IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

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I haven't seen anything that says they got out of the car to look. It all sounds like they were driving around, and didn't realize part of the lake wasn't visible from the street.

Tammy claims she jumped out and started asking random people (per the above transcript link).

This was at 2:45ish. Now, whether or not Grandma or Heather or anyone else looking BEFORE 2:45ish got out is unknown (as far as I know anyway).
All that was stated was that they'd checked all the parks and places they'd be so Tammy said "take me to the lake...Meyer's lake".
 
I haven't seen anything that says they got out of the car to look. It all sounds like they were driving around, and didn't realize part of the lake wasn't visible from the street.

Tammy claimed she got out and started asking "Random people"

---------
TAMMY B, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: That is correct. I know Dan and I know D (ph) very well. Dan does not have a job right now. He is staying with his mother, Vickie (ph), in Waterloo. He doesn`t even have a car. He knew absolutely nothing about this.

When Mom -- I had met Mom at her house because we had had some plans. She had originally left. When Misty showed up to pick up Lyric, and Mom said, you know, The girls have been off and it`s been a little bit too long, but you know, you guys need to go find your kids, Tammy and I have some other things that we`re doing, and Tammy`s at the house.

So Mom came and got me. We got a phone call back from Drew (ph), Elizabeth`s father, saying, You guys need to get back here and help. So me and Mom jumped in the car, and right away we came back. Kelly -- we picked up Kelly, the 12-year-old son, and we started going to all these places that they`d already checked.

I said immediately to my mom, I said, Take me to Meyers Lake, take me to Meyers Lake. This is approximately a quarter to 2:00 when I asked -- or a quarter to 3:00 when I asked Mom to take me to Meyers Lake.

We pulled into Meyers Lake, right about where Jim and I are standing. And I got up and just jumped out and started asking random people, Have you seen two little girls, one on a mountain bike, you know, gave the complete descriptions of them. And a man -- they have his name. I don`t know who he is. He said to me, Yes, I seen two little girls going west on the bike trail.

And as you can see, it`s a small lake. It`s not a huge lake. So the bike trail wraps around and then comes back east, and that`s where the bikes were, in fact, found.

So when Misty had -- when they`d found the bikes and called us and told us, Misty was standing here with us, Misty immediately called Dan and Dan called his mother. She was at work. She took work off, and she hurried up and picked Dan and D up and came down here and met us to start the search and all of that for the kids, yes

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html
 
As soon as I heard about the two fisherman, I came to the same conclusion. It seems logical, and would explain why TG' sighting was never mentioned by LE.

I assume that TGs description of the bikes doesn't match so LE dismissed it and never used it in their timeline. The perp obviously knows the bikes werent at the lake at 12:27.

I am glad that we have been informed by TG of the two people fishing since we had never heard that before and the thought of two different bikes onthe trail seemed quite unlikely prior to this new information. Now it seems logical that TG simply saw two bikes completely unrelated to the case.
 
Hope this is better. : ) From the Courier:

Snipped: "Abben also gave new details as to times and locations the girls were last seen July 13.

Deputies said the girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake. Their bikes and a purse were later found on a trial behind the lake. Authorities are asking that anyone in the area of Arbutus Avenue and Gilbert Drive that day notify law enforcement."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html

And for those of you who like info "straight from the horse's mouth", here is Abben's statement:

“Today marks two months since the disappearance of 11-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins,” Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, said in a statement Thursday. “Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-missing-2-months-authorities-plead-for-help/

ETA: Sorry, ShyViolet, I see you posted this earlier.
 
I assume that TGs description of the bikes doesn't match so LE dismissed it and never used it in their timeline. The perp obviously knows the bikes werent at the lake at 12:27.

I am glad that we have been informed by TG of the two people fishing since we had never heard that before and the thought of two different bikes onthe trail seemed quite unlikely prior to this new information. Now it seems logical that TG simply saw two bikes completely unrelated to the case.

TG stated that the two fishermen were at the NW corner of the lake.
Weren't the bikes found near the SE 'corner'? To me, that says those bikes did not belong to the two fishermen.

Post #1631 in the last thread.
 
I always like to hear your input, but you do have a tendency to present your opinions as fact. There are plenty of reasons to be confused by the moving timeline and to discount others here is condescending. I know you have strong opinions and I even know what they are, but bottom line, you do not actually know if your assumptions are correct. As for the little stab at those of us who are finding this frustrating and are considering the possibility that are contributions will not help; we are not giving up on the girls. The girls are dead and there is no changing that. They do deserve justice and others deserve protection, but is it really wrong that some of us think that it may not come via this site? We want to participate and hopefully help, but we also need to be able to feel free to express our frustrations every now and then without someone accusing us of giving up on the girls.

I do apologise, and I mean that. I don't realise how I sound sometimes. :(

Perhaps you need to view my comments in context.

I have been on this case, every single day, since July 13, along with a handful of other dedicated sleuthers.

There have been many incidences of - Witness bashing, LE bashing, Witness sleuthing, General frustration, Inaccuracies stated as fact. This is normal and part of the process.

I have largely sat by and said nothing, while feeling the frustration you speak of, almost daily, for a lot of reasons. I cannot post my opinions freely on this one as it would have me on time out.

The following are all posts I made wayyyy back in July, sbm for brevity and relevance.

SapphireSteel

I'm not very good with time, I'm always late or early, so I decided a while ago that the FBI have probably thought of everything in that regard, they're kinda smart like that.

That was me politely defending the FBI's 8 minute timeline, which at that stage was being doubted and sleuthed.

8 minutes for the girls to get from the cctv, to their bikes being seen at the lake.

It is absolutely doable.

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.

If the girls were intercepted by car shortly after the cctv picked them up, there's plenty of time to get the bikes dumped by 12.20.
That was me on the timing and the cctv, the black part is msm. The sightings fit the Police Timeline...they always have done.

07-29-2012, 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by (redacted)
From what everyone keeps saying is that this town is small. So why not comb the whole town? If my kid was missing i would be all over this.


They have!!!!!!!

Sorry I'm standing up for LE here. Please do some msm reading before you throw out statements like that. The searches are alive and well and still ongoing.

.

Me standing up for LE...way back in JULY. :what:

07-28-2012, 08:59 AM
SapphireSteel
What if the girls were accosted by someone they knew, in a car, between the store and the lake.
What if the person was someone they knew and trusted, who had actually planned this abduction, for whatever motive...What if the person told the girls there had been a bad accident, gramma was in hospital, they had to come quick, chuck your bikes in the truck/boot/leave them here with fred and joe they will take them home for you...Take them back to the offenders house, closeby, why an accomplice dumped the bikes at a pre-arranged location that was considered to be perfect to stage an abduction.

I just cannot get past the timeline. TG is a credible witness, he is adamant he saw the bikes at 12.20, it has been repeated several times by msm so I'm taking it. It had to be this way, simply by the speed it took place. Assuming of course TG was not mistaken. It also means more than one abductor.

The above was me formulating my theory out loud, and it has been set in stone ever since.

Now I've just read that TG is "mistaken" and "LE have no idea", within the last day. :(

Even though SS has so generously given of his time, and got verified, still he is doubted. Even though the 8 minutes from Cornbelt Auctions to the Lake is in MSM as the Police timeline, and completely achievable within an average travel speed by kids on bikes, as has also been hashed over here.

Yeah, I know frustration. Six months of it. Sorry if I let it show...but as you said, we should all feel free to express them, every now and then.

:seeya:

BTW - reading my posts, I can't honestly see where I "present opinions as fact" anywhere, so perhaps you could point an example out to me so I can see where I do it. :dunno:
 
Tammy claims she jumped out and started asking random people (per the above transcript link).

This was at 2:45ish. Now, whether or not Grandma or Heather or anyone else looking BEFORE 2:45ish got out is unknown (as far as I know anyway).
All that was stated was that they'd checked all the parks and places they'd be so Tammy said "take me to the lake...Meyer's lake".

Gramma and Kelly went out searching at 12.30.
 
TG stated that the two fishermen were at the NW corner of the lake.
Weren't the bikes found near the SE 'corner'? To me, that says those bikes did not belong to the two fishermen.

Post #1631 in the last thread.

Yes.

He said he quickly looked around for the bikes owners and didn't see them.

The fisher people were clearly not the bike owners, they were too far away.
 
Yes.

He said he quickly looked around for the bikes owners and didn't see them.

The fisher people were clearly not the bike owners, they were too far away.

Unless, like some fisherman, if they don't get a bite where they are, they move down a ways until they find a good spot. JMO
 
TG saw two bikes on the trail, but this is a different location from where the bikes were eventually found in the search.

Do we actually 'know' they were in a different location when TG saw them? Do we have a link telling exactly where LE found them? I am really confused if they were found anywhere near the NW corner. Even if they were found in a different location than TG saw them, they were still on the South side of the lake.

I suppose it's possible that two fishermen dropped their bikes in the middle of the path and walked around to the NW corner to fish, but I don't think it's likely. JMO
 
TG stated that the two fishermen were at the NW corner of the lake.
Weren't the bikes found near the SE 'corner'? To me, that says those bikes did not belong to the two fishermen.

Post #1631 in the last thread.

When we go fishing we park and start fishing then work our way around the pond or lake until we find where the fish are biting. I doubt that fisherman would move their bikes with them as they moved around the lake. JMO I don't think the bikes proximity to the fishermen discount them being their bikes.
 
I'd put money on 3. Leaving them near the lake means at least boats out on the water, probably divers and maybe a draining in case of drowning. Meanwhile in the opposite direction...

However, the three things you mentioned were not LE resources. The kayaks on the lake were volunteer firefighters. The divers were from the Black Hawk Sheriff's department and would not ordinarily be involved in investigating an abduction, so they were not taking away from the investigation. Draining the lake also involved personnel that would not otherwise have been involved in the investigation.

Even the FBI divers and sidescan radar operators didn't take away from the investigation because they would not have been involved in it otherwise.

While the lake was the big showy media piece, the investigation was proceeding in other locations. There were locals posting that there were traffic checks, continued questioning of potential witnesses, all the things that LE would have been doing had the lake not been involved at all.
 
Saying that TGs sighting is unverified by LE is simply stating it has not been verified.

The LE have not told us those bikes belong to the girls.

SS stated that LE did not even tell him if the bikes matched.

They could have been 2 random bikes put there by anybody.

I am not claiming to say that SS is lying about seeing bikes.

Only stating that they have not been verified.

----

So person or people drops the bikes off in the middle of the trail unseen. A vehicle goes into maiden lane unheard and unseen (if there was a vehicle in the grassy area TG would have seen it when he passed it, yes?)

What in your theory makes it so that TGs claim of the bikes at 12:20 is more believable than 12:23 at Brovan and 12:30-1:00 Gilbert?
 
BTW - reading my posts, I can't honestly see where I "present opinions as fact" anywhere, so perhaps you could point an example out to me so I can see where I do it. :dunno:

Snipped by me.

IMO, here is a example.

Yes.

He said he quickly looked around for the bikes owners and didn't see them.

The fisher people were clearly not the bike owners, they were too far away.

I don't think anyone can know that for a fact. JMO
 
Hope this is better. : ) From the Courier:

Snipped: "Abben also gave new details as to times and locations the girls were last seen July 13.

Deputies said the girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake. Their bikes and a purse were later found on a trial behind the lake. Authorities are asking that anyone in the area of Arbutus Avenue and Gilbert Drive that day notify law enforcement."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html



There were spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive, how long does it take to get from Gilbert Drive to Meyers Lake?
 
O/T...Could someone please tell me how to find Waterloo arrest records (if possible) for about July 26, 2012 thru July 29, 2012? I tried Black Hawk Co. site and Waterloo police site but can't get nothing back that far? Any suggestions?
 
Yes.

He said he quickly looked around for the bikes owners and didn't see them.

The fisher people were clearly not the bike owners, they were too far away.

Using the logic that the bikes didn't belong to the fishers then makes it impossible for them the be the girls bikes because they werent seen at all and thereforre too far away for the bikes to be the girls.

They could have been the girls bikes or they could have been the fishermens bikes but the bikes' location is irrelevant as to whose bikes they were since no one was standing there claiming them.
 
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