IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[cindersoot]

What if you were a construction worker? (taking a late lunch, leaving early, etc)

I guess anythings possible, but I just don't see it. jmo

 

[hollyblue]

Bringing some links and posts containing excellent maps forward for us.
Well, apparently the maps themselves didn't come forward.

Anyway, when I saw TT's map, it struck me that anyone in the parking lot area has a clear view to the possible abduction site of the girls and the position of their bikes. I guess I have always assumed the site was hidden by the island from the front of the park. The island is a lot further away from the site than I thought. I guess zooming in causes pictures to have a distortion in the actual view.

Also looking at HB's bing map, is the interstate elevated so someone could walk under it anywhere other than where the exits are located?

ETA - I found that clicking on the blue box next to the poster's name carries you back to that post.
ETA - I didn't mean to slight Otto and his maps which are also excellent. I just didn't find his post fast enough.

Had to choose bike for mode of transportation to show the location. River Rd and the Cedar Valley Nature Trail both go under 380. If you place the little man on 380 in this vicinity you can plainly see the road/bike path underneath.

http://goo.gl/maps/Nz6Iy

 

[Squeeze]

What if you were a construction worker? (taking a late lunch, leaving early, etc)

If the construction worker happened to have their vehicle right there, they would have still had to get away quickly. Not very likely right there with the construction. Also the trucks were parked south of the lanes of traffic, not between the traffic and trail/lake, so they would need to take or carry the girls through traffic to their vehicle. Someone might have remembered that.....

 

[Squeeze]

This is why is is got to be a local.

Absolutely. Gave me a whole new perspective, actually being there.

 

[Squeeze]

Either a local, or someone who has spent time in the area. Maybe someone who has friends or family in the area and spent vacation time with them?

I hope that LE have been interviewing RSOs from the Waverly and Denver areas.

 

[chelsea6]

.

I will be surprised if there were sexual assaults on the girls.

I also think LE needs to reconsider releasing some sort of additional information to assist with finding out who did this. That is IF they have anything to release. The longer they wait, the less likely people are going to come forward saying they remember with 100% certainty something that happened that day. People forget the small details that they would have remembered within the first few days/weeks. It's been 6 months already since the girls were taken.

I don't think LE has someone who's already in jail on other charges who they think is responsible for this.

I think if LE had enough to charge someone they would...but I don't think they do. I think, just like with the discovery of the body...it will be sheer luck IF they find out who did this to these poor girls.

I know others will disagree and think I'm 100% wrong on all my theories. And that's ok. We all have our own theories and with what we DO know, I think all opinions are valid right now.:great:

:waitasec:


I don't have faith in the tip line anymore. How long ago was it you all asked me to call them and alert them to a person that may be a good person to question about being a possible accomplice in grabbing the girls. He also may have heard something from who did this, or knows a sex offender that did this. I called the tip line back then, and I see nothing in his language, facebook entries.. nothing that he has been contacted at all.

I am thinking the police have their own thoughts on who did this, and they are only acting on information if it pertains to people that match with their man.

I don't believe in the "No stone left unturned" statement in regards to this investigation. I feel they honestly think they know who did it, and if the tips involve anyone not in their theory, forget it. It would be a waste of their time to think of anyone else, they KNOW who did it. That's why we aren't hearing anything.

I think they see he is already in jail anyway, and they are just watching him. :jail:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't think you, me or anyone else on here are 100% sure about being wrong or right on any of their theories. It could be ANY of them, a mixture of any them, or none of them we don't know. :waitasec:


I don't have faith in the tip line anymore. How long ago was it you all asked me to call them and alert them to a person that may be a good person to question about being a possible accomplice in grabbing the girls. He also may have heard something from who did this, or knows a sex offender that did this. I called the tip line back then, and I see nothing in his language, facebook entries.. nothing that he has been contacted at all.

I am thinking the police have their own thoughts on who did this, and they are only acting on information if it pertains to people that match with their man.

I don't believe in the "No stone left unturned" statement in regards to this investigation. I feel they honestly think they know who did it, and if the tips involve anyone not in their theory, forget it. It would be a waste of their time to think of anyone else, they KNOW who did it. That's why we aren't hearing anything.

I think they see he is already in jail anyway, and they are just watching him. :jail:

BBM

Do you have someone in mind, or are you just speaking in general terms?

I've felt for a while that LE might have a suspect in mind, but not enough evidence to file charges. JMO. Once all forensic testing is complete, perhaps an arrest will be made.

 

[hollyblue]

I am checking various sites for info on child molestation and getting a wide swath of info and opinions. Some of which maybe BS to profit off the never ending battle and our fears. A few do mention the "whys", but they are scientific studies.

Here's a site I thought we all could gain a little knowledge from since any info from MSM or LE on the case is quite.

http://www.crime-safety-security.com/

 

[chelsea6]

BBM

Do you have someone in mind, or are you just speaking in general terms?

I've felt for a while that LE might have a suspect in mind, but not enough evidence to file charges. JMO. Once all forensic testing is complete, perhaps an arrest will be made.

Someone in mind the police looked at from the getgo. Yes i agree completely.

 

[NWLady]

My thoughts/opinions/gut feelings are....
I believe there were 2 perps, both males, probably in their 30s. I think they were both well known to Lyric, Elizabeth too, but Lyric more so. I feel Lyric was the target. I feel Lyric was told in advance by one of the perps to meet them somewhere at a certain time that day, for whatever reason they mave have given her, such as we or I will take you for ice cream, take you for a ride, take you to the lake swimming, or whatever it may have been. Why do I think Lyric was the target, for a couple reasons...1) Lyric more than likely had witnessed and or been the victim of many things such as drug use/abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, domestic abuse, something of the like. 2) If Lyric would have been abducted by herself, I think it may have made it way more obvious of who the perps were, so I truly believe Elizabeth was a victim of circumstance.
Why did these perps do this? I feel they benefited in more than one way (at least in their sick, criminal minds anyway) They were both at the time of the abduction (and probably still) facing rather extensive prison time. This abduction not only eliminated a very important part of history and their past – Lyric – but also extended the amount of free time that they had, and also they really had/have nothing to lose, as the perps end results will still be the same (no matter how many innocent lives they take in the meantime)...but they have enjoyed the extra free time for now.
I do strongly feel there are others who know who did this to these two innocent little girls but they fear for their lives and others around them and therefore will not come forward
Now I will get ready to hide behind brick wall because I'm sure there are at least a few who will pick my theories/opinions/thoughts to pieces, piece by piece, but it is ONLY my theory, my feelings, my thoughts

 

[Fukiyama]

ETA - I found that clicking on the blue box next to the poster's name carries you back to that post.

It pays to click on things that stand out from the background. That's usually why they stand out. Even just holding your pointer over it, it says what it does.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I hope that LE have been interviewing RSOs from the Waverly and Denver areas.

I bet they are.

Finding the bodies at 7 Bridges probably opened up a whole new pool of suspects.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you for the articles Marilyn, but I'm not quite sure I can fully agree with the first....and have a few questions about their findings. This is not "at" you, just for the discussion. :seeya: I plan to go back and read the sources they listed to see what specific group stated this...and if they have updated themselves in the past 3 years.

Quote:
The majority are not exclusively attracted to children, have adult emotional relationships, and have not molested multiple child victims.

1. The article doesn't go on to say why the majority still do it if they aren't attracted to them. According to this we should be way more concerned about uncle Barney and other family and friends and forget the stranger danger. They also neglect to say "healthy" adult emotional relationships. This group may be full of manipulating emotional, mental, financial or physical abusers..?

2. They have not molested mutiple child victims? So they have only molested one child...and all the research saying child molesters cannot be rehibilitated are incorrect; along with all the reasoning behind the mandated registration of such majorities. ???

BBM -- That is what was said by the child safety program when my boys were in school. They told us that the vast majority of offenders don't offend again, they don't escalate, they can be helped by various counselling and psychotherapy programs, and they don't pose a danger to society at large.

The big problem is that there's no way to predict whether a particular individual is in that very small percentage.

But all this was from several years ago and I don't know what recent research, if any, has found.

 

[GrainneDhu]

:waitasec:


I don't have faith in the tip line anymore. How long ago was it you all asked me to call them and alert them to a person that may be a good person to question about being a possible accomplice in grabbing the girls. He also may have heard something from who did this, or knows a sex offender that did this. I called the tip line back then, and I see nothing in his language, facebook entries.. nothing that he has been contacted at all.

I am thinking the police have their own thoughts on who did this, and they are only acting on information if it pertains to people that match with their man.

I don't believe in the "No stone left unturned" statement in regards to this investigation. I feel they honestly think they know who did it, and if the tips involve anyone not in their theory, forget it. It would be a waste of their time to think of anyone else, they KNOW who did it. That's why we aren't hearing anything.

I think they see he is already in jail anyway, and they are just watching him. :jail:

Is it possible he was already checked out months ago and has some sort of ironclad alibi? For instance, he was checked in at work from noon until 5 pm on 13 July and his co-workers that day all say he was present and accounted for the entire day.

 

[carbuff]

:waitasec:


I don't have faith in the tip line anymore. How long ago was it you all asked me to call them and alert them to a person that may be a good person to question about being a possible accomplice in grabbing the girls. He also may have heard something from who did this, or knows a sex offender that did this. I called the tip line back then, and I see nothing in his language, facebook entries.. nothing that he has been contacted at all.

I am thinking the police have their own thoughts on who did this, and they are only acting on information if it pertains to people that match with their man.

I don't believe in the "No stone left unturned" statement in regards to this investigation. I feel they honestly think they know who did it, and if the tips involve anyone not in their theory, forget it. It would be a waste of their time to think of anyone else, they KNOW who did it. That's why we aren't hearing anything.

I think they see he is already in jail anyway, and they are just watching him. :jail:

If I had been contacted by police about a murder, I certainly wouldn't be posting it in my FB or letting anybody know what was going on. Not if I was guilty, anyway.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM -- That is what was said by the child safety program when my boys were in school. They told us that the vast majority of offenders don't offend again, they don't escalate, they can be helped by various counselling and psychotherapy programs, and they don't pose a danger to society at large.

The big problem is that there's no way to predict whether a particular individual is in that very small percentage.

But all this was from several years ago and I don't know what recent research, if any, has found.

I am not an expert in the field but I do keep up with it for reasons of my own.

What you just wrote is correct according to the most up to date research. In particular, the younger the offender at the time of the crime, the more likely it is that he will be successfully rehabilitated.

Sadly, successful rehabilitation includes having the opportunity to hold down whatever the individual thinks of as a good job and the sex offender registries make that very difficult. Anything that increases life stresses on the individual makes it more likely that individual will relapse, whether you're talking about child molestation, alcohol or meth use.

The big problem is, as you say, figuring out which perps will truly be rehabilitated and which will be repeat offenders.

 

[24Roses]

What if you were a construction worker? (taking a late lunch, leaving early, etc)

IIRC the construction workers were one of the first groups of people to be interviewed.

 

[SpringThyme]

I think the girls' killer could easily be someone like Fred Coffey, who was convicted of killing a young girl and a suspect in other murders. He was a serial predator, and likely left a trail of victims in areas familiar to him. http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16875&page=2


I think looking at violent and sex offenders who have ties to the area though they may not live there now is an avenue.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I am not an expert in the field but I do keep up with it for reasons of my own.

What you just wrote is correct according to the most up to date research. In particular, the younger the offender at the time of the crime, the more likely it is that he will be successfully rehabilitated.

Sadly, successful rehabilitation includes having the opportunity to hold down whatever the individual thinks of as a good job and the sex offender registries make that very difficult. Anything that increases life stresses on the individual makes it more likely that individual will relapse, whether you're talking about child molestation, alcohol or meth use.

The big problem is, as you say, figuring out which perps will truly be rehabilitated and which will be repeat offenders.

The problem is that if we decide that the offender is not going to re-offend, we are risking the life of every child he has access to for the rest of his life.

The offender would not only need to be capable of never re-offending, he would have to be very personally motivated to change, not because being a "sex offender" keeps him from holding certain jobs or social stigma, but because the offender himself is repulsed and horrified at the idea of anyone abusing a child.

Even then, is it worth gambling the life of a child that this man will change? No way! IMO, he gave up any chance of ever being trusted as a free man when he had sex on a child. Too bad for him, lock him up and throw away the key, that's the only choice which doesn't gamble with innocent children's lives.

Personally, I don't believe that the studies which seem to show that some can be rehabilitated are accurate. So very many sexual assaults are never reported, much less successfully prosecuted. This is especially true of assaults on children which go on for years. Families expect everyone to cover or lie to protect the pervert. Kids who grow up with this are brainwashed in to believing it was their fault. If it is never prosecuted, the pervert looks good on paper; no repeat offenses.

MOO

 

[JaimeInLA]

Does anyone remember how long it was between the discovery of Caylee Anthony's body and Casey's arrest? I seem to recall it was quite some time. They arrested her on the check fraud charge and recorded her jail visits for a few months, right?