IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[SapphireSteel]

I was only answering a question.

I will stop this practice as I notice it is where I most often am misunderstood.

The fishermans bikes being left in the exact same spot as the girls bikes were later found, would not be likely at all.

Also, we have the purse, and the scent.

I don't know whether the bikes are the girls, or staged, or planted, or the fishermans...I never said I did. I have expressed no opinion on the fishermen owning bikes, or dumping them, except that I find it unlikely. The lake perimeter is quite large so the statistical chances of the fishermen dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as the girls later did, are almost too small to calculate. One in a 100 million perhaps.

:cow:

 

[JaimeInLA]

As soon as I heard about the two fisherman, I came to the same conclusion. It seems logical, and would explain why TG' sighting was never mentioned by LE.

What are the chances that 2 bikes would be discarded by 2 fisherman on the exact same day and in the exact same spot that 2 girls got kidnapped and discarded their bikes? TG says the bikes were at the gate, which was closed. That is on the south side of the lake. He says the fisherman were on the NW side of the lake. Why would they discard their bikes, and leave them laying across the path, on the South side? Why not just park them where they were fishing?

 

[Marilynilpa]

What about the purse?

I don't want to get into a prolonged conversation about what TG saw and whose bikes they could or could not have been. I have no way of knowing if TG saw the girls' bikes, or two other bikes and better yet, I don't think TG knows. In answer to a question from me, he stated LE never told him whether or not the bikes he saw were Lyric and Lizzie's bikes.

And IIRC, TG never claimed to see a purse.

So I'm not sure why you are asking this question about the purse.

ETA: I see you are finished with this topic, so please ignore my post.

 

[callyn]

I just cannot see two fishermen dumping their bikes right across the trail and then leaving them there to go around the lake. I suppose they could have been a couple of jerks though :crazy:

 

[iamnotagolem]

I was only answering a question.

I will stop this practice as I notice it is where I most often am misunderstood.

The fishermans bikes being left in the exact same spot as the girls bikes were later found, would not be likely at all.

Also, we have the purse, and the scent.



:cow:

SBM but the bikes were not found in the same place that TG saw them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've wondered that but how strange for the girls bikes to actually show up there later. I don't understand why the two fisherman have never come forward. the girls abduction was on our local news & I don't live in the same state. there is no way they didn't know that something happened that day at the same lake they were fishing at. Maybe they didn't see anything but you would still think they would have contacted the local police dept.

We don't know that the two people fishing didn't come forward to local LE. Many witnesses don't contact the media and LE usually does not reveal their witness list.

 

[Marilynilpa]

What are the chances that 2 bikes would be discarded by 2 fisherman on the exact same day and in the exact same spot that 2 girls got kidnapped and discarded their bikes? TG says the bikes were at the gate, which was closed. That is on the south side of the lake. He says the fisherman were on the NW side of the lake. Why would they discard their bikes, and leave them laying across the path, on the South side? Why not just park them where they were fishing?

I'm not saying the bikes were those of the fishermen. I was simply stating that it's possible, IMO. Maybe my dad was an exception, but when he went fishing he'd go to the "perfect" spot. Shortly thereafter, he'd realize his spot wasn't so perfect after all. He'd take his fishing pole, walk down a ways, fish a little, walk some more, etc. It was a smaller lake, and sometimes he'd wind up walking almost around it in an effort to find fish.

So given my experience, it is possible that two fishermen put their bikes down in one location but wound up fishing somewhere else. JMO

I feel that since two bikes were seen, and two fishermen were seen, the possibility exists that these bikes belonged to them.

 

[24Roses]

Tammy's guy said he saw the girls at 2:30 according to this transcript.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

Snipped
And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30."

So...we have a jogger who saw the bikes ALONE at 2:00 and we have another person who Tammy spoke with who saw the girls riding the trail at approx 30 mins later.

So...maybe the girls were there the entire time from the time they were seen on CCTV.

Mr. Gamerdinger said he saw bikes and no girls at his sighting...then again at 2, a jogger claims HE saw the bikes and no girls...and then at 2:30 this witness Tammy spoke with claims to have seen the girls.

OK...gonna throw this out there as yet ANOTHER possible scenario to chew on. Where could the 2 girls have been at the lake that wasn't out in the open for someone to be "hanging" with them?

Bathroom? Wooded area? Pavilion? Went for a ride in a vehicle for a bit?

Maybe the girls weren't even abducted and gone until later on in the afternoon. It is fully possible for the family to have driven by the lake and not seen the girls.

So...let's ASSUME that the girls were there at 2:30 and this witness was correct.

Now what theories open up?
ETA: Tammy states she was there at a quarter to 3.
"and this was at about a quarter to 3 -- and keep in mind the last they were seen was at 11:30 a.m., when they told mom they were going on the bike ride. So that is the last time they were for sure seen. And now, it`s going on to -- it`s getting close to being a quarter to 3."

So even from the time that the witness claims he saw them riding...Tammy and crew were there at approx 2:45ish so again, within 15 mins they aren't there...but 15 mins opens up enough time for someone to abduct someone and be gone.

I do think this is doubtful, but maybe it is & that is why they were talking to the man in the white van seen at Caseys?

 

[Squeeze]

I was only answering a question.

I will stop this practice as I notice it is where I most often am misunderstood.

The fishermans bikes being left in the exact same spot as the girls bikes were later found, would not be likely at all.

Also, we have the purse, and the scent.

I don't know whether the bikes are the girls, or staged, or planted, or the fishermans...I never said I did. I have expressed no opinion on the fishermen owning bikes, or dumping them, except that I find it unlikely. The lake perimeter is quite large so the statistical chances of the fishermen dumping their bikes in the exact same spot as the girls later did, are almost too small to calculate. One in a 100 million perhaps.

:cow:

BBM

I understand that the gate was unlocked but closed at the time. Whether it was open or not, if kids knew that it was unlocked, it could have been an "attractive nuisance", and therefore maybe some other kids had checked it out earlier in the day, prior to the girls' bikes being found there.

Don't want to prolong any timeline/bikes/fisherman discussion, just stating my opinion.

And that's all I got to say about that.

 

[Marilynilpa]

SBM but the bikes were not found in the same place that TG saw them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my recollection, too, but I don't feel like searching for a link.

 

[SapphireSteel]

There were spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive, how long does it take to get from Gilbert Drive to Meyers Lake?

A couple of minutes.

The distance between the cctv and the lake is 1.5 miles.

The average speed of a child cyclist under 13 is 8.9 mph.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1067763/

If they can travel 9 miles an hour, at recreational speed, 1.5 miles will only take them...um..a few minutes depending how fast they go. (not so good at maths).

So it's easily doable, in fact the times fit perfectly for an instant, unseen ambush and snatch. Especially if it was well-planned.

:cow:

 

[JaimeInLA]

Gramma and Kelly went out searching at 12.30.

Tammy says that Wylma waited to search until Misty showed up to pick up Lyric at 2pm. Tammy says Wylma never alerted Misty.

Misty and Wylma both say that Wylma phoned Misty and Misty left work early and then they went to look. Misty in her own car and Wylma/Kelly in Wylma's car.

I don't think they searched as early as 12:30. Who would have watched the younger kids? What time did Drew arrive back home?

 

[carbuff]

Tammy claims she jumped out and started asking random people (per the above transcript link).

This was at 2:45ish. Now, whether or not Grandma or Heather or anyone else looking BEFORE 2:45ish got out is unknown (as far as I know anyway).
All that was stated was that they'd checked all the parks and places they'd be so Tammy said "take me to the lake...Meyer's lake".

She doesn't say she went around looking for traces of the girls. She might have, and if she did, and didn't see the bikes, then that becomes an issue. But it sounds to me like she was standing near the car asking people who went past whether they had seen the girls.

No offense to Tammy, but she doesn't always seem to use the English language with care and precision...

 

[threecrazykids]

I assume that TGs description of the bikes doesn't match so LE dismissed it and never used it in their timeline. The perp obviously knows the bikes werent at the lake at 12:27.

I am glad that we have been informed by TG of the two people fishing since we had never heard that before and the thought of two different bikes onthe trail seemed quite unlikely prior to this new information. Now it seems logical that TG simply saw two bikes completely unrelated to the case.

Ok...but if 2 people were fishing on the lake how did they get the boat there? On the 2 bikes? :floorlaugh:

Or they took off on their bikes to leave the boat just float around in the lake?
:floorlaugh:

I know it's not funny...but for some reason 2 people on bikes carrying a boat is cracking me up.

The joke is probably on me...but I'm assuming the 2 people fishing were in a boat, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Squeeze]

O/T...Could someone please tell me how to find Waterloo arrest records (if possible) for about July 26, 2012 thru July 29, 2012? I tried Black Hawk Co. site and Waterloo police site but can't get nothing back that far? Any suggestions?

The only one I know about is the log on WaterlooPolice.com, that has a sort of rolling 7-10 day log. If you find an archive, let us know!

 

[carbuff]

Ok...but if 2 people were fishing on the lake how did they get the boat there? On the 2 bikes? :floorlaugh:

Or they took off on their bikes to leave the boat just float around in the lake?
:floorlaugh:

I know it's not funny...but for some reason 2 people on bikes carrying a boat is cracking me up.

The joke is probably on me...but I'm assuming the 2 people fishing were in a boat, maybe I'm wrong.

I presumed they were standing on the shore. If they're in a boat, the whole scenario changes, and I will be laughing right along with you

 

[callyn]

SBM but the bikes were not found in the same place that TG saw them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Would someone post a link for the information that the bikes were finally discovered in a different place than where TG saw them? I know it was discussed in the past but I don't recall where that came from. tia

 

[JaimeInLA]

SBM but the bikes were not found in the same place that TG saw them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The bikes were found exactly where TG saw them. He posted here over the weekend that they were "at the gate" when he swerved around them, and that the gate was closed. He said this was not the "people" gate closer to Maiden Lane, it was the "gate by the rocks where people fish." That is the exact spot where the bikes were found by the searchers.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Did you not notice the phrase "he said"?

I was speaking of what SS said...not my own opinion.

It clearly was not obvious to me that you were directly quoting him. I did notice your first sentence said "he said", but the second sentence sounded to me like you were making a statement.

I'm sorry I didn't realize it was a quote, rather than just a statement about what he said.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Would someone post a link for the information that the bikes were finally discovered in a different place than where TG saw them? I know it was discussed in the past but I don't recall where that came from. tia

They were found in the same spot. In the past, we assumed it was a different spot, based on the photo of TG talking to investigators. However, in just the past few days here on WS, Otto asked TG where he saw the bikes, and he said it was not where he was photographed. It was at the gate, exactly where they were found later that day. If you search for SierraShelby's posts, you can read it from the horse's mouth.

(LOL! See what I did there?!)
:floorlaugh: