IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

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http://www.kcrg.com/home/top-9/Troo...s-Investigators-Money-Refunded-217647541.html

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — A state trooper who was ticketed for speeding while driving Gov. Terry Branstad says he doesn't want the former criminal investigator who complained about the fast SUV to pay the fine.

Larry Hedlund on Friday paid the $181.50 ticket issued to Steve Lawrence, the trooper who was driving Branstad and Lt. Gov. Kim Reynolds in the governor's SUV on April 26. The vehicle was clocked by a deputy traveling 84 mph in a 65 mph zone on Highway 20.
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Each of these examples (including Klunder) are of predators who either lured children, or hunted them actively.

Our predator didn't hunt or lure anyone.

Our predator sat and waited for some victims to stroll into his trap, like a spider with a fly.

This crime and the timelines only makes sense if the perp was already in place, waiting.

How did he know L&L were going to be along any minute?

This wasn't a random trap, IMO. Whoever it was knew the girls were going to be on that path at that time.

Answer the question "how did he know?" and you've got your perp.

:twocents: :moo: :cow:
 
SapphireSteel said:
Each of these examples (including Klunder) are of predators who either lured children, or hunted them actively.

Our predator didn't hunt or lure anyone.

Our predator sat and waited for some victims to stroll into his trap, like a spider with a fly.

This crime and the timelines only makes sense if the perp was already in place, waiting.

How did he know L&L were going to be along any minute?

This wasn't a random trap, IMO. Whoever it was knew the girls were going to be on that path at that time.

Answer the question "how did he know?" and you've got your perp.

:twocents: :moo: :cow:
Click to expand...

What if the perp(s) had DM's court date wrong and had it pre-planned to meet the girls there that day to kidnap and hold them to keep Dan from singing. After finding out that Dan dropped his plea deal the girls were no longer asset but now liability so they were murdered and discarded.
IMO
 
SapphireSteel said:
Each of these examples (including Klunder) are of predators who either lured children, or hunted them actively.

Our predator didn't hunt or lure anyone.

Our predator sat and waited for some victims to stroll into his trap, like a spider with a fly.

This crime and the timelines only makes sense if the perp was already in place, waiting.

How did he know L&L were going to be along any minute?

This wasn't a random trap, IMO. Whoever it was knew the girls were going to be on that path at that time.

Answer the question "how did he know?" and you've got your perp.

:twocents: :moo: :cow:
Click to expand...

(Bolded by SS)

Well, no. I don't see any reason why a predator couldn't have been stalking them all day.

I also don't see any reason why a predator couldn't have been prowling the area just on the hope he would run into a likely victim, and they just happened to have been the ones he spotted. Many predators are opportunists. They don't plan their crime, they just see a chance and take it.

It could be a trap, as you say. I don't see any evidence to eliminate that possibility. But the evidence doesn't eliminate any of the other options.
 
Grainne Dhu said:
BBM

Respectfully, can you provide a link?

Everything I've read says just the opposite: that the incidence of child abductions has either held steady or has gone down over the last 50 years, depending on how abduction is defined.

The big difference seems to be in the ease of access to media coverage. Fifty years ago, the only people likely to read a paper like The Waterloo/Cedar Falls Courier would have been people living in the area. If the WCFC submitted a story to the AP or UP and some other paper was having a slow day it might have been read by a few people outside the area.

Only really sensationalistic cases would have gotten national coverage.

Today, anyone with an internet connection anywhere in the world that can read English could follow Elizabeth and Lyric's case in the WCFC.
Click to expand...

I've heard the same thing. In fact, there was recently a report released. If I weren't so lazy I'd find a link....
 
carbuff said:
(Bolded by SS)

Well, no. I don't see any reason why a predator couldn't have been stalking them all day.

I also don't see any reason why a predator couldn't have been prowling the area just on the hope he would run into a likely victim, and they just happened to have been the ones he spotted. Many predators are opportunists. They don't plan their crime, they just see a chance and take it.

It could be a trap, as you say. I don't see any evidence to eliminate that possibility. But the evidence doesn't eliminate any of the other options.
Click to expand...

Well said, and your second paragraph is a scenario I can definitely see happening.
 
SapphireSteel said:
Each of these examples (including Klunder) are of predators who either lured children, or hunted them actively.

Our predator didn't hunt or lure anyone.

Our predator sat and waited for some victims to stroll into his trap, like a spider with a fly.

This crime and the timelines only makes sense if the perp was already in place, waiting.

How did he know L&L were going to be along any minute?

This wasn't a random trap, IMO. Whoever it was knew the girls were going to be on that path at that time.

Answer the question "how did he know?" and you've got your perp.

:twocents: :moo: :cow:
Click to expand...


Predators, as do hunters, have different hunting strategies. Some still hunt, while others prefer to stalk hunt while using a lure to attract their prey.

In KS & DH's abduction, it is likely imo, that MJ Klunder observed them walking home from school and parked up the road ahead of their intended route..

Although MJK's plans were foiled due to DH's courageous escape. He traversed 5 different police jurisdictions during their abduction.. This calculation wasn't by accident. MJK, was very calculating, deflective, manipulative, creative, and more than likely very intelligent, imo...

Imo, if MJK is responsible for L & L's abduction, he would have bypassed Black Hawk State Park with them in captivity due to his familiarity with the more desolate 7 bridges park, probability of being spotted by a citizen or Park Ranger, and increased scrutiny due to its proximity to Evansdale..


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...ack+hawk+park+iowa&t=h&mra=ls&z=10&iwloc=ddw2

___________________________


http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ion/-/9357080/20256630/-/15qpb9x/-/index.html

Abduction timeline: Investigators retracing Shepard's day
 
:eek:fftopic: However, offers insight of the deviant mind of a person capable of abducting another human being - The 3 women disappeared separately between 2002 and 2004, when they were 14, 16 and 20 years old

lured one of them into his Cleveland home with the promise of a puppy for her son (May I add, 100% disregard for her son needing his mommy ... pure selfishness JMO)
"admits his disgusting and inhuman conduct" but "remains remorseless for his actions."
Castro has pleaded guilty to 937 counts, including kidnapping, rape, assault and aggravated murder. He's being sentenced Thursday :burn:

(comments BBM, snipped from link below)
http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-kidnapped-ohio-women-kept-diaries-003045958.html
 
B4igo2it said:
Lyric's prior behavior in the days prior lead me to believe she may have had a "crush" on a boy ... what I don't know is if HE had ulterior motives and these girls were not threatened or frightened to go with him. Did he meet them by the gate? Is he old enough to drive? The cousin of Aunt Tammy should be able to provide this information to LE.

Per Lyric's Mom: "A week before this, Lyric and her other cousin, Tammy`s daughter, K (ph), who were in Green Briar, which is another division of Waterloo, and they went walking to the park. They were gone for an extended amount of time. We went looking for them at the park, and they weren`t there. So we called the police. They -- right when I called the police they came walking up to the house. "

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...7/ijvm.01.html
BBM - where in the heck were they and were they talking to someone in particular?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think Lyric could have had a "crush" on a boy or was beginning to notice boys. However, whatever happened the week prior which had Aunt Tammy giving tips about stranger danger and to escape an abductor, I believe had more to do with Aunt Tammy's daughter being followed/meeting up with a "creepy" older person (CMF/JJB?). However, that person was known to Lyric. Same for Aunt Tammy's daughter. She would not have considered this person a threat.

Why did Elizabeth take her purse if the girls were going on a quick bike ride? Does not make sense to take her purse if the girls were going to ride around the block. It seems the girls would have told someone where they were going if they were leaving their known boundaries. :facepalm: Elizabeth taking her purse with her cell phone that she played games on and perhaps a little money indicates to me she knew she and Lyric were going somewhere specific. Whom did the girls encounter?

I have been thinking about the secondary crime scene as I do not believe the girls were killed at Meyers Lake nor at 7-Bridges. Somewhere is a second crime scene where the girls were killed. Was the empty house on Meyers Lake examined as a crime scene? Anybody wonder if The Depot in Gilbertville could be a secondary crime scene? I watched a video here someone was so kind to post regarding The Depot. Very creepy place and wide open for anyone to enter and leave at will. Lots of bikes that looked like anyone could "borrow" them for a ride. :eek: :pullhair: :HHJP:
 
skeet said:
Yes it is possible that he was confused but it appears that LE is taking his word for it because the 12:30 to 1:00 is used on their timeline, it was also put up on quite a few posters of the girls. It kind of makes sense, the time they left the house, next they are on their bikes on a video, IF they were seen between 12:30 and 1:00 it falls in line with the bikes being found at 2:00 with out them. IMO.
Click to expand...

I have always believed the lawn watering guy and even though his wife corrected him - I think he had a pretty good idea of the time he saw the girls. He and his wife knew Lizzie. His time makes sense to me too AND them being seen on their bikes on the video and then bikes being found at 2:00 w/o them. It seems that is about all we have, but I think the information is correct. I even think TG saw the girls' bikes. What happened to the girls happened quickly. Where were they taken immediately after they abducted? There is another crime scene, be it the perp/perps vehicle or a building.
 
Is there a link for Drew on KWWL yet? Thanking you in advance.
 
BunnyHop said:
What's The Depot?
Click to expand...

Hi BunnyHop! Good to see you this morning!

If you can view YouTube videos, this is the one that I watched:

Gilbertville Depot - YouTube

If you are unable to access the video, here is an article from KWWL dated July 7, 2012.


Gilbertville Depot celebrates 100th birthday Posted: Jul 07, 2012 3:19 PM CDT

Written by Diane Sandberg, Photojournalist

GILBERTVILLE (KWWL) - People gathered in Gilbertville Saturday to celebrate a birthday.

Not for someone - but for something.

The Gilbertville depot turns 100 years old Saturday.

The building was scheduled to be torn down earlier this year, but a non-profit group formed to preserve it.

Originally, the building was scheduled to be torn down, and a new bathrooms built along the Cedar Valley Nature Trail. However, the cost of a new facility would have been greater than the cost of remodeling the depot.

So the building has now made it to the 100-year mark.

Plans are in the works for the depot to have restrooms and fresh water for riders on the bike trail, and a community room is planned as well.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/18971810/gilber

I may be mistaken, but I believe the person who saw bikes on the bike trail and had to swerve to miss them would drive to Gilbertville and bike the trail from The Depot to Meyers Lake. From the video, a lot of bikes are stored there. The doors were open so anyone could access the building. Like I said, it's a creepy place. I would not store my bike there if you paid me. To me, it could have been the perfect place to take someone and not be detected. The community room is on the upper floor. If you BING and type in The Depot, Gilbertville Iowa, it will bring up lots of links.
 
Bootsctr said:
I have always believed the lawn watering guy and even though his wife corrected him - I think he had a pretty good idea of the time he saw the girls. He and his wife knew Lizzie. His time makes sense to me too AND them being seen on their bikes on the video and then bikes being found at 2:00 w/o them. It seems that is about all we have, but I think the information is correct. I even think TG saw the girls' bikes. What happened to the girls happened quickly. Where were they taken immediately after they abducted? There is another crime scene, be it the perp/perps vehicle or a building.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, IMO there are three crime scenes, Myers Lake, someplace private where he took them to die, then Seven Bridges. I think carbuff hit the nail on the head when she spoke of people who are opportunists. He saw the opportunity and acted upon it, it seemed everything was quick and convenient. I'm guessing/hoping that they did not suffer long after they were taken. Maybe they need to look at someone who "latches" onto other people lives in order to gain something. I lived with one of those, I won't go into a lot of detail, but after certain things came out he was not allowed to see his daughter till she was 21 years of age. He was never officially charged but that was enough for me to end our marriage. My lawyer actually called him an opportunist, afterwards I recounted certain events in our marriage and realized she had pinned the correct title on him.

As for your thoughts on the purse...we were never told by LE what was in the purse except for the phone. It made me wonder if there were any money in the purse, if there was, possibly the girls thought about stopping at the store for candy. Wish we knew what else might have been in the purse.
 
Bootsctr said:
Hi BunnyHop! Good to see you this morning!

If you can view YouTube videos, this is the one that I watched:

Gilbertville Depot - YouTube

If you are unable to access the video, here is an article from KWWL dated July 7, 2012.


Gilbertville Depot celebrates 100th birthday Posted: Jul 07, 2012 3:19 PM CDT

Written by Diane Sandberg, Photojournalist

GILBERTVILLE (KWWL) - People gathered in Gilbertville Saturday to celebrate a birthday.

Not for someone - but for something.

The Gilbertville depot turns 100 years old Saturday.

The building was scheduled to be torn down earlier this year, but a non-profit group formed to preserve it.

Originally, the building was scheduled to be torn down, and a new bathrooms built along the Cedar Valley Nature Trail. However, the cost of a new facility would have been greater than the cost of remodeling the depot.

So the building has now made it to the 100-year mark.

Plans are in the works for the depot to have restrooms and fresh water for riders on the bike trail, and a community room is planned as well.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/18971810/gilber

I may be mistaken, but I believe the person who saw bikes on the bike trail and had to swerve to miss them would drive to Gilbertville and bike the trail from The Depot to Meyers Lake. From the video, a lot of bikes are stored there. The doors were open so anyone could access the building. Like I said, it's a creepy place. I would not store my bike there if you paid me. To me, it could have been the perfect place to take someone and not be detected. The community room is on the upper floor. If you BING and type in The Depot, Gilbertville Iowa, it will bring up lots of links.
Click to expand...

https://www.facebook.com/GilbertvilleDepot

I just love old buildings. This one is beautiful, hope they restore and use it.

Any connection? I'm clueless. :blushing:
 
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