IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[threecrazykids]

Great find! I know by reading the older threads that LE was looking/questioning people regarding vehicles seen parked close the lake from the beginning.

Also from the article: "Police want to talk to whoever was in the white SUV or anyone who might know the person driving that vehicle on July 13. It was spotted three times between 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m., which is about when the girls were last seen.

Investigators are stressing that the person in the vehicle is not considered a suspect or suspicious person."


Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...20704918/-/vj8exdz/-/index.html#ixzz2hDYTEkyH

I also found this to be interesting:

“This is an SUV, a large SUV,” Smock said. “It has been described as an older model Chevy Suburban, — but we don’t know that for sure — boxy and definitely full sized.”

Smock said investigators have already received a number of phone calls following their request for the public’s assistance. “We have a lot of people calling in ... and we will follow up on all those calls,” he said. “But we are really looking for specific information.”

Hmmm...something very specific. Wonder what that would be. :waitasec:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Agree!!! I don't care if someone read my texts and most of my email. I mean, seriously. Why. Who would want to? They use search engines with complicated (or not) and what are they going to find? That I bought eggs on Tuesday? And yes, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you really have nothing to worry about. Might someone make things up about you and tell untruths? Possibly. But it's a waste of time to dwell on It.

Among many concerns I have is the security of information gathered. Assuming that the government itself would not use information for nefarious purposes leaves out the tens or hundreds of thousands of people who use identity theft in crimes.

For instance:

For the entire history of the IRS, there have been cases of individual IRS employees using their position to harass and bully others by selecting them for auditing, based on the individual grudge of the IRS employee rather than any evidence of wrongdoing and outside any random selection process.

There have been multiple database hacks and losses that revealed hundreds of thousands of people's birth dates and SS numbers. Much of that data theft goes on sale on the dark web within moments of acquisition. Why? Because having that information is valuable enough that various people will buy it. For instance, with those three pieces of information (name, birth date and SS number) someone can create an entire identity for themselves. Or use that same information to rob you blind.

A growing scandal are the repeated revelations of large information processing company employees looking up the records of acquaintances and celebrities. Think no harm could come from someone illegally reviewing your medical insurance records? Many employers are reluctant to hire someone with a chronic or expensive health condition and most employers run background checks on all applicants being given consideration for interviewing.

Even things like loyalty cards can reveal more than you might want other people to know about you. For instance, a large department store chain realised that certain patterns of purchases were common amongst women early in pregnancy (for instance, unscented shampoos). They used that information to send out discount coupons that included products used by pregnant women and new parents. Imagine you're trying to get pregnant or are newly pregnant and you are also looking for a new job. I think everyone realises it is interview suicide to reveal at the interview that you're newly pregnant or trying to get pregnant because even though employers are not supposed to discriminate, there is a high risk that they will. If that information was for sale about you, you may well find that you are getting fewer calls to interview than you reasonably expected. Is it really that there are so many people with better qualifications out there or is there some bit of information invisible to you attached to your name that causes potential employers to round file your resume? You don't have any way to know.

Just the location of regular purchases can reveal more about your life than you might want an employer to know. For instance, you always go grocery shopping on Friday evenings at a certain store. With information stolen from that store's purchase tracking database, someone could figure out that there is a small but significant bulge in shoppers at that time because a large AA meeting held next door ends just before that bulge in shoppers. And those shoppers never buy alcohol. Do you really want a potential employer to know that you are an alcoholic in recovery?

And then there are stalkers. You imply your purchase of eggs on Tuesday is of no import to anyone but yourself. If you have a stalker, your purchase of eggs on Tuesday is another piece of information about you that can suggest other ways to find more information about you. For instance, the name and address of the store where you purchased those eggs could point someone towards the general area you live. It can suggest something of your weekly routine. It even suggests information about your diet. If your stalker is the jealous type and realises that your purchase of eggs was out of your usual grocery shopping pattern, they may start looking to find a reason behind the unusual purchase.

I don't even need to get into the whole issue of government misappropriation of personal data because there are so many ways that various criminals can use it.

 

[palaminodee]

Agree!!! I don't care if someone read my texts and most of my email. I mean, seriously. Why. Who would want to? They use search engines with complicated (or not) and what are they going to find? That I bought eggs on Tuesday? And yes, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you really have nothing to worry about. Might someone make things up about you and tell untruths? Possibly. But it's a waste of time to dwell on It.

We supposedly live in a FREE COUNTRY!!
THIS IS NOT FREEDOM!
end of my opinion

 

[watcher9]

I also found this to be interesting:

“This is an SUV, a large SUV,” Smock said. “It has been described as an older model Chevy Suburban, — but we don’t know that for sure — boxy and definitely full sized.”

Smock said investigators have already received a number of phone calls following their request for the public’s assistance. “We have a lot of people calling in ... and we will follow up on all those calls,” he said. “But we are really looking for specific information.”

Hmmm...something very specific. Wonder what that would be. :waitasec:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

Copying from your same link but adding another sentence,

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

I'm glad we are back to reading old articles again.
Honing in on these two bike trail signs, does it seem like the article is implying that the signs are on Arbutus? On the map it looks like Arbutus is a short road. Would they have two signs on that road? Have we located these two bike trail signs? Could this person parked there have a good watching view of the bike trail around the lake to see who was coming down the trail?
If so, wouldn't that be a good position to drive closer and pounce?

 

[Bootsctr]

I also found this to be interesting:

“This is an SUV, a large SUV,” Smock said. “It has been described as an older model Chevy Suburban, — but we don’t know that for sure — boxy and definitely full sized.”

Smock said investigators have already received a number of phone calls following their request for the public’s assistance. “We have a lot of people calling in ... and we will follow up on all those calls,” he said. “But we are really looking for specific information.”

Hmmm...something very specific. Wonder what that would be. :waitasec:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

Just my opinion, but they are looking for a witness or witnesses that can identify the driver of this vehicle. I think LE has been looking for the driver for a while, but never released the description of the vehicle thinking that would help them. They thought if the VOI was not identified, the killer would feel more comfortable in that he had gotten away with "it". Apparently the task was overwhelming with the # of these type of vehicles they came up with. . . as in the more they looked the more of them they found. New eyes were appointed in the case and this person decided to release a VOI description being that at least 3 people had witnessed the same vehicle.

 

[Bootsctr]

Copying from your same link but adding another sentence,

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

I'm glad we are back to reading old articles again.
Honing in on these two bike trail signs, does it seem like the article is implying that the signs are on Arbutus? On the map it looks like Arbutus is a short road. Would they have two signs on that road? Have we located these two bike trail signs? Could this person parked there have a good watching view of the bike trail around the lake to see who was coming down the trail?
If so, wouldn't that be a good position to drive closer and pounce?

 

[Bootsctr]

Copying from your same link but adding another sentence,

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

I'm glad we are back to reading old articles again.
Honing in on these two bike trail signs, does it seem like the article is implying that the signs are on Arbutus? On the map it looks like Arbutus is a short road. Would they have two signs on that road? Have we located these two bike trail signs? Could this person parked there have a good watching view of the bike trail around the lake to see who was coming down the trail?
If so, wouldn't that be a good position to drive closer and pounce?

Looking for an image of the two bike trail signs. No luck yet. I did find an image of an older boxy type SUV that is NOT a Chevy or a Ford. I used to drive one, many moons ago for a short time - stick shift 4-wheel drive. It was sky blue. Very boxy though. Felt like I was driving a tank.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Looking for an image of the two bike trail signs. No luck yet. I did find an image of an older boxy type SUV that is NOT a Chevy or a Ford. I used to drive one, many moons ago for a short time - stick shift 4-wheel drive. It was sky blue. Very boxy though. Felt like I was driving a tank.

LOL. I drove an International Scout II back in my day too for a short while. That is an old one. Maybe 70's. They are actually small compared to a Suburban.

 

[Squeeze]

Among many concerns I have is the security of information gathered. Assuming that the government itself would not use information for nefarious purposes leaves out the tens or hundreds of thousands of people who use identity theft in crimes.

For instance:

For the entire history of the IRS, there have been cases of individual IRS employees using their position to harass and bully others by selecting them for auditing, based on the individual grudge of the IRS employee rather than any evidence of wrongdoing and outside any random selection process.

There have been multiple database hacks and losses that revealed hundreds of thousands of people's birth dates and SS numbers. Much of that data theft goes on sale on the dark web within moments of acquisition. Why? Because having that information is valuable enough that various people will buy it. For instance, with those three pieces of information (name, birth date and SS number) someone can create an entire identity for themselves. Or use that same information to rob you blind.

A growing scandal are the repeated revelations of large information processing company employees looking up the records of acquaintances and celebrities. Think no harm could come from someone illegally reviewing your medical insurance records? Many employers are reluctant to hire someone with a chronic or expensive health condition and most employers run background checks on all applicants being given consideration for interviewing.

Even things like loyalty cards can reveal more than you might want other people to know about you. For instance, a large department store chain realised that certain patterns of purchases were common amongst women early in pregnancy (for instance, unscented shampoos). They used that information to send out discount coupons that included products used by pregnant women and new parents. Imagine you're trying to get pregnant or are newly pregnant and you are also looking for a new job. I think everyone realises it is interview suicide to reveal at the interview that you're newly pregnant or trying to get pregnant because even though employers are not supposed to discriminate, there is a high risk that they will. If that information was for sale about you, you may well find that you are getting fewer calls to interview than you reasonably expected. Is it really that there are so many people with better qualifications out there or is there some bit of information invisible to you attached to your name that causes potential employers to round file your resume? You don't have any way to know.

Just the location of regular purchases can reveal more about your life than you might want an employer to know. For instance, you always go grocery shopping on Friday evenings at a certain store. With information stolen from that store's purchase tracking database, someone could figure out that there is a small but significant bulge in shoppers at that time because a large AA meeting held next door ends just before that bulge in shoppers. And those shoppers never buy alcohol. Do you really want a potential employer to know that you are an alcoholic in recovery?

And then there are stalkers. You imply your purchase of eggs on Tuesday is of no import to anyone but yourself. If you have a stalker, your purchase of eggs on Tuesday is another piece of information about you that can suggest other ways to find more information about you. For instance, the name and address of the store where you purchased those eggs could point someone towards the general area you live. It can suggest something of your weekly routine. It even suggests information about your diet. If your stalker is the jealous type and realises that your purchase of eggs was out of your usual grocery shopping pattern, they may start looking to find a reason behind the unusual purchase.

I don't even need to get into the whole issue of government misappropriation of personal data because there are so many ways that various criminals can use it.

All true, and somewhat alarming. I always get a bit uneasy when I'm jumping from website to website, say I check on toner prices at Staples and towels at Kohls, and on another website, an ad pops up to tell me that Staples has a coupon for toner, or towels are on sale at Kohls.

But anyone with access to this information could potentially use it for something sinister. But that would really need to be their intention in the first place. Someone randomly finding that I purchased eggs on Tuesday could form some sort of pattern, I suppose, if one existed. But chances are, it was a random thing, that may not speak to my routine whatsoever.

In my real job, I manage a database of local residents. At various times over the years, duplicate records (two John Smith's for example) have occurred. I use my investigative "skills" of other public information to determine if they are they same person. I check 411.com and the Black Hawk county real estate mapping to see if the addresses match up, our search the obits to see if they died. Separately, these things don't mean much, but you can find out some interesting things when they are combined. The real estate mapping reveals how much you paid for your home, what taxes to paid, whether or not you were in the military (military exemption), if you live there, etc. Other info on 411 besides address and phone number is who else is in your household. So the information is out there and in the case if addresses and phone numbers, always had been. It's just on a larger scale. I find it odd that you don't at least have to register for an account in BH County online.

So, I am aware of these things, and I'm sure there is more that I'm not aware of, but I guess I refuse to be paranoid about it. I can remember my dearly departed mother refusing to use her credit card online, because someone could steal it. But Mom, you're credit card is already online in a gigantic database. When you enter it, the website is checking it against another database. Securely we hope and pray, but it is already out there.

Speaking of Mom, I found her name, DOB, DOD, place of death and "Retired" SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER on a public website! I think it was wwe.Deathrecords.com. Good info for my job, but disturbing nonetheless.

Sorry so O/T....

 

[Squeeze]

Just my opinion, but they are looking for a witness or witnesses that can identify the driver of this vehicle. I think LE has been looking for the driver for a while, but never released the description of the vehicle thinking that would help them. They thought if the VOI was not identified, the killer would feel more comfortable in that he had gotten away with "it". Apparently the task was overwhelming with the # of these type of vehicles they came up with. . . as in the more they looked the more of them they found. New eyes were appointed in the case and this person decided to release a VOI description being that at least 3 people had witnessed the same vehicle.

What I'm reading now about the two sightings of this vehicle between 11:30 and 12:30 is the first I've heard. Can't believe I missed that little tidbit of information.

Just goes to show that LE isn't releasing ALL information. Some posters on here strongly imply that there was simply no more information to share. Clearly that is not the case. I agree that they are sharing bits and pieces in order to prompt more information to be given that someone might remember, without showing all of their cards.

 

[Foxfire]

What I'm reading now about the two sightings of this vehicle between 11:30 and 12:30 is the first I've heard. Can't believe I missed that little tidbit of information.

Just goes to show that LE isn't releasing ALL information. Some posters on here strongly imply that there was simply no more information to share. Clearly that is not the case. I agree that they are sharing bits and pieces in order to prompt more information to be given that someone might remember, without showing all of their cards.

The problem with investigators holding their cards close to their vest, is that the results are normally that the perp escapes justice, and the victim's photos end up on Missing persons or Cold Case Poker Cards:

https://www.google.com/search?q=col...gSo8IGgDw&ved=0CGIQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=667&dpr=1

 

[Bootsctr]

Copying from your same link but adding another sentence,

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found.

Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

I'm glad we are back to reading old articles again.
Honing in on these two bike trail signs, does it seem like the article is implying that the signs are on Arbutus? On the map it looks like Arbutus is a short road. Would they have two signs on that road? Have we located these two bike trail signs? Could this person parked there have a good watching view of the bike trail around the lake to see who was coming down the trail?
If so, wouldn't that be a good position to drive closer and pounce?

Hmmmm..... Perhaps the vehicle gave the appearance of someone "fishing" the lake and moving around to a different spot if the fishermen were not getting any bites. But, that is what made the vehicle stand out to the locals - no one fishes Meyers Lake from their vehicle. ?

 

[Bootsctr]

I found the wording in this article that 3ck linked yesterday to be "interesting":

All of three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.

Authorities hope this may ----->JOG <------- people's memory and they may get more information with this tip now out in the public.

"There (are) just a lot of reports, a lot of information to read through," said Mike Roehrkasse with the Iowa Department of Criminal Investigation. "Now that there's a little bit of a lull, we are able to start pouring through those reports and make those connections."

"I think, and I hope, that this is kind of the beginning," he added.

All three of the witnesses describe the vehicle as a large and clunky white SUV.

One of the witnesses described the SUV as an old-style boxy suburban.

Two of these witnesses came forward with this information during canvassing. The other tip came in several months later because the person thought someone had already brought this up.

"The one that kind of got the ball rolling was actually several months later. They didn't know if it would be important and that's kind of what we want to stress to the public is any piece of information can be important," said Roehrkasse.


Authorities want people to remember that, no matter the size or significance of the tip, it may be that key piece to the investigation.

If you have any tips, no matter how insignificant you believe them to be, authorities ask that you call the tip line at (319) 232-6682.

Tipsters can also email Our Missing Iowa Girls at dps.state.ia.us.

There is still a reward of more than $150,000 for information in the case.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

Remember the jogger. I assume that is one person that ID'd the white, clunky, older model SUV. The second is probably the bicyclist. Maybe the fishermen? Curious as to who the third person is that came in with the tip later that "got the ball rolling." Maybe it was someone who normally took their lunch at Meyers Lake, or perhaps one of the daycare workers.

 

[Bootsctr]

LOL. I drove an International Scout II back in my day too for a short while. That is an old one. Maybe 70's. They are actually small compared to a Suburban.

Very true. However, when I read the word "clunky" I definitely thought of my Scout.

 

[threecrazykids]

Hmmmm..... Perhaps the vehicle gave the appearance of someone "fishing" the lake and moving around to a different spot if the fishermen were not getting any bites. But, that is what made the vehicle stand out to the locals - no one fishes Meyers Lake from their vehicle. ?

I don't believe you could fish the lake from a vehicle. I do wonder if the area the vehicle was seen is a "typical" place to park though, if you were going to fish that side of the lake, so it wasn't suspicious.

Maybe the people in the white SUV also had someone scouting the lake on the paddleboat, watching for kids coming down the bike path?

 

[watcher9]

I went for a ride with Google maps on Arbutus going away from Maiden Lane and found what may be the two bike signs. One was yellow and one green.
The yellow one was first next to an empty lot(s) containing a cement slab for a mobile home or house. At the back of the lot you can see the bike trail.
The green one was right where the bike trail crosses Arbutus on the right going toward the lake. Following the bike trail across Arbutus on the left, it looks like it comes out by the skate park.
There are "no parking" signs on the right side of Arbutus so the vehicle must have been on the left side of the road facing toward Maiden Lane. If that were the case, he would have easily looked across the empty lot(s) and seen anyone on the bike trail going to and from the lake since the bike trail parallels the back of the lots.
So maybe he was watching the bike trail instead of the lake for his victim.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

All true, and somewhat alarming. I always get a bit uneasy when I'm jumping from website to website, say I check on toner prices at Staples and towels at Kohls, and on another website, an ad pops up to tell me that Staples has a coupon for toner, or towels are on sale at Kohls.

But anyone with access to this information could potentially use it for something sinister. But that would really need to be their intention in the first place. Someone randomly finding that I purchased eggs on Tuesday could form some sort of pattern, I suppose, if one existed. But chances are, it was a random thing, that may not speak to my routine whatsoever.

In my real job, I manage a database of local residents. At various times over the years, duplicate records (two John Smith's for example) have occurred. I use my investigative "skills" of other public information to determine if they are they same person. I check 411.com and the Black Hawk county real estate mapping to see if the addresses match up, our search the obits to see if they died. Separately, these things don't mean much, but you can find out some interesting things when they are combined. The real estate mapping reveals how much you paid for your home, what taxes to paid, whether or not you were in the military (military exemption), if you live there, etc. Other info on 411 besides address and phone number is who else is in your household. So the information is out there and in the case if addresses and phone numbers, always had been. It's just on a larger scale. I find it odd that you don't at least have to register for an account in BH County online.

So, I am aware of these things, and I'm sure there is more that I'm not aware of, but I guess I refuse to be paranoid about it. I can remember my dearly departed mother refusing to use her credit card online, because someone could steal it. But Mom, you're credit card is already online in a gigantic database. When you enter it, the website is checking it against another database. Securely we hope and pray, but it is already out there.

Speaking of Mom, I found her name, DOB, DOD, place of death and "Retired" SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER on a public website! I think it was wwe.Deathrecords.com. Good info for my job, but disturbing nonetheless.

Sorry so O/T....

But enlightening, I hope, for anyone thinking over the possibility that Elizabeth and/or Lyric were stalked online.

One form of reducing risk is making sure that the bits that aggregate into your personal information are not all in the same place. Spread it around that that someone who is trying to figure out the totality has to get into so many different databases that it isn't worth the effort for the average criminal.

Having the government collect all information about you defeats that security measure.

To bring it back on topic: Elizabeth could have been stalked online even though she did not apparently have any accounts of her own. Easy enough--just check her parents' accounts. She was young enough that information about where they were and their daily routines and habits would almost certainly involve Elizabeth.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

What I'm reading now about the two sightings of this vehicle between 11:30 and 12:30 is the first I've heard. Can't believe I missed that little tidbit of information.

Just goes to show that LE isn't releasing ALL information. Some posters on here strongly imply that there was simply no more information to share. Clearly that is not the case. I agree that they are sharing bits and pieces in order to prompt more information to be given that someone might remember, without showing all of their cards.

I think that the amount of information LE has is limited enough that every decision to release more has to go through a benefit to risk analysis. I think if LE had an abundance of evidence that releasing certain information such as cause of death would have been done by now.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I found the wording in this article that 3ck linked yesterday to be "interesting":


Remember the jogger. I assume that is one person that ID'd the white, clunky, older model SUV. The second is probably the bicyclist. Maybe the fishermen? Curious as to who the third person is that came in with the tip later that "got the ball rolling." Maybe it was someone who normally took their lunch at Meyers Lake, or perhaps one of the daycare workers.

Maybe someone who lives in the neighbourhood and saw an unfamiliar vehicle.

 

[cindersoot]

Hello friends, any news at all on anything?