IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #31

[otto]

Again, we have no way of knowing what all tips were called in, and everything that people reported that they saw. What I do know, is that it would be a huge mistake for LE to not consider something because it may not match entirely with what we THINK are other pieces of the puzzle. Maybe there was an ice cream truck heard near the Collins home. Maybe the girls met someone at the ice cream truck that enticed them away to another area, such as the lake.

So I sent the tip in, and hypothetically of course, LE contacts Peppys (I'm sure they have already done this prior to my tip), the Peppys employee maybe saw them, OR saw someone lurking, or parked, or whatever. Or maybe they noticed something on a different day that they now think could be suspicious.

I'm not saying that the ice cream truck was involved, and I cant say how and why the bikes ended up on the trail. I'm just saying consider the possibilities. It could lead down an entirely different path that leads to the killer.

Police have placed the cycling children right next to Meyers Lake between 12:30-1:00, so it seems like the children cycled to the lake where their bikes were found.

 

[otto]

This is my thoughts exactly. I don't think the person driving the ice cream van would have done anything but it may have been the reason why the kids went out the door in the middle of pour juice for themselves and God only knows who they might have met up with along the way. It would be a reason why one of the girls took her purse with her and they were flying down the street as it appeared they were doing on the video. I've been trying to think of any possible scenario why those kids would leave the house in the middle of pouring juice for themselves and I know for a fact as a child when I heard the ice cream van coming around in our neighborhood I'd stop what I was doing and take off looking for the ice cream man.

BBM

What ice cream truck?
Has an ice cream truck ever been mentioned in connection with this case?

Did I miss it? Is there a link?

 

[Bootsctr]

The ice cream truck came through our neighborhood when my children were young, but I haven't heard it in the last few years. I always went with the children if they were allowed to have something. It seems to me that even if Lyric and Elizabeth chased an ice cream truck all the way to Arbutus, wouldn't someone on Lake Avenue also have noticed the ice cream truck music?

Regarding the case of Mikelle, what seems unusual is that the two children were going to buy ice cream on a cold day ... and getting a coat was more important than ice cream. That's unusual ... in my opinion.

I don't think it would be unusual for a child to turn around to get a coat before buying ice cream. I eat ice cream in the winter, but I will wear a jacket or turn the heat up if I eat it.

I think that perhaps a particularly cruel ice cream truck guy could make children chase him quite a ways before stopping. The longer they chased him, the more tired they would become and less able to put up a good struggle. . . Food for thought.

 

[watcher9]

You haven't missed anything.
No ice cream truck that we know of.
We are throwing out ideas since we don't have any new clues.
Sometimes when someone mentions something, someone else may get an idea from it. Who knows what may come from it?

 

[otto]

But we don't know that they haven't....

So ... we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a suspicious ice cream truck, therefore it's possible that an ice cream truck is involved in the disappearance?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a grandmother with pink hair carrying a green suitcase, does that mean it's possible that the pink haired grandmother with the green suitcase is involved in the disappearance?

With this line of reasoning, aren't we including everyone as a suspect regardless of known facts?

 

[24Roses]

I saw a miniature rose bush today called "Baby Elizabeth" While I know she wasn't a baby, it made me think of Elizabeth. So, I bought it!

 

[Bootsctr]

BBM

What ice cream truck?
Has an ice cream truck ever been mentioned in connection with this case?

Did I miss it? Is there a link?

I have not seen a link regarding an ice cream in connection with this case. I'm stumped. I have always felt that LE does not want to scare the person off who did this. If they can keep him "confined" to Evansdale in a way, perhaps he will commit another crime such as exposing himself to a child, or even a young woman. Maybe it's just now ripe for people to begin to think of the ice cream man. . . Weather is warming up and before we know it school will be out and the ice cream man could be back.

 

[Considering]

So ... we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a suspicious ice cream truck, therefore it's possible that an ice cream truck is involved in the disappearance?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a grandmother with pink hair carrying a green suitcase, does that mean it's possible that the pink haired grandmother with the green suitcase is involved in the disappearance?

With this line of reasoning, aren't we including everyone as a suspect regardless of known facts?

By George, you may be on to something, Otto! Check out this photo. The grandmother with pink hair is even getting into a white van...or is that an ice cream truck?

 

[Bootsctr]

I think it would be a lot easier to believe it is a local because then we hope we would have a better chance of seeing him/them caught. I tend to think more out of the box.

I keep thinking about the case from Oct 2012 where the 11 yo girl from Cody, Wy was taken at gunpoint by Jesse Paul Speer when he approached a group of three girls about his missing puppy in broad daylight right near the library and the police station. He took her up into the mountains where he assaulted her before finally releasing her in the dark. She was able to make it down to a road where some hunters leaving for the night came upon her and rescued her.

Speer, a photographer with some Colorado ties, lived some 200 miles away in Manhattan Montana (near Bowman) from the site where the girl in Cody WY was taken. He had no ties to the girls or to Cody. He was said to have traveled all over through the national forests and parks with his truck that was full of pictures of naked young girls. He had a photography business with published works. I seem to remember seeing some of his pictures of lonely trees and maybe bridges in desolate places? I don't know if LE is working on identifying the photos or even the locations of some of his photo shots. What if he had pictures of one of the seven bridges?

As far as I'm concerned, he could actually be a suspect in this case. I would like to know where he was back in July. What if he was going to take their pictures as a surprise for their parents? Not local and no ties. There are probably a lot more like him roaming around with no ties to the area they may strike.

Sorry to go on with so much detail, but I couldn't find a link to her thread. Once WS removes an identity and moves or changes the thread category, it's sometimes hard to search for the case. I sure need to catch back up on this case.
Here it is! I finally found it by going through google.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187167&page=1

Yep! This guy raised the hairs on my neck and this young lady was found alive only by a miracle. God bless those hunters!!! I would love to know if he had been questioned in regards to Lyric and Elizabeth! Good post! GREAT SUSPECT!

 

[Bootsctr]

By George, you may be on to something, Otto! Check out this photo. The grandmother with pink hair is even getting into a white van...or is that an ice cream truck?

View attachment 32825

:floorlaugh:

 

[roseofsharon]

So ... we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a suspicious ice cream truck, therefore it's possible that an ice cream truck is involved in the disappearance?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a grandmother with pink hair carrying a green suitcase, does that mean it's possible that the pink haired grandmother with the green suitcase is involved in the disappearance?

With this line of reasoning, aren't we including everyone as a suspect regardless of known facts?

:floorlaugh: - Otto, you have a way with words!!

I'm getting caught up and want to thank everyone for the great posts.

 

[Snowbunny]

BBM

What ice cream truck?
Has an ice cream truck ever been mentioned in connection with this case?

Did I miss it? Is there a link?

There has never been mention of an ice cream van, but there have been mention of a white van. I was asking the locals if there was an ice cream van that drove through the neighborhoods in the summer there because those two girls were in the middle of pour juice when they went out the door and I was trying to think of things that would draw those two away from what they were doing to hop on their bikes and take off like that. As a child if we heard the ice cream van we would be gone out the door chasing after it. I was just trying to think out of the box of other scenarios here that may have happened and I thought I had made that clear. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think it would be a lot easier to believe it is a local because then we hope we would have a better chance of seeing him/them caught. I tend to think more out of the box.

I keep thinking about the case from Oct 2012 where the 11 yo girl from Cody, Wy was taken at gunpoint by Jesse Paul Speer when he approached a group of three girls about his missing puppy in broad daylight right near the library and the police station. He took her up into the mountains where he assaulted her before finally releasing her in the dark. She was able to make it down to a road where some hunters leaving for the night came upon her and rescued her.
Speer, a photographer with some Colorado ties, lived some 200 miles away in Manhattan Montana (near Bowman) from the site where the girl in Cody WY was taken. He had no ties to the girls or to Cody. He was said to have traveled all over through the national forests and parks with his truck that was full of pictures of naked young girls. He had a photography business with published works. I seem to remember seeing some of his pictures of lonely trees and maybe bridges in desolate places? I don't know if LE is working on identifying the photos or even the locations of some of his photo shots. What if he had pictures of one of the seven bridges?

As far as I'm concerned, he could actually be a suspect in this case. I would like to know where he was back in July. What if he was going to take their pictures as a surprise for their parents? Not local and no ties. There are probably a lot more like him roaming around with no ties to the area they may strike.

Sorry to go on with so much detail, but I couldn't find a link to her thread. Once WS removes an identity and moves or changes the thread category, it's sometimes hard to search for the case. I sure need to catch back up on this case.
Here it is! I finally found it by going through google.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187167&page=1

The murders could have been committed much later than we expected, if this guy felt safe at 7-Bridges until the beginning of deer hunting season (September). I would love to see a map of the areas this guy has traveled. . . .

 

[Bootsctr]

The murders could have been committed much later than we expected, if this guy felt safe at 7-Bridges until the beginning of deer hunting season (September). I would love to see a map of the areas this guy has traveled. . . .

ETA: I would suspect he has a picture of a tree discussed here in his collection IF he was in the Evansdale area in and about the time of July 13, 2012. I hope someone who knows the area is allowed to look at the pictures. How far would Iowa be in line to look at the pictures? Any other states requesting the pictures?

 

[alliemay]

There isn't much to talk about with no new information so I think we are all just thinking of things that could have happened because we have no evidence. I was sleuthing a SRO that was a dead end. First I searched houses for sale near lakes or bodies of water. Found one on storm lake, the video was strange in that it had a run down swing set in the yard and something that looked like a doll house, several old bikes next to the shed, a bike on the back porch, none of these bikes looked new, they looked liked junk bikes for parts. Next the video of the inside of the house looked lived in but I found it strange because (from what I could see) there was nothing to indicate any children lived in the house. On top of that the background music was like music you would hear at a funeral parlor. From there I checked to see who had lived in this house for sale. Spoko gives you past and present owners. From that list I googled a first initial and last name. Ok, so now I have one that is a registered sex offender. He is on "ice", and I also notice his name on a class action suit at a factory that might be close to the area. I send a request to the site asking to be updated if there is any change in his status. There was, he was deported. So ok, that one did not pan out as a possible suspect so I move on......to ice cream trucks, someone with a boat who hides the body till he gets to seven bridges, someone who has been eying the day care center when the girls ride by, someone who abused animals, etc etc etc. None of us know so our minds wander to what could have happened. In either case if just one person posts something at least once a day these girls names stay at the top of the list. It keeps the thread going. Many threads tend to get lost on here, there are many to choose from and there are many new ones a person can move on to. Hopefully we can somehow keep this one going until they find who did this.

 

[Indy Anna]

There has never been mention of an ice cream van, but there have been mention of a white van. I was asking the locals if there was an ice cream van that drove through the neighborhoods in the summer there because those two girls were in the middle of pour juice when they went out the door and I was trying to think of things that would draw those two away from what they were doing to hop on their bikes and take off like that. As a child if we heard the ice cream van we would be gone out the door chasing after it. I was just trying to think out of the box of other scenarios here that may have happened and I thought I had made that clear. Sorry for the confusion.

If Lyric and Elizabeth were lured outside by something they heard, another possibility would be a book-mobile. A book-mobile goes through the area where I live in the summertime - or did in the past; I don't remember hearing it last summer, but maybe this has just been a long winter for me. Lol.

The book-mobile that came through here would play music, with voices and sound effects - e.g., the sound of someone knocking on a door and saying, "hello." In other words, it was very distinctive so that the neighborhood children would know it was the book-mobile.

If Lyric and Elizabeth were chasing an ice cream truck or a book-mobile that they heard in the distance, and it moved along before they reached it, they could have gone quite a ways on their bikes before realizing how far they'd traveled from home. When they started to head back home, they may have met up with the wrong person who lives in the area.

But, it's also possible that they were victimized by an ice cream vendor, book-mobile driver, etc. Often predators do work around children. After the person has engaged the child in conversation, even briefly, the child may no longer regard the person as a stranger. He becomes a quick friend; someone the child feels s/he can trust. Perhaps there is an ice cream vendor, book-mobile driver, or someone of that nature who lives near the lake.

RE a book-mobile driver: I don't know if Elizabeth would have need to take her purse in that case? Not sure if a book-mobile rents out books, or if a library card is necessary, supposing the local library sponsors a book-mobile.

 

[Squeeze]

If Lyric and Elizabeth were lured outside by something they heard, another possibility would be a book-mobile. A book-mobile goes through the area where I live in the summertime - or did in the past; I don't remember hearing it last summer, but maybe this has just been a long winter for me. Lol.

The book-mobile that came through here would play music, with voices and sound effects - e.g., the sound of someone knocking on a door and saying, "hello." In other words, it was very distinctive so that the neighborhood children would know it was the book-mobile.

If Lyric and Elizabeth were chasing an ice cream truck or a book-mobile that they heard in the distance, and it moved along before they reached it, they could have gone quite a ways on their bikes before realizing how far they'd traveled from home. When they started to head back home, they may have met up with the wrong person who lives in the area.

But, it's also possible that they were victimized by an ice cream vendor, book-mobile driver, etc. Often predators do work around children. After the person has engaged the child in conversation, even briefly, the child may no longer regard the person as a stranger. He becomes a quick friend; someone the child feels s/he can trust. Perhaps there is an ice cream vendor, book-mobile driver, or someone of that nature who lives near the lake.

RE a book-mobile driver: I don't know if Elizabeth would have need to take her purse in that case? Not sure if a book-mobile rents out books, or if a library card is necessary, supposing the local library sponsors a book-mobile.

When I was a kid, we did have been mobiles that traveled around Waterloo. They have been gone for years, but the library now has a van, Traveling Tales I believe it is called. I think it goes to day cares, etc.

 

[Squeeze]

BBM

What ice cream truck?
Has an ice cream truck ever been mentioned in connection with this case?

Did I miss it? Is there a link?

Link please?? IIRC, they were asking for witness who have seen them in the area. I don't remember that they definitively conformed that they were spotted there.

Edited - sorry, quoted the wrong post.... I meant the one about them being spotted cycling near the lake.

 

[Squeeze]

I don't think it would be unusual for a child to turn around to get a coat before buying ice cream. I eat ice cream in the winter, but I will wear a jacket or turn the heat up if I eat it.

I think that perhaps a particularly cruel ice cream truck guy could make children chase him quite a ways before stopping. The longer they chased him, the more tired they would become and less able to put up a good struggle. . . Food for thought.

Well put!!

 

[Squeeze]

So ... we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a suspicious ice cream truck, therefore it's possible that an ice cream truck is involved in the disappearance?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but if we don't know whether someone reported a tip about a grandmother with pink hair carrying a green suitcase, does that mean it's possible that the pink haired grandmother with the green suitcase is involved in the disappearance?

With this line of reasoning, aren't we including everyone as a suspect regardless of known facts?

Well, isn't everybody a suspect???? Just trying to think of someone who may have been in the area, might be a potential witness, potential perp.... possible explanation as to why they left in such a hurry. Every scenario is worth discussing. Just because it hasn't been reported - that we know of - does not mean its not a plausable explanation. Obviously we, and LE, haven't thought of everything, since the case has not been solved. Although I hate the expression "think outside the box", our thoughts can't be confined to what has been released to us. Clearly the killer isn't inside that "box". We need to remove the box....

If we don't discuss our theories (and stay within the TOS, ahem....) what is the point of the forum???