found dead in a wooded area is laid to rest.

Mourners were saying their final goodbyes Saturday at a funeral service for Lyric Cook."

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/f...cle_778aa34a-51fd-11e2-a70c-0019bb2963f4.html

OMG... and wow... did you and anybody really read that link ?!?

 

[Darcyline]

I think of Lyric and Elizabeth every day. They have seemed to want privacy to say goodbye to their girls so I have not been posting about their life celebrations or funerals.

 

[otto]

OMG... and wow... did you and anybody really read that link ?!?

I did ... is there something wrong in the link?

 

[passionflower]

Yes, indeed, Darcyline, a monster.

and what kind of monster could kill 2 sweet little girls????:furious: