IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

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Grainne Dhu said:
Ugh, I keep running across more stories about teenage killers without even looking for them. It's like mentally deciding to get a dog and then, suddenly, having dogs galore offered to you.

Latest find was the case of the triple homicide of the Haines family in Pennsylvania. Tom Haines, his wife Lisa and their son Kevin (16) were stabbed to death in the middle of the night. Their daughter Maggie Haines was home from college just the day before, was awakened by a loud scream, smelled blood, went into her parents' bedroom and her mother sent her for help.

The first potential suspect was Maggie because she managed to get out of the house without even seeing the killer and she seemed calm, almost flippant, when she was making her statement to police. She was ruled out almost immediately and her "odd" manner was caused by emotional shock (yeah, I'd be shocked too, to say the least).

LE interviewed a bunch of people and could not find anyone who had a bad word to say about any of the family. Kevin was shy but very intelligent, a member of the school's Scholastic Bowl team and only had a few close friends. Lisa taught pre-school in their church and Tom was the manager of an industrial supplies company branch office. Tom had had to give a warning to one of his employees about 2 weeks before he was killed but that employee had an airtight alibi, complete with receipts and restaurant video backing it up.

There were only two pieces of forensic evidence in the case: the killer's footprints in blood and a hat found in the Haines' family backyard with bloodstains from the three victims and DNA from hairs of an unknown male subject on it. No CODIS matches.

There were two false confessions in the case that seemed plausible at first but neither one matched the evidence upon examination.

A month after the killings, LE got two anonymous tips that Alec Kreider, a 16 year old and one of Kevin Haines' close friends, had spoken of getting away with murder. He had already been interviewed and the interviewer found nothing suspicious about him. He was also a straight A student, a member of the school Scholastic Bowl team and no previous criminal record.

At around the same time LE got the tips, Alec Kreider threatened to commit suicide and his parents had him placed in an in-patient psychiatric facility for evaluation. During one of their visits, Kreider became emotional, spoke with his therapist alone and then confessed to his parents.

Kreider pled guilty to three counts of murder in the first degree and is serving 3 life sentences without chance of parole.

Why did he do it? The evidence for motive is in his journals. He had been writing for years about how he did not feel it would be wrong to kill in cold blood. A few weeks before he killed the Haines family, he wrote that he hated happy people. As Kevin's friend, he had been a frequent visitor to their home and the Haines family was very close and, from all accounts, very happy.

Maggie Haines apparently escaped because Kreider did not know she was home from college that weekend. Her parents were stabbed in their sleep but Kevin fought for his life and it was his screams that woke his sister.

Kreider had already successfully avoided suspicion by LE. Who would suspect a 16 year old of brutally stabbing to death three people and then crying at his best friend's funeral a few days later? If he had been just a little more cold blooded and kept his mouth shut, he would have evaded suspicion altogether.

There's a bunch of articles about the crime but this is a summary:

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/223250_What-happened-on-night-of-murders.html
Click to expand...

That is very chilling - and emphasizes that evil can exist in all ages.
 
It sure does. I can't imagine the horror of the last face I see is the face of a 'friend' as they are brutally taking my life.
 
FYI - AMBER Alert - America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response - OFF LINE

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/
The information and statements contained on this official US Department of Justice AMBER Alert website shall not be used for the purposes of advertising (UNAVAILABLE DUE TO LACK OF FUNDING)
 
Foxfire said:
FYI - AMBER Alert - America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response - OFF LINE

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/
The information and statements contained on this official US Department of Justice AMBER Alert website shall not be used for the purposes of advertising (UNAVAILABLE DUE TO LACK OF FUNDING)
Click to expand...

Awesome. Maybe if I hold MY breath until other people turn blue, I will get my way, too.

Jeebus. I teach 3 year olds with better conflict resolution skills. And more empathy for other people's plights. :stormingmad:
 
Bootsctr said:
Do you have a link saying the vehicle parked on Arbitus Street had tinted windows and roof racks because the Evansdale Missing Cousins Law Enforcement Update (06/24/2013) only described the witness information saying "white, older model, full-size SUV-type vehicle (Chevy Suburban, Ford Bronco, or similar)"? There is a place in Evansdale that does customization for vehicles. I suppose that would include window tinting. It would narrow down the vehicle of interest down a bit, or not. Thinking of the white SUV type vehicle with tinted windows 3CK posted a while back that belonged to a POI in another case. TTFN. :seeya:
Click to expand...

Quite some time ago, using Google maps, I was searching the streets of Evansdale, IA (streets located right near Meyers Lake) and there was an older model white Chev SUV with tinted back windows and roof racks parked in a driveway on a street right near Meyers Lake.

I don't know if the SUV I saw and the one the witness reported seeing parked on Arbutus are the same vehicle.

I can't post the address due to WS TOS. I have provided the address to a couple of WS members whom have requested the address through PM.

PM me if you would like to take a look at the vehicle I saw. The picture with G Maps was taken in August 2012.

The tinted back window had streaks on it that appeared to be from the inside of the vehicle about the width of possibly a finger, just imo.
 
superbee said:
It sure does. I can't imagine the horror of the last face I see is the face of a 'friend' as they are brutally taking my life.
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He died a hero in my eyes. By fighting for his life and screaming, he undoubtedly saved his sister's life. In her victim impact statement, Maggie Haines said she felt guilty because she wasn't able to protect her younger brother. I think that if her brother could speak up, he'd tell her that he was overjoyed he was able to help protect her life.

Something I have found chilling is how efficient some of these teenage killers were, leaving very little in the way of forensic evidence behind them. And being so young, they are unlikely to be in the CODIS system because they are unlikely to have been charged with a serious crime. In several cases, murder was the very first crime they committed.
 
24Roses said:
http://www.kwwl.com/story/23629387/2013/10/07/police-8-year-old-new-hartford-girl-nearly-abducted OT-this is about a half an hour from Evansdale. The "farmer's cap" description is kind of kind interesting to me.
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I am so glad this 8 y/o had the sense to run from this predator and go straight to her mom and the wits to remember the description details.
Or, was there a witness?

I too wondered about the farmer's cap description. Years before, Amber Hagerman was taken by a man in a cowboy hat. Do they mean a ball cap with a farm design on it? Some type of headwear that a farmer might wear, like a straw hat? A name brand?
http://www.usfarmer.com/shop/catalog/u.s.-farmer-hats-252-1.html

I hope Evansdale and Black Hawk County are paying attention to the descriptions in these near abduction cases and are trying to link them to sightings they may have on the surveillance videos.

Better yet, they could release these videos to the public and we would gladly help them out.
 
Society is starting to realize the great benefit of surveillance camera's, the importance of teaching children to be aware of their surroundings, and how often our children are preyed upon! It is sickening. We have to arm ourselves with knowledge for this battle because there are people out there who think it is okay to take & harm our precious children! Unfortunately, it does not end with L & E, Kathlynn, Evelyn Miller, and on and on and on and on. :scared:
 
watcher9 said:
I am so glad this 8 y/o had the sense to run from this predator and go straight to her mom and the wits to remember the description details.
Or, was there a witness?

I too wondered about the farmer's cap description. Years before, Amber Hagerman was taken by a man in a cowboy hat. Do they mean a ball cap with a farm design on it? Some type of headwear that a farmer might wear, like a straw hat? A name brand?
http://www.usfarmer.com/shop/catalog/u.s.-farmer-hats-252-1.html

I hope Evansdale and Black Hawk County are paying attention to the descriptions in these near abduction cases and are trying to link them to sightings they may have on the surveillance videos.

Better yet, they could release these videos to the public and we would gladly help them out.
Click to expand...

In Iowa, a farmer's cap is usually what other places call a baseball cap. They often have the logo of a farm implement or seed company on them and are given out as promo items, hence the name farmer's caps.

Cowboy hats are not that common in Iowa except among horseback riders. Straw hats are more likely to be seen on women.
 
In re-reading some of the articles I noticed this (and hadn't before).

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...nce/-/9357080/20704918/-/vj8exdz/-/index.html

SBM

Witnesses reported to authorities an older, box-style SUV at three different locations on or near Arubutus Avenue.

So, this person moved their vehicle along Arbutus (and possibly other side streets)?

I wonder if there were other children that frequented that area unattended and they were waiting for them to be outside...or if that road is an easy place to park where it may appear you were at the lake.

I guess my next question would be how late in the day did they see that vehicle still parked there?
 
Fukiyama said:
Treating the symptom instead of the disease... But that's another thread.
Click to expand...

ITA.

What bothers me about the gun lobby who say the same thing too - it's not the guns, it's the people who shoot them.

If anyone can figure out a way to fix all human failings and sins, let us know.

Until then, don't sell guns to any loony at walmart, and keep up with the security cameras. :rockon:

I seriously believe that it's not too far away when every crime will be recorded, somewhere...or every single abduction in public, at least.

There already is frightening Big Brother capabilities out there, satellites etc.

The "eye in the sky" helicopters are so high that you don't even hear or see them, at times...but they can see you.

Bring it on, I say. The more security in this violent world, the better. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

:twocents:
 
SapphireSteel said:
ITA.

What bothers me about the gun lobby who say the same thing too - it's not the guns, it's the people who shoot them.

If anyone can figure out a way to fix all human failings and sins, let us know.

Until then, don't sell guns to any loony at walmart, and keep up with the security cameras. :rockon:

I seriously believe that it's not too far away when every crime will be recorded, somewhere...or every single abduction in public, at least.

There already is frightening Big Brother capabilities out there, satellites etc.

The "eye in the sky" helicopters are so high that you don't even hear or see them, at times...but they can see you.

Bring it on, I say. The more security in this violent world, the better. If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

:twocents:
Click to expand...

I'm British and I can't get my head around gun ownership in America. It astounds me that people can buy assault rifles and keep them in their homes. I just don't get the passion the pro-gun community have for these horrific weapons.

Back on topic, it's great that the family are keeping the tragic killing of these two lovely little girls in the media. Someone has to know something.
 
Fukiyama said:
If you honestly believe that, I pity you.
Click to expand...

You are too smart to be a conspiracy theorist!

I'm not, mainly because I've worked in all levels of gubmint and I know they can barely find their butt with both hands, when it comes to donkey work and filing (including electronic filing).

"Big Brother" would be totally beyond most government worker's capabilities (I include management :D) when most of them can barely organise an office coffee run. Administratively speaking that is.

BB is an administrative nightmare. Things will be recorded yes, but no one will ever view them...kind of like a blog. Something like 9 out of every 10 words on the internet are never, ever read, by anybody, it would be the same with any mass surveillance. Just too much to even contemplate when half the time they won't even cough up the cash for a new stapler. :p

One gubmint I worked in refused to buy printer ink because we'd used up our budget....! And we were all posting letters all day! :banghead:
 
SapphireSteel said:
You are too smart to be a conspiracy theorist!

I'm not, mainly because I've worked in all levels of gubmint and I know they can barely find their butt with both hands, when it comes to donkey work and filing (including electronic filing).

"Big Brother" would be totally beyond most government worker's capabilities (I include management :D) when most of them can barely organise an office coffee run. Administratively speaking that is.

BB is an administrative nightmare. Things will be recorded yes, but no one will ever view them...kind of like a blog. Something like 9 out of every 10 words on the internet are never, ever read, by anybody, it would be the same with any mass surveillance. Just too much to even contemplate when half the time they won't even cough up the cash for a new stapler. :p

One gubmint I worked in refused to buy printer ink because we'd used up our budget....! And we were all posting letters all day! :banghead:
Click to expand...

Agree!!! I don't care if someone read my texts and most of my email. I mean, seriously. Why. Who would want to? They use search engines with complicated (or not) and what are they going to find? That I bought eggs on Tuesday? And yes, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you really have nothing to worry about. Might someone make things up about you and tell untruths? Possibly. But it's a waste of time to dwell on It.
 
threecrazykids said:
In re-reading some of the articles I noticed this (and hadn't before).

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...nce/-/9357080/20704918/-/vj8exdz/-/index.html

SBM

Witnesses reported to authorities an older, box-style SUV at three different locations on or near Arubutus Avenue.

So, this person moved their vehicle along Arbutus (and possibly other side streets)?

I wonder if there were other children that frequented that area unattended and they were waiting for them to be outside...or if that road is an easy place to park where it may appear you were at the lake.

I guess my next question would be how late in the day did they see that vehicle still parked there?
Click to expand...

Great find! I know by reading the older threads that LE was looking/questioning people regarding vehicles seen parked close the lake from the beginning.

Also from the article: "Police want to talk to whoever was in the white SUV or anyone who might know the person driving that vehicle on July 13. It was spotted three times between 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m., which is about when the girls were last seen.

Investigators are stressing that the person in the vehicle is not considered a suspect or suspicious person."


Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...20704918/-/vj8exdz/-/index.html#ixzz2hDYTEkyH
 
Sorry, o/t ish, but this seems like something to keep in mind imo.Wonder what kind of car they drove?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/10/08/21181431.html

"BIRMINGHAM - Four people found dead on a rural Alabama road in a suspected murder-suicide were under investigation on suspicion of child sexual exploitation, investigators said.

The four bodies were found in a car on a logging road in Winston County, Alabama.

All four lived at the same address in Savannah, Tennessee, and fled after the FBI seized their computers and cameras during a search in September, Winston County Sheriff Rick Harris said on Tuesday.

"In my personal opinion, these are just four more wolves out of our world," said Harris".
 
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