IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

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Foxfire, Thank you for the link to the obit. Quite interesting. . . . the woodworking part esp. Wonder if that included custom cabinet making?
 
Just wanted to add vehicles in the railroad industry are typically white too, extended cab trucks, maybe some SUVs! I've just seen mostly white trucks here though with the railroad. Dang those white vehicles. I have only owned one white vehicle, Chevy Cavalier. Actually prefer dark-colored vehicles. I read once that East Coast people prefer darker-colored vehicles while your West Coast people prefer lighter colored vehicles. Not sure where I read that, but I found it interesting. Figured that makes me more of a East Coast type personality as far as car colors go. . .

Thinking about the killer again, I think he's old enough to have a driver's license.
 
roseofsharon said:
Amber Alert ... another white SUV type vehicle!

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...ued-for-possible-abduction-of-girl-in-newark/

The vehicle parked on a street near Meyers Lake (found on Google maps/August 2012) also had tinted windows and roof racks.
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Do you have a link saying the vehicle parked on Arbitus Street had tinted windows and roof racks because the Evansdale Missing Cousins Law Enforcement Update (06/24/2013) only described the witness information saying "white, older model, full-size SUV-type vehicle (Chevy Suburban, Ford Bronco, or similar)"? There is a place in Evansdale that does customization for vehicles. I suppose that would include window tinting. It would narrow down the vehicle of interest down a bit, or not. Thinking of the white SUV type vehicle with tinted windows 3CK posted a while back that belonged to a POI in another case. TTFN. :seeya:
 
I know there are cases where teenagers have killed...I could be wrong, but in my opinion I feel this person is older. I have felt that way from the beginning and more so now since so much time has passed without LE having a POI.

I don't want to put all teenagers in the same category, but some teenagers are, hate to use the term but, sloppy. I feel that a teenager would have left some sort of evidence at Myers Lake or Seven Bridges that would have connected them. I also feel some teenagers can't keep things to themselves and would probably tell someone about what they did or at least imply what they had done to another person.

Not saying LE does not have evidence, I'm saying what they may have is not enough to arrest someone. I feel the person who did this was very careful in their attempt to leave those crime scenes and not be noticed by anyone.

I have not searched on line, but the cases where young people have killed, what was the evidence that caused them to be arrested? I guess that would be some interesting reading.
 
skeet said:
I know there are cases where teenagers have killed...I could be wrong, but in my opinion I feel this person is older. I have felt that way from the beginning and more so now since so much time has passed without LE having a POI.

I don't want to put all teenagers in the same category, but some teenagers are, hate to use the term but, sloppy. I feel that a teenager would have left some sort of evidence at Myers Lake or Seven Bridges that would have connected them. I also feel some teenagers can't keep things to themselves and would probably tell someone about what they did or at least imply what they had done to another person.

Not saying LE does not have evidence, I'm saying what they may have is not enough to arrest someone. I feel the person who did this was very careful in their attempt to leave those crime scenes and not be noticed by anyone.

I have not searched on line, but the cases where young people have killed, what was the evidence that caused them to be arrested? I guess that would be some interesting reading.
Click to expand...

I feel the perp is older too again for the same reasons. I did not follow Jessica Ridgeway's case very close and I thought that her teen killer had purposefully left that wooden cross with her remains. Grainne Dhu's previous post regarding the cross said that he accidentally left it which means he was sloppy. There is one minor I would be interested in questioning, but he's a minor and related to the family and that's against TOS.

The placement of the bodies to me indicated this was someone older with experience in disposing of bodies too. Just a hunch.
 
Marilynilpa said:
Family celebrates Lyric's birthday:

"It's really hard everyday," said Wylma Cook, Lyric's grandmother. "It doesn't seem to get any easier."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/23596241/2013/10/02/family-remembers-lyric-cook-on-birthday
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Thank you so much for the link Marilyn. The video even worked for me! Yay! It was good to hear Wylma and Tammy speak. I believe I saw Misty, but she did not speak to the reporter. The island is looking very nice. The gazebos are pretty and once they put the concrete pathways in it will be very nice. It is peaceful as Tammy said. The purple balloons were beautiful. Happy Belated Birthday Lyric! You have not been forgotten at Websleuths either nor shall you! I hope they catch you and Elizabeth's killer soon. Your families deserve answers.
 
Bootsctr said:
I feel the perp is older too again for the same reasons. I did not follow Jessica Ridgeway's case very close and I thought that her teen killer had purposefully left that wooden cross with her remains. Grainne Dhu's previous post regarding the cross said that he accidentally left it which means he was sloppy. There is one minor I would be interested in questioning, but he's a minor and related to the family and that's against TOS.

The placement of the bodies to me indicated this was someone older with experience in disposing of bodies too. Just a hunch.
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Bootsctr, I agree that E & L were likely abducted/murdered by an older and experienced child predator. All indicators point to this, imo. I did follow JR's case closely and although her abductor 17-year-old Austin Reed Sigg, was very young. He was very intelligent, well read, and had escalated in deviant behavior beyond his years. ARS was a serial killer in training and had unsuccessfully experimented with the abduction/s of other prior victim/s as did MJK. ARS had a volatile juvenile criminal record which has yet to be released to the public.

RE: The placement of the bodies to me indicated this was someone older with experience in disposing of bodies too.
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Bootsctr, didn't we also have a discussion about possible posing of E & L's bodies months ago? Sorry, I can't remember..
 
My theory has always been - older, with at least one teenage accomplice.

Possibly two.

:cow:
 
Foxfire said:
Bootsctr, I agree that E & L were likely abducted/murdered by an older and experienced child predator. All indicators point to this, imo. I did follow JR's case closely and although her abductor 17-year-old Austin Reed Sigg, was very young. He was very intelligent, well read, and had escalated in deviant behavior beyond his years. ARS was a serial killer in training and had unsuccessfully experimented with the abduction/s of other prior victim/s as did MJK. ARS had a volatile juvenile criminal record which has yet to be released to the public.



Bootsctr, didn't we also have a discussion about possible posing of E & L's bodies months ago? Sorry, I can't remember..
Click to expand...

Personally I doubt they were posed.

They would have been found together if they were, not so far apart.

They were also dumped out of sight - which doesn't fit with posing. Posing is supposed to be seen, supposed to shock.

:cow:
 
skeet said:
I know there are cases where teenagers have killed...I could be wrong, but in my opinion I feel this person is older. I have felt that way from the beginning and more so now since so much time has passed without LE having a POI.

I don't want to put all teenagers in the same category, but some teenagers are, hate to use the term but, sloppy. I feel that a teenager would have left some sort of evidence at Myers Lake or Seven Bridges that would have connected them. I also feel some teenagers can't keep things to themselves and would probably tell someone about what they did or at least imply what they had done to another person.

Not saying LE does not have evidence, I'm saying what they may have is not enough to arrest someone. I feel the person who did this was very careful in their attempt to leave those crime scenes and not be noticed by anyone.

I have not searched on line, but the cases where young people have killed, what was the evidence that caused them to be arrested? I guess that would be some interesting reading.
Click to expand...

In the case of the Corey Parker killing, the perp acted oddly at work for several days after the killing. He didn't say anything about the killing but he was nervous and they thought he was drinking (at 17). He moved to Texas shortly after the killing. His former co-workers didn't connect the dots until there was a spurt of media interest when a reward was offered for information about her killing.

By the time his name was turned into the tip line, he had settled in Maryland, had a job and seemed like a normal young man getting established in life. When investigators went to interview him, their focus really sharpened when he refused to give a DNA sample.

He had no previous criminal history (was never busted for underage drinking) and apparently never talked to anyone about his crime.

For all that he was only 17, he wore gloves when he broke in and only left one hair and one smear of his own blood. He stabbed her 101 times, most of the stab wounds inflicted post mortem. It was an extremely bloody scene which seemed to indicate a level of rage and yet he had the presence of mind to leave minimal evidence.

Unlike Austin Reed Sigg (Jessica Ridgway case), Robert Denney does not appear to have committed any assaults or murders before Corey Parker or in the two years afterward.
 
Foxfire said:
Bootsctr, I agree that E & L were likely abducted/murdered by an older and experienced child predator. All indicators point to this, imo. I did follow JR's case closely and although her abductor 17-year-old Austin Reed Sigg, was very young. He was very intelligent, well read, and had escalated in deviant behavior beyond his years. ARS was a serial killer in training and had unsuccessfully experimented with the abduction/s of other prior victim/s as did MJK. ARS had a volatile juvenile criminal record which has yet to be released to the public.



Bootsctr, didn't we also have a discussion about possible posing of E & L's bodies months ago? Sorry, I can't remember..
Click to expand...

Yes, we did discuss the possible posing of the bodies. It seems we discussed it again not too long ago. Oh yeah! I remember now - I was kind of shocked they released the aerial photos of the body locations, but then again I think that information might have come out by the people who discovered the bodies.

Off topic: US Capitol on lockdown. There's been shooting. Good grief! :facepalm:
 
Grainne Dhu said:
In the case of the Corey Parker killing, the perp acted oddly at work for several days after the killing. He didn't say anything about the killing but he was nervous and they thought he was drinking (at 17). He moved to Texas shortly after the killing. His former co-workers didn't connect the dots until there was a spurt of media interest when a reward was offered for information about her killing.

By the time his name was turned into the tip line, he had settled in Maryland, had a job and seemed like a normal young man getting established in life. When investigators went to interview him, their focus really sharpened when he refused to give a DNA sample.

He had no previous criminal history (was never busted for underage drinking) and apparently never talked to anyone about his crime.

For all that he was only 17, he wore gloves when he broke in and only left one hair and one smear of his own blood. He stabbed her 101 times, most of the stab wounds inflicted post mortem. It was an extremely bloody scene which seemed to indicate a level of rage and yet he had the presence of mind to leave minimal evidence.

Unlike Austin Reed Sigg (Jessica Ridgway case), Robert Denney does not appear to have committed any assaults or murders before Corey Parker or in the two years afterward.
Click to expand...

101 stab wounds! That's astounding! Incomprehensible! And only left one hair. He got lucky for a while. Glad they caught him. ARS scared the YKW out of me! I think that is one reason I did not follow that case too closely because he really was growing into the boogey man!
 
I watched a case regarding Sharon Bloom on Motives and Murders - cracking the case. There were 2 suspects in her death - a co-worker and a recently released RSO. Only one hair was recovered from her body. LE was not even sure there had been a sexual assault. The RSO ended up killing himself and there was a problem with getting a court order for DNA from the co-worker, Stephan Zanter, and the RSO even though he killed himself. I am going to watch it again. It reminded me of Klunder and his DNA.
 
Bootsctr said:
101 stab wounds! That's astounding! Incomprehensible! And only left one hair. He got lucky for a while. Glad they caught him. ARS scared the YKW out of me! I think that is one reason I did not follow that case too closely because he really was growing into the boogey man!
Click to expand...

If it weren't for the subsequent publicity when the reward was offered and his former co-workers remembering him acting oddly around the same time, he may never have been caught.

It still amazes me that he was questioned twice as part of the routine neighbourhood canvass and never raised a bit of doubt.

Then again, he was 17, had no previous criminal record and since police knew the killing took place sometime between 3 am and 5 am, it probably didn't seem too unlikely that he just slept through the whole thing. All the other neighbours did. The two killing wounds were slashes to the carotid arteries and she died relatively quickly, so there probably wasn't a lot of noise.

If he'd stayed out of trouble (or never been caught) he would never have been caught for Corey Parker's murder. They had a DNA profile but not an identity that matched it.

The calculation of it all just astounds me. He left the door to the apartment locked and left through the kitchen window so that to a casual eye from the outside, everything looked normal.
 
There have been some discussions about whether a teen/teens could have abducted/killed Lizzie and Lyric, and Austin Sigg has been mentioned. Here is an article about him -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tin-Sigg-*advertiser censored*-obsession.html

snip

At age 16, Sigg has developed an obsession with hard-core child *advertiser censored* and spent a year watching violent videos depicting kids being tortured and raped, Denver Post reported.
 
Ugh, I keep running across more stories about teenage killers without even looking for them. It's like mentally deciding to get a dog and then, suddenly, having dogs galore offered to you.

Latest find was the case of the triple homicide of the Haines family in Pennsylvania. Tom Haines, his wife Lisa and their son Kevin (16) were stabbed to death in the middle of the night. Their daughter Maggie Haines was home from college just the day before, was awakened by a loud scream, smelled blood, went into her parents' bedroom and her mother sent her for help.

The first potential suspect was Maggie because she managed to get out of the house without even seeing the killer and she seemed calm, almost flippant, when she was making her statement to police. She was ruled out almost immediately and her "odd" manner was caused by emotional shock (yeah, I'd be shocked too, to say the least).

LE interviewed a bunch of people and could not find anyone who had a bad word to say about any of the family. Kevin was shy but very intelligent, a member of the school's Scholastic Bowl team and only had a few close friends. Lisa taught pre-school in their church and Tom was the manager of an industrial supplies company branch office. Tom had had to give a warning to one of his employees about 2 weeks before he was killed but that employee had an airtight alibi, complete with receipts and restaurant video backing it up.

There were only two pieces of forensic evidence in the case: the killer's footprints in blood and a hat found in the Haines' family backyard with bloodstains from the three victims and DNA from hairs of an unknown male subject on it. No CODIS matches.

There were two false confessions in the case that seemed plausible at first but neither one matched the evidence upon examination.

A month after the killings, LE got two anonymous tips that Alec Kreider, a 16 year old and one of Kevin Haines' close friends, had spoken of getting away with murder. He had already been interviewed and the interviewer found nothing suspicious about him. He was also a straight A student, a member of the school Scholastic Bowl team and no previous criminal record.

At around the same time LE got the tips, Alec Kreider threatened to commit suicide and his parents had him placed in an in-patient psychiatric facility for evaluation. During one of their visits, Kreider became emotional, spoke with his therapist alone and then confessed to his parents.

Kreider pled guilty to three counts of murder in the first degree and is serving 3 life sentences without chance of parole.

Why did he do it? The evidence for motive is in his journals. He had been writing for years about how he did not feel it would be wrong to kill in cold blood. A few weeks before he killed the Haines family, he wrote that he hated happy people. As Kevin's friend, he had been a frequent visitor to their home and the Haines family was very close and, from all accounts, very happy.

Maggie Haines apparently escaped because Kreider did not know she was home from college that weekend. Her parents were stabbed in their sleep but Kevin fought for his life and it was his screams that woke his sister.

Kreider had already successfully avoided suspicion by LE. Who would suspect a 16 year old of brutally stabbing to death three people and then crying at his best friend's funeral a few days later? If he had been just a little more cold blooded and kept his mouth shut, he would have evaded suspicion altogether.

There's a bunch of articles about the crime but this is a summary:

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/223250_What-happened-on-night-of-murders.html
 
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